I put together an ilf recurve. At my draw it is pulling 41-42. Its a black magic riser and some dryad acs limbs. 60" bow, even tiller. Side plate is on piece of velcro. Draw is about 27"

I started out with my usual 600 spine 29" arrows..way weak. I try some 550, way weak. I dug out some old 29" 2114 with 125 tips...still weak...moved to 100 grain tips..seemed ok til i moved back to 20 and the shaft was so far right it missed the block and snapped off a frame. I had some 28" gt 500 and with 150 they were decent.

I even tried a full length 400 carbon ant it was still hitting right..

My other setup uses 600 29.25 inch 600's with 175 up front....what the heck i Am i doing wrong?

Well.....we can't see you so everything that you read here is going to be a WAG. But that said, some of what you wrote doesn't seem to make sense, unless it is simply the context.

The dryad limbs are efficient, so they can be delivering more energy to the arrow than your other bows/limbs. Spine need is more than just draw weight, it is also related to how much of/what percentage of that stored energy gets transferred to the arrow.

The riser is likely built well past center, maybe more so than your other risers, which if you are right handed will at times cause folks to shoot to the right, because the arrow is further right. Tiller has -0- to do with spine requirement in my experience.

You said a 29" .600 was weak, but a 28" .500 with 150grs. on the front was "decent", which is odd since both shafts would effectively have the same dynamic reaction.

In instances like this where you have results that are all over the place I tend to suspect the shooter, which most folks don't like to hear.

Bottom line is you can tune nearly any arrow to nearly any bow if you manipulate the dynamic spine enough. I decide which arrow I'm going to shoot with which point weight and then tune the bow to shoot it. That isn't the "trendy" way to do it these days.

If the .500 was decent I'd tune the bow to shoot it. But hey....

Put a stick on Hoyt style rest with a plunger button on the bow , and try again. If need be adjust tiller, and brace height.

Limb alignment is a huge issue in ilf set ups. You need to check limb alignment when the bow is at full draw. The Bieter limb gages work ok if you use them correctly. When the bow is at full draw is where you really see bad limb alignment.

Carefully check to see how your arrow aligns with the bow. The tip of the arrow should be just a bit left of the string when you look down the shaft from the rear. You can't start tuning if that isn't right.

Fdp...i am totally ok wearing the its the shooter tag....i understand this could easily be the case.

Ill try a few more things tonight. It is just so odd to me that it is that far off. I think sometimes my perception of how big the gap is between spines really is.

Keep in mind the full length .400s will spine around .600. They are only .400 at 28".

I would get some foot spray and spray the fletching or if your bare shaft the back end about 5" I think your hitting your riser.

I suspect that - as fdp points out - your riser is cut way past center. Build the sideplate out after checking as JusPassin suggests. Then fine tune with point weight, brace height etc.

All great suggestions. Thank you!

False weak

I would assume the shelf is cut deeper into the riser and the limbs are more efficient. Can you adjust the side plate thickness at all? I initially struggle switching back and forth between my longbow and my recurve. When I pickup the longbow I hit left until things settle in, when I go back to the recurve I hit right for a few shots. My guess is the shelf. It could also be in your release if you're plucking try to take a video of yourself, if my hand comes flying off my face bad things happen.

I shoot whatever flies the best regardless of the spine these days. Call me lazy but it works.

You do realize that as the arrow lengthens it becomes weaker? And as Frank said a bow that is cut past center will require a stiffer spine that a bow cut less than center, I would start with a shaft that is 15-20# stiffer than normal.

Bob

Does the why early matter. Like has been said go stiffer in the spine. Jawge

Had the same issue with my A&H ACS. The guy I bought the 36# from said he was shooting full length 600s - It is tuned to me with 29" 400s and 185g up front. My 45# made me purchase some 300s trying to come up with the same type arrow recipe.

It's why factory spine is static spine, based on a certain arrow length span. After that, the archer must tune it to his, and the bow's dynamics, and everyone is different to some degree.

Just FYI, I have a 1973 Shakespeare QT takedown, aluminum riser that is cut well inside center. At 40#, with a low stretch string (15 strand Fury w/24 strand loops), it will shoot 2016 arrows at 28" with 125/145 tips. Those arrows would be much too stiff for that same bow if I stacked the arrow plate out to center. If I use a B-50 string on that bow, I have to drop back to 1916 with 125/145 tips, and if I build out the side plate once again, I need 1816. So you see that center cuts are a big deal dynamically.

Again, thank you all. A lotta times when im messing with these things i tell myself, you gotta give the bow what it is asking for rather than what you think it needs.

When it 'needs' something really counter-intuitive I believe in starting with fundamental bow set-up. If that checks out I turn to 'operator error'.

