Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Not Impressed Bearpaw German Jager BH

Messages posted to thread:
Stix 25-Nov-21
tradmt 25-Nov-21
Corax_latrans 25-Nov-21
tradmt 25-Nov-21
GLF 25-Nov-21
Tree 25-Nov-21
Clydebow 25-Nov-21
[email protected] 25-Nov-21
Stix 25-Nov-21
Stix 25-Nov-21
Corax_latrans 25-Nov-21
Stix 25-Nov-21
Tree 25-Nov-21
fdp 26-Nov-21
2Wild Bill 26-Nov-21
redquebec 26-Nov-21
Andy Man 26-Nov-21
George D. Stout 26-Nov-21
Driver 26-Nov-21
George D. Stout 26-Nov-21
fdp 26-Nov-21
Stix 26-Nov-21
Stix 26-Nov-21
Stix 26-Nov-21
2Wild Bill 26-Nov-21
Stix 26-Nov-21
fdp 26-Nov-21
longbow1968 26-Nov-21
CritterGitter62 26-Nov-21
[email protected] 26-Nov-21
From: Stix
Date: 25-Nov-21




I shot a buck yesterday with the mentioned broadhead. Even though I recovered the animal, it was because I saw it drop 200+ yards away. The blood trail was scant, penetration marginal, and the tip folder over.

Scenario: 25 yard quartering away shot. Hit mid ribcage in the vitals. No pass thru. A near textbook hit. Blood trail was almost non existent. Tip folded probably from contact with rib. Upon field dressing, noticed lung decimation. If I had to follow blood trail only, I would have definitely lost buck. Luckily saw him drop on open hillside 200+ yards away.

I sharpened these broadheads to hair shaving sharp on RADA sharpener. My opinion based on actual on-game performance is that they are pretty poor performers.

From: tradmt
Date: 25-Nov-21




If a tip curls, you don’t want to use them. I have had double lung, no exit, with little blood to speak of but they usually only go 60-80 yards it seems.

Hard to explain every different scenario but curled tips is completely avoidable.

From: Corax_latrans
Date: 25-Nov-21




Did you hit the off humerus?

If so, a little tip-curl might not be unforgivable?

But if the blades were badly dulled without hitting dirt, that seems like a problem…

From: tradmt
Date: 25-Nov-21




If it curled after passing through vitals and then curled in the shoulder,….I’m definitely changing heads. I suppose it could have stuck in the bone and the deer tweaked it running? That I could understand.

He did state penetration as marginal though.

From: GLF
Date: 25-Nov-21




200 yard run ,bent tip? Somethings not right.

From: Tree
Date: 25-Nov-21




Congratulatins on the buck!! I was kinda skeptical of those heads myself...thanks for the real life experience with them.

From: Clydebow
Date: 25-Nov-21




Is this the only deer you have shoot one with?

From: [email protected]
Date: 25-Nov-21




Did you take entry/exit pics of the ribcage? Pictures of broadhead?

From: Stix
Date: 25-Nov-21




No pics. And yes, first animal taken with this head. Forgot to add: head wobbled badly, appears to have lost structural integrity on a relatively soft tissue hit. Only possibly hit a rib, maybe far side shoulder.

From: Stix
Date: 25-Nov-21




Also, there's more details to this story, I saw him bed after the hit 200 yards away and jumped him a few times trying to approach. Actually had to come back in the AM to keep from continually pushing him. And he wasn't in the last spot I observed in the evening.

From: Corax_latrans
Date: 25-Nov-21




I guess I’m not entirely clear on what you mean by “mid ribcage” and “decimation” of the lungs.

From the sound of it, I gather that you somehow missed any really sizable blood vessels (which can certainly happen), and the frontal lobes of the lungs probably didn’t collapse, allowing the deer to stay on its feet a lot longer.

How sharp were the blades after the fact?

Honestly, I would never blame anyone for abandoning a particular head after a bad experience with it, but it’s also entirely possible that this was just one of those hits were nothing goes according to the playbook. You definitely have to have faith in your set up; but it’s not always appropriate to fault the equipment, either.

For example, if the head were to have hit with blades parallel to (and in the middle of) a given rib, then both blades would be expected to lose some sharpness while passing through that bone. That’s fair. And rib bones themselves are proportioned pretty much like 2”X6” or 2”x8”s - they’re a lot “thicker” from some angles than others.

So maybe the head is legitimately at fault or maybe it was the opposite of a winning lottery ticket. SOOOOO hard to know. But I, for one, would be delighted to know every bit of additional detail that you can provide.

