Got the new TBM today and was briefly puzzled by the right-handed bow and the left-handed archer. Closer inspection revealed a bow limb and string on the far side of the sore-footed archer.

I too was puzzled by the picture until I realized the picture taker was right handed.

Me too. I had to study it again.

Yep. Nice pair of Russell boots. Looks like he's putting them on for the first time.

Anyone notice the small error in the last issue? The piece on broad heads misidentified a Hunter head as a Hill head.

I read the article about Ben Pearson today. I can’t imagine 3,000 bows a day made and 36,000 arrows.

Lol... Wayne Van Zwoll is a huge bowhunter, and killed a lot if elk with a howatt hunter and zwickey heads, not to mention mule deer, antelope and black bear. He wrote for Bowhunter Magazine and Bow&Arrow in the 80's and 90's. He killed his first deer, a monster muley from a tree stand before he was 16, and had the story published in Bowhunter Magazine. He was very consistent in killing elk and mule deer in the back country. He difinitly isnt just "moonlighting" as a bowhunter.

Wayne relieved me of a very nice ‘67 Wing Thunderbird as it fit his huge hands better than mine. At his 32” draw, it probably pulls over 65 lbs, which he handles with ease. I made him up a dozen 2219’s for it.

He works extremely hard as a writer and everything he does. I know, because he was a housemate for a couple years while working on his PhD. All the while, he was still making a living researching and writing articles for numerous outdoor publications, along with several books on rifle shooting. And guiding elk hunters at the famed Deseret Ranch.

So, ya—Wayne may have mis-identified a Hill broadhead, or maybe someone else wrote that photo caption.

And there you have the rest of the story...from page two.

Pic of the cover.

wow. 3000 bows a day? wow. it takes some a year to make one. SMH

I just ordered a new subscription about 2 weeks ago I hope to be getting it soon.

I wonder if he was showing off the arm guard? Years and years ago I was involved in a photo for a local newspaper. I was told to put my quiver on the wrong side so my arrows showed. My idea of switching sides with the other archer who didn’t have a quiver fell on deaf ears.

Since the hard copy of TBM is no longer sold on magazine racks the cover art appears to be somewhat downplayed. And why shouldn't it be...no one is buying it because of the cover anymore. If it was my responsibility I wouldn't fret over it either. Still great content.

Wayne is a part timer moonlighter... Haha!! This comes from someone who knows or cares nothing about someone but because he writes articles for gun magazines and Bugle magazine, the guy thinks he's better and above Wayne. Lol.. Sometimes, the ignorance of some of the guys on here crack me up!! Wonder what ole Philliphunts would say about Judd Cooney or Sam Fedela? Jim Dougherty actually wrote articles for gun magazines, shot compounds, wrote the Gun Digest. Guess he's beneath you to...

Phillipshunt— I agree it would have been a much more interesting article if Wayne could have time-traveled back to do a personal interview with Howard Hill. While he was in that mode, maybe he could have gotten quotes and insight from some of HH’s contemporaries.

Without that option, when it comes to writing retrospective articles you’re pretty much limited to secondary information sources, such as older articles and books.

Too bad Wayne’s article disappointed you. Maybe it was some of those big words PhD-types sometimes use that you didn’t understand.

What issue are we referencing here? My latest issue is Aug/Sept. and has no such cover!??

It’s is the Oct/Nov 21 issue.

I just don't understand the negativity of some of the folks on this forum. The way Nate Steens bows were talked about from the naysayers was garbage. We are JUST bowhunters who happen to enjoy a simple ,proven style of bow. When I see the current state of affairs this country is headed, being critical of another fellow archer is the least of my worries ??

Craig, I hope the negativity you see on here sometimes is in good fun. Guys just giving other guys a hard time like buddy’s would. There are Internet commandos that will say stuff on line they would never say face to face to someone. People forget what they write is there forever and we really don’t know who or how many people are really looking at this stuff. I try not to take people very seriously on here.

Isn’t this supposed to be about a TBM cover photo?

It’s supposed to be but some have to make it about them.

There are many men that are good hunter's and a few that a good story teller's. I think we are all good liars when explaining why we missed. I am thankful for anyone who can tell a good hunting story. Thanks for the story's Wayne.

I’m not subscribe to the magazine anymore could someone take a photo of it and post it. I should subscribe to the magazine again I do remember the days I could not wait to get a copy in the mail. Before I quit my subscription I would barely thumb through the magazine guess I kind of lost interest in it.