DanaC....i cant disagree. Your right. For me its just finding a way to work around my limitations.

Craig:

It is cut 1/8 past center....does that help?

This is rocket science. Bo wonder I can’t tune a bow?

build it out till it shoots,,

Actually being cut way past is an advantage IMO. Heavier spine shafts are usually heavier in weight and a little tougher. For me Less putzing around with what inserts and what BH. A heavier arrow also helps to make up for those annoying little mistakes in form . Makes a quieter bow as we all know. Just my observation, your experience may vary.

I just got home and shot a few. The 500 spine is correct for whatever reason. The carbon 500 cut to 28" with a 125 shot the bare shaft within my standards.

Since i dont own a saw and id like the aluminum to work ill stop and get one cut to 28" tomorrow and test it out. Id love it if it would work with 125 tips. I think that 500 @29 was just too weak. The bow was telling me but i just didnt want to listen.

What bradsmith201 said. At least that should tell you if you are getting a false weak reading.

When I tell trad guys I’m shooting 300 spine they look at me like I don’t know what I’m doing….though I out shoot 9 out of 10 of them at a tourney.

An ILF bow cut past center with very efficient limbs req a heavier spine. I also have a long draw complicating things more.

I like those FP test kits 70g-300g. I can get 400’s cut a little shorter than I hunt with to bareshaft with a std insert and a 70g tip….but with a 145g BH only the 300’s bareshaft tune.

Right handed or left handed? :-)

Right handed. I was just able to break a nock with a bare shaft and 2 fletched. The 500 spine cut to 28 with a 125 did as good as i can do. Its at least good enough that i can blame my accuracy issues on me and not the bow :-).

For general readership: if a bow has the 'centershot' cut past center, it does not mean it should be shot that way. It is just sho you can choose how you want to adjust it back short of center, with a plunger, a rest, stacks of leather or whatever you use. Tune from there.

.600 spine in a wooden or aluminum shaft is not the same as .600 for a carbon shaft; they measurement systems are different. A 1916 aluminum shaft spines at .623 for 50.6#, cut to 28". To get the same weight you would need a carbon shaft at .514.

Other variables make it hard to compare those shaft materials. Ultimately it is trial and error. The proof of the arrow is in the shooting. - leg

Carbon and aluminum spine are measured using the same standard.

Wood is not.

Carbon/aluminum spine can be converted to wood equivalent by multiplying the carbon/aluminum deflection by .825.

1/8” past center is a bow hunters dream. Stiff arrows penetrate much better then weak arrows curving around a riser.

wow. really complicated for me. LOL. I am at the point I put feathers on em and if they hit in the bullseye I am ready to hunt

Aluminum arrow spine:

In older days it was measured the same way as wooden ones, and commonly still is, by those of us who use both aluminum and wood. That is, on 26" supports with a 2# weight in the middle. Your device measures how far it sags, the deflection, in thousands of an inch and use a chart to convert that figure to draw weight.

When carbon shafts came along the supports were moved to 28" and the weight reduced to 1.94#. Shaft were made to deflect by even numbers and those were marked on the shafts, minus the decimal dot, so 500, 600, 700, 800.

As carbon shafts became more common Easton began to measure and mark the aluminum shafts by the newer method. The old method is called AMO and the new one ASTM. So aluminum shafts have two deflections and you need to use different charts to convert them to pounds of draw weight.

If you do not use wooden shafts you don't need a spine testing device, you can just you the marked 500, 600, etc and trust the makers. If you want to make your own high grade wooden arrows you really need a spine tester to sort your shafts, unless you have a really top grade shaft supplier. Bulk run of the mill wooden shafts vary widely in spine and gross weight.

So if you use babsaph's method you will end up with a lot of tomato stakes and kindling with feathers on the ends. Me, I sort them before putting feathers on. - lbg

"Carefully check to see how your arrow aligns with the bow. The tip of the arrow should be just a bit left of the string when you look down the shaft from the rear. You can't start tuning if that isn't right."

The last sentence is OFF. You can tune any bow and the arrow position is just a result of how deep the side window is.

Most likely your arrow points to the right because the riser is cut too much past center without a rest.... Exactly what poster above said.

There is no way the arrow could point to the right if its cut 1/8" past center. A 1/4" diameter shaft, the string would bisect the shaft, I'm not aware of shaft less than 1/4" in dia.

Bob

Very helpful stuff guys! I think my biggest issues is i was comparing spine needs on very similar poundage bows with very different risers. I was thinking apples to apples...but it was apples to oranges.

I got an inch cut off that 2114 and things worked out famously. The bow is shooting and feeling great.

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