Interesting observation in a thread on a fancy BH over on bowsite side….

The thought was that this head is so sharp and stays so sharp during pass-through that they don’t stretch the hide much, which results in a smaller exit wound and a thinner blood trail.

I did notice that the old Thunderheads cut a very large exit, with that chisel point.

Whaddya think?

I think they have it backwards.

I think they have it backwards.

Never to sharp. I want it to slice like going threw hot butter.

As with a shaving cut the sharper cut is much harder to staunch the bleeding from, because the coagulant released is to some extent related to the cell damage. Less damage, for the same channel, more bleeding. Though the real damage is puncturing two lungs.

Razor sharp is not one thing, it is many things. So you can get razor sharp on around 6K stones, but they make them up to at least 30K grit. What really counts is actually getting to the 6 or 8K along the whole edge. Overthinking it, if that costs base sharpeness is counter productive.

With BHs, to me the ideal is a head that shaves hair, and is super easy to sharpen with a few strokes. Hyper sharp is not buying us extra. Speed is also a factor. We test the heads on, say, our arm hair at a slow cutting pace. Ripping along at 200 fps, they are massively more effective.

So get that baseline sharpness; good cutting geometry, and speed, it will work every time.

With a compound and heavy arrow you could put an orange on the end of an arrow and get penetration.

We need more efficiency with our gear. At least I do. I don’t draw a lot of weight. I’m physically capable of drawing more weight, but don’t shoot as well that way. So I need every advantage available. Sharp for me thanks.

I always sharpen my heads till they shave. Right or wrong, that’s just how I’ve always done it.

The sharper the better the more you can cut small blood vessels the better it’s a no brainer

Did Frisky write it? You want to lacerate everything (hopefully vital organs, arteries, hide, etc.) in the arrow's path, not "stretch" it.

There is sharp enough, but there is no such thing as "too sharp"! That's like too much money or too much fun.

Seriously, we've had surgeons explain on here why sharper is better.

You can never have a broadhead to sharp. A razor sharp broadhead will give the best penetration.

"What's a y" think?"..too sharp? That's stupid.

B T x2

I have never sharpened a broadhead sharp enough for me even though they can save hair.

Yep , too sharp? Too stupid.

to sharp or not to sharp, too sharp or not too sharp or, two sharp or not two sharp. what's life w/o choices.

I get mine to shave the hair on my arm. After that I do not worry about it. I think guys would. be more successful if they practiced more and found a good place to hunt instead of worrying about their equipment so much. I learned that a long long time ago

The sharper the better but there is only so much I'm willing to do. I make a sharp working edge, like a butcher knife, and I'm done. I've cut myself good, twice, on Grandpa's butcher knives. It's no joke.

My single bevels came scary sharp and it's easy to keep them that way.

The old "too sharp" argument was around in the 60s with lots of guys sitting around on logs sharpening their Bear Razorheads with files.

Razor sharp is needed only where shaving is done at less than 190fps. :)

The question was asked about the Iron Will broadhead, what are field experiences with this broadhead and blood trails. The answers were, not good blood trails. The reasons, too sharp, and so, no hide stretch and causing small entrance and exit holes. Those broadheads are expensive and have a cult following. I would hype the hell out of them too if I spent that much on a broadhead. I'll stick with proven, less expensive broadheads I can easily sharpen myself.

I want them shaving-@$$ scary sharp, and stout and durable, and thats easy enough to do, but my intent is not to shave hair. My intent is to kill them... silently, incredibly fast, efficiently, painlessly, and with minimal stress. I feel I owe them that. Ahh, the Tender Carnivore. Good book, by the way :)

If you think about what a good, sharp broadhead does in the millisecond that it is alloted to perform. And if we do our part, these beautiful animals can drop in sight, in just a few seconds, with minimal, if any pain or stress. That's impressive. We should all be so lucky when our death time comes. I feel for them, care deeply for them... and I appreciate being an effective bow weilding predator. Many of us have spent a lifetime honing these skills. But regardless of experience or skill level, we have the ability to cause a painless efficient death, or terrible suffering... and that invariably comes with great responsibility.