Nah, it’s not just about the magazine cover— it’s more about how little mistakes get spotted and pointed out by eagle-eyed readers.

I’ve been puzzled before by a few photos and the associated captions, only to see corrections made in the next issue. As far as the broadhead identification mistake, it could have been that editors switched photos, or changed what may have originally said “a Howard Hill-STYLE head (owing to its long, narrow profile)... Because, really, does anyone use actual Howard Hill broadheads anymore? Are they even available anymore?

I didn’t even notice the broadheads. They are all the same. All work

Philllipshunt,

Thanks for setting me straight on Howard Hill broadheads still being available. With the profile they have, I don’t doubt they fly and penetrate pretty well, But they look flimsy to me so I’ve never wanted to try them.

If you like them and use them for your local swamp rabbits and squirrels, and maybe even those little Louisiana whitetails, I’d say that would probably be a good use for them.

Carry on.

At a hunnerd dollars a dozen, they sure are! No wonder no one uses ‘em anymore!

Well, maybe I’ll just give Ol’ Wayne a call and ask him what he knows about HH broadheads. He is about as frugal a person as I’ve ever met, so I doubt he’d ever spring for those cheap-looking heads!

Got mine today,maybe he had to switch to lefty. Is he missing a couple fingers on the right hand?

The men who stir the pot on these threads really piss me off. One little thing about a hill broadhead and this happened! No wonder I don't visit like I used to!

Another grizz of the same opinion Grizz.

This thread deserves a mercy killing.

Gents look closer there's a longbow on the right side of the guy putting his boots on and one on his left side mystery solved.

I only see a right handed longbow and a walking staff.

The other bow is behind the hunter resting on the same log. You only see part of the limb. The first person to respond to this post answered the question.

I'm trying to figure out what happened to fletching on some of the arrows

One bow is his and other one is the camera man's

Making assumptions can bite you. Just ask Inspector Clouseau!

Tim, Fletch cover :o) look closer. And it took me a few minutes to find the other bow on his right.

I remember those old Wayne Van Zwoll magazine articles. I seem to recall he was usually packing one of his Howatt Hunter recurves.

That is what all the B.S. is about??? Are any of you guy's over 5 years old ??? You must all be members of the Dr. Spock generation.

Bob

I remember Dr. Spock. Lol

I’m more the Mr. Spock generation.

Beam me up..Scotty.. please. Jigger

Phillips, if you’re referring to the article about Hill in the Aug/Sept issue of TBM, it was written by TJ Conrad’s. I see no recent articles about Hill by Mr Van Zwoll. Perhaps you should check your self and sources.

Some may not like this thread, but there are some good take-aways: check your assumptions, don’t jump to conclusions. And always check yourself and your motives for posting. red

So, anyone who hunts anything with anything other than a bow, ever, is not a bowhunter? That’s laughable.

Well there you have it. Hat's off to the better man.

Sounds like Frisky has some competition in gas-baggedness!

I guess since guys like Bear and Pearson liked wing shooting with shotguns, they were just dabblers. Ain’t you special.

Oh my, I’m crushed to find after all these years that I’m not really a bowhunter! Please excuse me! I need a moment!

This thread went to snot as far as I am concerned. There IS another bow on his right side. I assume the right handed bow belongs to the right handed photographer. See Chuck Simpson's comment.

Jim Dougherty in his later years wrote the shotgunning column in the back of Hunting magazine, I think it was. He also enjoyed flyfishing local waters in southern Idaho, my stomping grounds.

Phillipshunt is just jerking our chains! He couldn’t begin to match the bowhunting credentials of Jim Dougherty, Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, Don Thomas, Ted Trueblood, Aldo Leopold and many other multi-faceted sportsmen, probably including Frisky Joe.

Hey, but this has been fun!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Wayne v. Zwoll sucked at flyfishing—that’s why he hired me to teach it at his Outdoor Women course at Deseret Ranch!

Wow! This thread is a riot! I never knew that when I clicked the shutter on my little Sony camera that it would ever create a stir on the Leatherwall! Hahaha!

I find it humorous that so far only one person noticed that my ol’ pal Jack only has four fingers on his right hand! Yes, my right handed Stalker Coyote is in the foreground, and Jack’s left handed Black Widow is laying on his right side where he laid it. Jack almost drowned in the creek moments after the photo was taken. Here’s the link to the story if anyone’s interested: https://tradbow.com/drowning- jack/

Luke J

LOL !

