I’m looking for some real world data to help me shed a bias if there’s nothing to it…

As I’m looking into ILF, I have been pretty much disregarding a lot of wood riser options, just out of a concern over durability. But I don’t think I have heard of very many cases of them cracking or failing on people… But I have never asked directly..

Has that ever been a problem for any of you ILF guys?

FWIW, I’m probably thinking 15 inch or shorter if I go in this direction. There are so many, really good aluminum and carbon risers out there at 17 inches and up that the question becomes kind of moot.

So a wooden ILF riser is more or less prone to failure than a regular bolt down wood riser shooting the same draw weight.

I have only repaired one wood riser that had splits where the bracket screws were.It was not ILF but a Bear. ILF Shouldn't be any more or less prone to failure than any 3 piece takedown. >>>-----> Ken

That should read "is NOT more or less prone....."

I got you FDP I didn't even catch that until you pointed it out. I thought I was agreeing / repeating you. >>>-----> Ken

;).....

So you guys are on the same page saying that ILF poses no additional engineering challenges. So if I LIKE a wood riser, or if I can only get the right geometry from one, I needn’t worry about it.

So now I just have to figure out how heavy a riser I really want…. And what I can afford and how long I can stand to wait for it ;)

I have seen in past a couple WHITE FEATHER LARKS and some of there cousins made in the same factory from recycled wood we export to them develop cracks . One riser related to them I never seen or heard trouble from is the OMP CARBON Z15 . However most of the Chinese cheapies are not cut past center . If any don't believe me Google " white feather lark cracks . Personally I would run from those , risers and seek one from TIMBER HAWK , MORRISON, DRYAD s. Cox or whatever there called these days . There's some other decent nice risers in the $250 range and up but rite now there name escapes me. Remember me no expert just sharing my thoughts buyer beware . This is one of the many countless reasons I ' am a WF19 / WF21 riser shooter .

I had a Morrison 17" for years with no problems. Solid as a rock.

I've owned two. Both with LLAs, and the glue joint between the wood, and the composite Ibeam cracked right at the LLAs.

That was on fairly heavy draw weights, so it might not be a problem at lower draw weight.

I've also talked pretty extensively with a popular bowyer who builds a really nice ILF wood phenolic riser. He does not recommend his riser for use with draw weights over 55#.

Yeah, I am biased toward metal where takedown is concerned. Have had to many wood risers blow up in my hand at full draw, and have the scars to prove it.

Metal don't make my butt pucker. :-)

Rick

It probably makes some sort of good sense that a shorter wood riser might be stronger than a similar wood longer riser. Conjecture.

I recently read a hunting story in TBM and one guy had a wood Morrison ILF riser crack.

I recently read a hunting story in TBM and one guy had a wood Morrison ILF riser crack.

Not so much conjecture as leverage, I’d guess…

Cracking and glue-line failure seem like they would be a function of flex, so length has to be a Thing. Either that, or we’re wasting our time cutting down weak arrows.

Riser length-- draw weight--& a miniature draw length ;^) >>>-----> Ken

I have 2 Zipper ILF 17” wood risers. Had them 10-12 years, no problems at all !!

Success stories always welcome!

Are those all wood, or wood/phenolic? Somehow an I-beam makes a lot of sense…

I have two Border risers also - ILF 17" and 19" - and they are not I beam built and even if they are cut 5/16" past center I have no issues with them. My Border risers don't have LLA and they don't need it. Dryad has no LLA too. My previous White Feather Lark developed a crack in the phenolic but not the second one.

No more or no less than any other laminated wood takedown riser of the same construction.

I had a White Feather Lark crack on me. Tossed it. Wasn't much to begin with. My Dryad Epic is rock solid! I've taken that thing everywhere, multi-day backpack elk hunts, plane trips, car road trips, 3D shoots, etc. I would 100% buy one again. Not to mention it looks amazing. Price wasn't too bad either, I think I paid $275 used for it. Threw on a set of Bosen LB limbs and she's a real shooter!

Jason nice rigg . U R correct she is a beauty. Draven thanks for bringing up the BORDER ilf wood etc risers and their LLA or lack of it . Borders wood risers take a backseat to no others . The tip of the mountain no doubt. Their floating limb bolts , 8mm 5/16 cut par center, past through limb bolts , triple carbon designs , stab weights options, custom options, premium hardware, quiver mounting , brass self lubricant inserts, and they can also make them all the way up too 27" last I heard is as good as it gets . Almost forgot one can also get them with a centered bolt to adjust precisely arrow thickness, etc shooting off shelf. Borders pricey but imo worth every penny. A ton of thoughts, R&D etc goes into their products. In fact I know of a local gent here that has specifically requested when he passes be buried with his BORDER riser . BTW the the White Feather LARK makes decent kindling .

My Dryad sample of one has been solid.

When I was looking for a wooden ILF riser I worked with Chucks Custom Bows out of California. He builds a nice wooden ILF and is easy to work with, quick and reasonably priced. I sent him an old riser to copy the grip. He wasn’t concerned with me shooting 60-65@29 on his riser, and after several thousand arrows over a couple years and killing 8 big game animals with it I’ve had no issues. His comes with LLA, and if buying limbs from other than the bowyer I’d recommend getting one with LLA. I was surprised at how much I had to adjust that one way or the other to center limbs from different makers.

I know he builds a longbow.

The thing with limb pad angles and ILF is that by the nature of the system there is adjustability there, you just screw the bolt in more or less.