Baby saph x2

Don't wish to challenge the conventional wisdom of the site experts, but, back in the early 1980's one of my first projects as a young post graduate researcher was to perform a biomechanical analysis of tissue separation following surgical incision and investigate the effect it may have on tissue repair and healing.

Long story short ... the sharper the blade passing through human tissue the less damage the tissue experienced with reduced blood loss and improved healing and survival rates. I suspect Cervidae tissue is very similar. Just sayin'.

Being as sharp as possible is great but having a little serration from a file can be better. Fred Bear preferred that edge.

The sharper the instrument the less trauma to vessels. The less trauma the less signal for clotting, the more bleeding. The less trauma to the animal the less they run. The less they run & the more they bleed, the shorter the blood drail. Often a trail is not even needed. Several posts on recent threads have mentioned watching them lay down. The cleaner the cut the better the healing in the event it was not a mortal wound. No down side to sharper. >>>>-----> Ken

The guy who started the bow site thread is probably a (secret) marketer for the broadhead. If not, as my dad used to say, "he's goofy in the head."

As many on here have already noted, there just is no down side to as sharp as possible.

Too, any broadhead, regardless of steel quality, will dull in the quiver over time. I don't believe the assertion that the head doesn't dull going through a critter. Not much perhaps, and certainly not much if it goes through mostly soft tissue, but it's not going to come out the other side of the critter as sharp as it went in if it hits bone. May still be sharp, but not as sharp.

What Ken and Jerry said. Read em again.

Meanwhile Fred Bear kill deer with a file sharpened BH, not 6000 grit stone.

And Zog killed them with knapped stone and clubbed them to death...... so...

what

But don’t forget, Jeff… A properly knapped stone head is actually much sharper than it is even possible to get steel to be.

JMO, bleeding is more important than blood on the ground.

It does make sense to me that a super-sharp blade could make smaller holes than one with more resistance to penetration; in principle that MIGHT make it take a shade longer for the lungs to deflate. But to Jeff’s point, the sharper blade seems to deliver less of a thump.

And while a chisel-point might stretch the hide to crease a bigger hole, I’m not convinced that it would be any larger through the wall of the chest, so while a big hole through the hide may look impressive, I’m not sure that it would make any difference.

So I guess I will just keep getting my heads as sharp as I can.

Just kinda curious what you guys were thinking…..

Can never be to sharp.

Stretching the tissue as it is being cut, absolutely does create a wider slit/cut. No argument there.

But, to argue "against" sharp (as sharp as you can get them) is just plain old silly.

I want mine as sharp as I can get them, and "that" in & of itself has "always" proven to yield the best results for me.

A little concavity to the geometry of the blades will do all the tissue stretching you'll ever need.

Even the offset angle of the blades getting wider from point to rear is going to create some tissue stretch as it is being cut.

I don't recall "ever" having a hole/cut through an animal with a broadhead, where the hole wasn't larger, than the broadhead diameter. My broadheads shave even fine hair, and often they still shave "after" the shot.

The debate you are reading over there, is just someone looking for an excuse, or someone trying to promote a new product with BS. It's as simple as that

Rick

Besides how would you judge or regulate the stretch. Just as likely to not punch threw. Bullets are often found just under the hide on the off side. Slow motion shows the hide bulged way out then snapped back. Bullet wasn't sharp enough or didn't have enough velocity????? >>>----> Ken

I don't understand why this question was even asked!

There's no such thing as "too" sharp!

I don't know what kind of anemic bullet would do that. My .270 leaves a .27 caliber hole going in and a 3" hole on the other side.

A file would leave a burr, not serrations. Burrs clog with hair, gristle, and fat. Just because Fred did it doesn't make it better.