Gees-O-Pizzo's

Just what this forum needs is another PITA overbearing purist.

Count me as a dabbler:-))))) I have sinned, I have harvested animals with a high- powered rifle. Like Quigley with pistols, I don’t have much use for one but I do know how to use one. If I still had feelings they would be hurt:-))))

Dang it, I might have to contact my attorney on this one because you didn’t specify what time zone you were going off of. It was yesterday when I posted at least out west:-)) I’m sure I can make the cut next time.

Phillipshunt is a bowhunter, what do you think about that?

He wears his bowhunter raincoat, he wears his bowhunter hat.

He wears his bowhunter raincoat, he wears his bowhunter shoes

and every Sunday morning he reads the bowhunter news.

Credit; The Smothers Brothers

This is a tough crowd :)At one time I bowhunted during gun season, now I load my own rounds for the 3030, put me on the shame list

The article in question by Wayne van Zwoll was published in the June/July Issue of TBM, page 41.

The article by TJ was a chapter from his book.

Both are full of inaccuracies as well as numerous other articles published on Hill.

Folks keep using the same old "inaccurate" sources, no research.

It's an easy path. Researching takes time. Most of us are not willing to put in the hours.

I know. I'm still embarrassed about some of the early stuff I wrote. No more.

LiquidAm, how about some examples of the “inaccuracies” you speak of? What are your sources on these? I agree researching takes time and without some way to verify, information may be anecdotal. Is yours?

Wayne van Zwolle's article:

Hill didn't play semi-pro ball - no source; his timeline doesn't support it; he was too busy working. He was gainfully employed in Alabama and Miami during the 10 years he was supposed to be playing ball. His movement is traced thoroughly in newspaper articles.

Hill didn't win any National Flight Tournament in 1925 - He moved to Miami that year and was just getting into archery. "History of the National Archery Association" by Robert Rhode doesn't support it. He won one in 1925. Thats all.

The first of seven wins in a row - "History of the National Archery Association" by Robert Rhode doesn't support it.

Claims Hill went on Moose hunt to Canada in 1925 - This hunt actually occurred in 1938 and is Chapter 20 [North of "53"] in "Hunting the Hard Way." He should have read the book.

Hill didn't shoot that buffalo from a horse with his bow in "Wild Adventure," According to Ned Frost who filmed it. Noted in "Tracks, Trails and Tales," "The Legacy of Ned Frost". Frost stated Hill was unable to shoot a buffalo from horseback, he shot it from the ground, mounted and shot an arrow, then rode up to the buffalo and jumped off. Look at the film, it shows the event in pieces.

Most of the article after Hill moved to California [1932 or so] is "basically" true from that a point forward, but embellished and puffed up so to make Hill sound super human. Hill was the real deal and didn't need any help from Zwoll. It made me winch reading some of the stuff.

In TJ's article "Howard Hill-The World's Greatest Archer," the inaccuracies from Zwolle's article apply here as well. Both depended heavily on Craig Ekin's "Howard Hill, The Man and the Legend," so both copied the same mistakes.

Hill graduated from Auburn[today's name] around 1922 and married Libby. They settled in Sylacauga, Alabama where he got a job working in the machine shops of the Avondale Mills. In 1925 they moved to Miami where he worked for Glenn Curtiss[not Hughes Tool Company] in his machine shops and later as a real estate salesman. He wasn't the golf pro at the Opa Locka Golf Course, he couldn't work two jobs. Beginning in 1927 he became the Archery Pro.

He didn't win a flight Tournament in 1925 and the seven after, he won his only one in 1928.

Again, Hill didn't go hunting in Canada and kill his first deer and moose. This was the 1938 hunt from Hill's book. He killed a young bull for the outfitter's winter meat supply.

Hill killed his first deer in 1930 in Canada.

Hill didn't shoot the buffalo from horseback. As noted in Ned Frost's book.

I'm not accusing Zwoll or TJ of anything sinister. They both much better writers than I. They relied on another's work instead of doing the research and they wrote bad press . And it's obvious Ekins book was the source of much of their miss-information.

Fact Definition:

1. A thing that is known or proved to be true.

2. Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.