And just to be clear, I don’t pretend to know what happened here… I’m just wondering what can be learned.

From: Stix
Date: 25-Nov-21




Same here. I gave more details of the kill regarding deer bedding and jumping that were not on initial post. I initially just summarized it with the key points. Bottom line though is: 25 yards good hit (mid chest, both in height and windage), scant blood, no pass thru, marginal penetration, bent tip, long recovery.

From: Tree
Date: 25-Nov-21




A quality head definitely shouldn’t curl on a rib of a deer, I wouldn’t trust them now but, that’s just my opinion. It seems from your account of what happened it almost had to curl on impact which led to the poor penetration.

From: fdp
Date: 26-Nov-21




Impact is all that could have made It curl.

No broadhead should curl on a deer. They just aren't that heavy boned regardless of where they are from.

From: 2Wild Bill
Date: 26-Nov-21




"I sharpened these broadheads to hair shaving sharp"

That fine and edge extended to the point may have reduced the point to bendable thickness. What angle of edge did you make for the blade?

From: redquebec
Date: 26-Nov-21




I look at this event as a victory!! You learned something about your gear in a real world test that went wrong, and you still got your deer!! That's great, usually the second part of the previous sentence doesn't happen. Congratulations on a successful hunt!

And if it was me I would NEVER use that broadhead again because that's just my personality. I can't stand that uneasy feeling of doubting my equipment, my setup or my skills, makes the whole hunt a stress instead of an enjoyable experience.

From: Andy Man
Date: 26-Nov-21




ACE -and you good to go

From: George D. Stout
Date: 26-Nov-21




This photo isn't mine but I did something eerily similar many years ago and the head stayed intact, just like in this photo. One of those ill-advised straight down shots. That deer went right down, but bawled like a scalded calf. Last time I ever took a shot like that. Oh yes, it was a fragile old Bear Razorhead, that guys nowadays seem to think are somehow not 'sturdy' enough for plain old deer. Too many good old solid heads that still do the job to look for new and shiny; well, for me anyway. Glad you found him Stix.

From: Driver
Date: 26-Nov-21




I've only killed 2 deer with those heads and had excellent results but as stated above, if you're not 100% confident in your equipment don't use it.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 26-Nov-21

George D. Stout's embedded Photo



From: fdp
Date: 26-Nov-21




Long before the introduction of "premium" broadheads to the archery hunting market lots of us did our own broadhead testing.

At my house we used an old Duster that was way down in the pasture below the house. We learned quickly which heads would and wouldn't shoot through the doors and which ones would and wouldn't be damaged in doing so. It was pretty surprising how many heads that are seen in a poor light today did fine in that test, including those with replaceable blades. And how many that are praised now won't come through the test in any better condition than the older ones.

From: Stix
Date: 26-Nov-21

Stix's embedded Photo



Wild Bill, the RADA sharpener puts a "hollow ground" edge, which is not a flat angled edge. I've attached a picture. The angle of the edge basically takes the shape of the round wheels of the RADA.

From: Stix
Date: 26-Nov-21

Stix's embedded Photo



Also attached is pic of small mule buck. Note: I hunt private land with an "extended season" rifle tag, using my bow. Hence the need for hunter orange. The buck ran onto an adjoining property that not allowed to bring bow on, so couldn't get a pic with Black Hunter longbow.

From: Stix
Date: 26-Nov-21




Mulie* buck. Danged spell check

From: 2Wild Bill
Date: 26-Nov-21




Stix,

I'm thinking that the angle of the grind reduced the thickness at the point that permitted the curl. A wider angle edge is stiffer because it is a shorter distance to the body of the blade. Hollow ground is a nice edge for a slice, but usually doesn't do well to a purpendicular blow.

Very nice buck, congratulations.

From: Stix
Date: 26-Nov-21




That may be true Wild Bill oh, and it makes sense. Hollow may be good for sharpness, the bad for durability.

From: fdp
Date: 26-Nov-21




How much pressure would you have to apply and how much time would it take to thin the steel to the point of failure using a manual pull through sharpener?

That maybe the case but it seems unlikely to me.

From: longbow1968
Date: 26-Nov-21




Nice Buck, haven’t seen many mulies on the forum this year.

From: CritterGitter62
Date: 26-Nov-21




I use the 175 grain version and I have been very happy with the results, my arrows fly straight, the broadhead is hair popping sharp using the RADA and it doesn't show any weakness in the tip or anywhere else. For the price and the performance, it's a winner in my book.

From: [email protected]
Date: 26-Nov-21




Are they lifetime guarantee? Might get a free replacement.





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