Can never be too sharp but if it shaves hair it will work

I get it sharp with a file, and then use the steel/ceramic and leather strop to get it razor sharp. I also carry a small Gerber folding pocket steel in the woods with me. It's my version of a "Fidget Spinner"!

Smaller faster calibers or the animal being over 300 yards away with a light for caliber bullet. >>>--->Ken

No such thing as to sharp.

Here's another way to look at it...

If you had to chose between too sharp, and too dull, which would you choose?

it becomes too sharp when your finger gets in the way

Not to belabor the point but it has been reported that over 50 percent of bowhunting hits strike bone. I would thing that a scalpel edge could lose it's edge quicker than a serrated edge. Think of a steak knife. It cuts meat well and never seems to dull. A scalpel edge it's a thinner metal thickness it would lose it's edge quicker. This could be just theory but it does make sense.

I’m not sure I agree with his point but have claimed that the tanto point on the grizzly head created a better exit. I believe it stretches the hide before cutting. The cut on contact head like a zwikie always gave be a smaller cut.

A steak knife is dull to start with works like a saw. They are used by restaurants so they don't have to have someone sit around & sharpen knives. Besides giving someone a shaving sharp knife would open them up to lawsuits. Then there is the toss them all in the dishwasher together thing.

A broad head does not have time or the reverse motion to saw. It makes one quick trip & needs to be very sharp to get all the work done in one quick pass. >>>----> Ken

Good point Ken. The analogy of a steak knife was a bad one!

Zwickey, never measured the exit.

Best way for penatration is less resistance. Razer sharp. Less clotting Also. Hitting the right spot is key. Old saying hit them low watch them go, hit them hi watch them die.

think that saying is for Turkeys

Yep

[[[ Andy Man: "think that saying is for Turkeys" ]]]

Yep.

Rick

I would much rather hit them too low then too high. And I am of the old school of as sharp as I can get them with a file. I don't use a stone. And I prefer a chisel or rounded point instead of a needle-sharp point. I like a 2-blade head without bleeder inserts.

I remember one deer I shot with my old 60 pound recurve and Bear Razorhead. Range was probably 25 yards maybe a little farther. slightly quartering away. I hit it pretty low, and I actually hit the front leg bone. The broadhead hit the leg bone and then changed direction slightly, slid off of the leg bone, took a rib out, and then took another rib out, and hit the leg bone on the far side. The arrow exited about halfway, and when she jumped, the far leg snapped the arrow shaft off.

That was just a file sharpened broadhead, and that deer bled like a stuck hog, leaving buckets of blood practically. I found the deer in about 30 yards. The deer was a very large bodied mature doe. And that was just an Easton Aluminum 2219 arrow without any heavy FOC weight, just the standard aluminum insert and plain old Bear Razorhead. I don't see where they need to be honed on a stone. If it's good enough for Fred Bear, it's good enough for me. Although I do want a higher FOC, anymore, but I am also unfortunately having to shoot lighter poundage bows these days.

Well, just to close the loop maybe….

I can see how an extremely sharp head would stretch the hide somewhat less on the exit. But I don’t think it really is going to alter (appreciably) how good a blood trail you get, because that seems to me to be a function of the pressure in the vessels that you clip on the way through. That and gravity. The higher the holes in the hide, the longer it’s going to take before they start bleeding onto the ground.

The idea that a head could be “too sharp” to leave a good blood trail strikes me as one of the silliest things I’ve ever seen expressed in earnest, so I thought I would toss it out here and see what kind of response it got. And to be fair, I have seen some incredibly thoughtless statements tossed out as “fact” (Internet Certified Grade A!) around here…..

Kind of curious to see as many people getting cranked out of shape, though… The only thing that really offends me personally is dissemination of that which is 100% certifiably BS and treating it as if it were the truth. I try really hard to get a good chuckle out of that which is just silliness, but harmful disinformation really does piss me off.

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