Facts:

Hill born in 1899 Hill attended "Auburn" and graduated about 1922 Hill married Libby in 1922 Hill moved to Miami in 1925 Hill became archery pro at Opa locka in 1927 Hill killed his first deer in Canada in 1930 Hill and Frost filmed "Wild Adventure" im 1933

Anecdotal:

Hill played semi-pro baseball 7 or 10 years. Hill went on hunting trip to Canada in 1925 for deer and moose Hill made his first "real" bow in 1926. Hill worked for Hughes Tool Company Hill shot buffalo from horseback with longbow. Hill won 7 flight tournaments in a row Lots of Hill stuff anecdotal

What are my sources:

Written accounts from folks or relatives who knew Hill Magazine articles Newspaper articles Letters Books

Photo of the 3.5 inch binder with Hill's stuff, all in chronological order. Many pages of type written material.

Phillipshunt, you’re probably about the last person on Leatherwall to be complaining about first graders! Most of them could teach you a lot about spelling and grammar. LoL, indeed.

Cliff (Liquid Amber)— thanks for taking time to follow up and answer my questions. That adds to your credibility.

I’m no Hill scholar and apparently Wayne and TJ aren’t, either. Maybe someone should write an article or book called “Howard Hill—the Legend and the Myth.” No, wait— Frisky wouldn’t like that!

This article points to bigger problem. That is T.J. Conrad stepping down as editor of Tradtional Bowhunter. I hope this is not an example of what we may come to see from the magazine. This article was obviously a filler piece that was poorly done. Those of you who remember when M.R. James stepped down as editor of Bowhunter Magazine, the magazine took a slow decline into becoming Junk. I am a lifetime subscriber of Traditional Bowhunter .I have always thought the writing to be first class writing. I expect that to continue into the future. If not, I will have to reevaluate my subscription. Sorry if this sounds harsh but the truth needs to be spoken.

I canceled my subscription to TBM years ago.

I did not re-subscribeTo traditional bow hunter magazine is that article really turned me off and yes the magazine is turning into garbage

T J Conrads did not step down as editor of TBM it was co-editor Don Thomas. His replacement has been associated with the magazine for quite a while so they may have a good idea of his credentials.

TBM is still the best out there. It must be quite a challenge to continue an ehtity at the same level for 30 plus years. Look at forums - best days for most are in the archives. Good writers and posters get old, retire, die, get tired of the nonsense, whatever.

Why do they not sell hard copy’s anymore in stores? I been wondering why I haven’t been able to find any!!!

So TBM is garbage? And you think this thread is not?

My feelings aren’t hurt, I just don’t like self absorbed, narcissistic jackasses.

Riverwolf X2

This will keep me chuckling all day, thanks y'all.

I’ll add that on many of the Howard Hill threads and Fred Bear threads. Most of course is regurgitation of stories that have been told over and over. Both gentlemen earned their positions to have people wanting to tell those stories in the first place. No one will be telling exaggerated stories of me in 100 years.

But for example you hear tales of HH underwater bow hunting. Then you see the video and it has creative edits. Going from ocean shots to the shark in a small tank swimming lazily. Most likely tranquilized. Then the tails grow to HH killing sharks underwater with his bow.

Again, he was in that position because he was an amazing Archer. But tails grow taller on down the line. And writers back then were expected to glorify and stretch the stories a little.

Can I disown this thread?

I was disappointed when I received my new subscription. I always turned to G Fred Asbells article and there was none.

Phillipshunt, like you said, I'm not very good at research. I have not been able to locate any of your published articles. Please give us references so we can read your articles and see how a good article should be written.

Excellent!

Reddog, I had to howl at the Refrigerator Repairman parody. I also had to howl at some of the observations. Lotsa smart fellers on here.

Sounds like Leatherwall has an unofficial but self-appointed and self-absorbed Howard Hill expert... or maybe he’s just a HowardHillophile.

“right an article,” you said. Phillipshunt, you are a piece of work.

Liquid Amber knows his stuff! He has done the research and should be writing some pieces for us all to enjoy as I always enjoy his factual posts. It would be great if he wrote a letter to the editor pointing out the inaccuracies in his post above. Set the record straight. Try to make the magazine better instead of discounting the whole deal. TBM is one of the few national rags that let the average Joe write articles. I think this is good, but gets slippery when historical pieces are involved. Those with the knowledge and experience are better at writing those.

I don't know about you all but I am getting ready to dabble in some deer hunting..... think I'll brush up on some tips from Wayne....... maybe try some Howard Hill techniques.

Phillipshunt, now that you’ve shown everyone on Leatherwall how smart you are and the singular great bowhunter among us dabblers, why don’t you “right” a letter to the editor of TBM about your disappointment with the Howard Hill article?

That way you can share your genius and demonstrate your superiority to virtually the whole traditional archery world.

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