Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


What Is This About?

Messages posted to thread:
N Y Yankee 13-Jan-22
Selden Slider 13-Jan-22
iowacedarshooter 13-Jan-22
SB 13-Jan-22
Lowcountry 13-Jan-22
Draven 13-Jan-22
Juancho 13-Jan-22
RonG 13-Jan-22
grizz 13-Jan-22
George D. Stout 13-Jan-22
Catskills 13-Jan-22
GudOlDaze 13-Jan-22
782GearUSMC 13-Jan-22
The Whittler 13-Jan-22
The Whittler 13-Jan-22
782GearUSMC 13-Jan-22
babysaph 13-Jan-22
GudOlDaze 13-Jan-22
charley 14-Jan-22
gray1 14-Jan-22
Viper 14-Jan-22
Red Beastmaster 14-Jan-22
Draven 14-Jan-22
Draven 14-Jan-22
Viper 14-Jan-22
Draven 14-Jan-22
Draven 14-Jan-22
Seneca_Archer 14-Jan-22
RonG 14-Jan-22
782GearUSMC 14-Jan-22
Phil 14-Jan-22
pondscum2 14-Jan-22
Richmeister 14-Jan-22
782GearUSMC 14-Jan-22
fdp 14-Jan-22
782GearUSMC 14-Jan-22
From: N Y Yankee
Date: 13-Jan-22




Im seeing several videos lately of guys shooting their recurve bows. At the shot, they immediately point the bow to the ground by torqueing their wrist down. Not sure what they are thinking here or if it is legitimate. I know target shooters with long stabilizers who use an open-handed grip, will let the bow naturally fall away, but these guys do not have stabilizers, just a bow. Have you seen this? I seem to see it more often now. I think it's becoming a fad or something.

From: Selden Slider
Date: 13-Jan-22




Yep, I've wondered at the same thing. Frank

From: iowacedarshooter
Date: 13-Jan-22




then there is the foriegn bow shooters who are shooting off the wrong side of their bow, haven't got that one figured out yet!

From: SB
Date: 13-Jan-22




They been watching Oly shooters and think thats the way to do it! ...ie,..Newbies!

From: Lowcountry
Date: 13-Jan-22




The foreign guys shooting off the “wrong” side are using thumb rings. I don’t know anything about thumb rings, but the guy I see the most - his arrows don’t seem to be tuned, but he is very accurate!

From: Draven
Date: 13-Jan-22




Could you please post a video? Thanks

From: Juancho
Date: 13-Jan-22




It happens to me from time to time. It is because I don't grip the bow firmly , but I just let it rest on the web of my thumb, and let my hand close naturally around the grip. It only happens with light bows , like my 55# KB , with heavier bows , being under more pressure the fingers wrap around the grip a bit more firmly , thus , avoiding the bow dropping the way you see on target shooters . So little I wrap my fingers that I had my bow go flying out of my hand more than once. I normally get really good grouping that way.

From: RonG
Date: 13-Jan-22




They are limp wristed.

From: grizz
Date: 13-Jan-22




Newbies answer to a fall away rest.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 13-Jan-22




Likely just bad form, trying to get a quick view of the arrow in flight....head comes up and bow hand goes down. You can sometimes get away with it at close range but it's not an ideal way to shoot.

From: Catskills
Date: 13-Jan-22




Yes, what was the deal with the horizontal handgun shooting? That was all the rage for a year or two, then kinda went away. Seemed dumb.

From: GudOlDaze
Date: 13-Jan-22




Look up "khatra archery" on line and watch a few videos. This is an Asiatic follow thru technique that, when done properly, helps with arrow performance and clearance. This has never been an aspect of western archery but some find that a small amount of forward khatra, applied with the little finger and NOT with the wrist, can help arrow flight. Much the same action as a hunting stabilizer. I use this technique with short bows like the Bear Kodiak Magnum and it helps greatly. You should not be applying too much pressure, certainly not enough to cause the bow to swing completely forward.

From: 782GearUSMC
Date: 13-Jan-22




If a shooter's primary pursuit with a bow is bowhunting wildlife, my advice is don't develop and ingrain methods and habits that are not conducive to bowhunting.

From: The Whittler
Date: 13-Jan-22




Khatra l have watched a couple videos of it in slow motion. The arrow is past the riser when they twist the bow, so it does nothing unless it's just for show.

From: The Whittler
Date: 13-Jan-22




Khatra l have watched a couple videos of it in slow motion. The arrow is past the riser when they twist the bow, so it does nothing unless it's just for show.

From: 782GearUSMC
Date: 13-Jan-22




From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 13-Jan-22




why do the Olympic guys do it if its bad?

From: GudOlDaze
Date: 13-Jan-22




Target bows and Olympic setups fall forward because of the stabilizer weight and the open bow hand, as 782's video shows. The archer is not exerting any torque with the wrist or hand. Hunting bows without stabilizers will tend to rock back and jump forward in an open hand, not something you want in a hunting situation, thus the tendency for the clenched grip. A wrist sling and stabilizer is generally unwanted on a hunting bow so the compromise is laying the fingertips GENTLY down the front of the grip. With your finger TIPS layed down the front of the grip you will find that your palm ( or thumb pad ) contact is perfect and consistent every time. With your fingertips properly placed you will not twist or torque and your hand will be exactly the same every time. This is not a difficult thing to do, and your fingertip guided grip will come naturally after just a short time of concentrated practice (muscle memory). As far as khatra, the videos that you see where the bow is not moving until the arrow has left is being done by someone that has no idea how to perform this technique correctly. You will see a lot of YouTube videos by people that have no idea what they are talking about. Please be aware that Asiatic Archery khatra is for War Bow use, it increases power but certainly will not help with accuracy. It also aides in arrow clearance when shooting off the hand with thumb release. When I mentioned Khatra with a recurve hunting bow, I am not talking about Asiatic style. I am talking about the PRINCIPLES of Khatra being used to help with arrow clearance and flight when shot from the shelf. If you use the fingertips LIGHTLY down the front of the grip but add just a SLIGHT backward pressure with the pinky finger, you will find that the bow rocks forward slightly on the shot and arrow flight can be improved. This is the same effect a hunting stabilizer has. The movement is slight and anyone shooting with more flourish than that is just wasting effort.

From: charley
Date: 14-Jan-22




Lots of compound shooters coming over, and they tend to do that, maybe it's something that they brought with the switch.

From: gray1
Date: 14-Jan-22




Ill try that and see if it works better than throwing the bow.

From: Viper
Date: 14-Jan-22




NY -

A number of years ago, a friend of mine was going for his level 4 cert with "coach" Lee in Chula Vista. He asked Lee what was with the wrist drop? Lee told him, they taught that to prevent the shooter from dropping their bow arm. Right. My friend told Lee, What don't you just teach them to hold their bow arms up. Yeah, the reasoning that stupid, but my friend did get his cert.

Now, there's a big difference between forcing the wrist drop and letting the wrist drop. The former is idiotic at best (IMHO of course), while the latter may be a natural reaction to maintaining a relaxed Bow side forearm, where the wrist and bow drops naturally. The problem is, with most people, the former happens more than the latter - just because.

Viper out.

From: Red Beastmaster
Date: 14-Jan-22




It's just like the fake exaggerated follow through with the release hand. It's just for show.

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-22




V, that's not usually a result due to the finger sling, bow weight and move forward movement at release too?

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-22




PS It's in no way just a KSL teaching since all the OA on the globe are doing it.

From: Viper
Date: 14-Jan-22




D -

No it's not the sling or the physical bow weight, because there are plenty of people not doing it. We tend to watch a few videos and assume what we're seeing is the rule.

BTW - KSL doesn't come up with stuff, he just copies stuff, usually without understanding why it's being done. In that regard, he's quite traditional ;)

Red -

The problem with your statement is that while the analogy is correct, it's still the difference between a natural reaction and a forced or faked one.

Viper out.

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-22




I actually watched all the Olympics and I’ve seen no archer not doing it, disregarding the countries. But you are right: OA is traditional - nobody invented new things since ages.

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-22




PS The single time the archer is not doing it is when his shot went the wrong time and he is trying to save it - hence the belief that by moving the bow hand right after release you can alter the arrow trajectory.

From: Seneca_Archer
Date: 14-Jan-22

Seneca_Archer's embedded Photo



I just couldn't seem to make this happen as Chester describes.....

From: RonG
Date: 14-Jan-22




Videos like above are not proving anything, no one that I know of strangles the grip like that, you grip the bow evenly like Howard Hill said, you don't squeeze it or hold it limp, you just hold onto it.

That video should be filed in the do not watch junk pile.

Now try to shoot a 44 magnum holding the grip loosely and after they sew up the split in your fore head then you can contemplate on what people tell you about not holding onto your weapon.

From: 782GearUSMC
Date: 14-Jan-22




RonG said" "..no one that I know of strangles the grip like that..."

Then I have to assume that you have never observed many novice shooters.

From: Phil
Date: 14-Jan-22




let's keep in mind that this is a technique used by some of the best target archers on the planet

From: pondscum2
Date: 14-Jan-22




i shot with a wrist sling & open grip until i quit trying to strangle my bow. it rocked a bit on release ...shot very well that way.

From: Richmeister
Date: 14-Jan-22




Didnt archers add short stabilizers to their hunting bows way back when to get their bow to tilt forward after release...?

From: 782GearUSMC
Date: 14-Jan-22




Rich asked: "Didn't archers add short stabilizers to their hunting bows way back when to get their bow to tilt forward after release."

Yep!

From: fdp
Date: 14-Jan-22




I don't remember any one adding a stabilizer to get their bow to tip forward.

I remember people adding stabilizers to increase physical weight to make the bow less susceptible to unwanted movement.

I remember people adding weight to Draven a release and absorb excess shock and noise.

I remember people adding weight to manipulate the balance of the bow.

But I don't remember anyone adding weight to hunting bows to make the bow tip forward.

From: 782GearUSMC
Date: 14-Jan-22




"I remember people adding stabilizers to increase physical weight to make the bow less susceptible to unwanted movement."

"I remember people adding weight to Draven a release and absorb excess shock and noise."

"I remember people adding weight to manipulate the balance of the bow."

Those too!





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