R

Chucks custom would be cheap Chinese knockoff limb approved, for the most frugal of archers. 30 -45 day wait time when most are 12+ months. A true gentleman’s choice. IYKYK

Chelo, I resemble that remark! (Frugal, not gentleman!)

The Chuck riser worked great with those Nika limbs.

R

Too bad he doesn’t offer a short version…. I’m All Good with Frugal.

I have an aluminum riser inbound now — or should have. That won’t be my Destination riser, because there’s still something about wood, but I’ll have some doo- dads and gee-gaws to play with for a bit, just for giggles….

My Dryad and Stalker Stickbow risers are solid- a little flex with the Dryad, no flex with that SS.

I broke 2 Buck Trails laminated wood risers....shooting long draw 30.5", and 50#'s.

I’m about ready to ask South if he can build an Epic 15” with a G10 I-beam….

He builds A&H risers in solid G10, Stalker risers in cool colored G10 too.

Yeah…. I may need to coax him into stepping outside of the box. Or maybe there is someone else out there who could solve the riddle for me?

I know South builds the 17" with the G10 embedded in the riser

if you are doing ILF you have the options to play with 3 different bow sizes, 58,60,62"..actually 4 with XL limbs.

Limbs are really the key to these bows...many options depending on the feel you like.

You could buy a cheapie 17" and dial in the limb you like while waiting for your SS riser.

I have a Discovery inbound; but have been told that an Epic 15” will hit the poundage & pre-load that I want from my limbs, so that’s kind of The Grail right now…. If I can find an alternative which does the same things, I’ll be happy. I’m just hoping to get to where I want to be with a wood riser at some point because A) my hands don’t handle the cold anymore and B) life is too short to hunt with an ugly bow…

But an I-beam of something like G10 might do what I need….

My 17 inch Epic has no problems after 4 years. I'm drawing only 48 lbs. It does have a phenolic (maybe diamond wood) beam. Made by South.

Jason... or anyone else who may know .. was looking at a set of the Bosen limbs and said they were based on a 25" riser.. how would that translate to a 17"Satori riser? Same rule apply? 2 LBS per inch down so 30# limbs to hit 45@28?

All thoughts welcome

25" down to 17" general rule of thumb is add 8 pounds OR SO, 1 pound per inch of riser length.

So 35# will get me in the low 40's and I draw 29 1/2 so that should get me pretty close - thank you!

35# on 25" riser will go ? 42-43# depending on limb bolts' settings, or 41# if limb pad angles are more relaxed....and add a bit for the over-28" DL.....these are not written in stone, things.

Im just starting to make my first ILF riser, although have built over 50 standard takedowns. So my question: What is LLA?

lateral limb adjustment. makers put small Allen set screws on opposing sides of riser outside of ILF hardware........tighten one side, loosen other side, to move ILF channel left/right, to get better sting centering if something is amiss.

The knee jerk reaction is to say “why do I need LLA (lateral limb adjustment) if the riser is straight”? From what I’ve experienced it’s not about the riser but the limbs. Were I going to only use limbs from the guy that built the riser probably less concern, but the whole point for fooling with ILF for me was to try some different limbs. I have only used aftermarket limbs. Every limb set I tried needed more or less LLA, but they all needed some. Saying that, my ILF experience is not as extensive as lots of folks on here.

R

I have one ilf set up I am having a hard time taming ..have not heard of,or tried lateral,adjustment- how would you know it was needed/or the answer?

They have gadgets you can buy to clip on the limb to check if the string is centered, but if you just look down the strung bow along the string you can visually center it pretty well. You adjust the LLA one way or the other to kick the limb butt right or left to assure the string is centered in the outward portion of the limbs, string grooves, and the tips. If it’s really off you can see it on a recurve if you draw the string halfway and watch the tips. Out of alignment shows up the same a twisted limb does. You should unstring the bow to adjust the LLA screws.

R

I just saw a wood riser over on the Gang that is wood and G-10. It’s got 90# @31” limbs on it. Bowyer does mention how he has had wood risers come apart mainly from being in dry climates. That I can relate to, have seen 2 BW’s and my cheapo Lark riser develop cracks. IF I was considering a wood rise I would stay away from the exotic woods that come from jungle climates.

Pat if you have not already adjust your tiller(s) correctly while your @ it . Its part of tameing the dragon . Something that ILF/vintage Hoyt / Das systems have over pre set recurves and LB.s .

Thanks guys! Ryan - your dads autographed books are two of my most prized possessions and I don't prize much!

Not to hijack this thread - I have a new Lark 15"riser I am working with but only 40# limbs so not putting too much stress on it - time will tell but so far so good!

Yeah…. I would be less concerned if I weren’t looking to hit low #60s. I figure since there are no limbs on offer rated above #65, my preferred #62-#63 probably puts me into the upper percentiles in terms of what I’m asking of the equipment. I doubt the mass-production imports are built with my application in mind, so Shame On Me if I were to buy something and use it in ways that the manufacturer never envisioned for it.

I figure if I were to get an aluminum riser from someone manufacturing them stateside, I could simply ask what their upper limit looks like; and if I order something from a custom bowyer, I can tell him what I’m thinking and he can either beef up the design as needed, or tell me to shove off… Because JMO, that’s entirely Fair.

Corax_latrans, take a look at Bigfoot Bows. Kirk is the one I mentioned about the 90# limbs. He isn’t afraid to make heavy bows.

As long as he can keep Eyes On The Prize….

I’ll go prowl his site ;)

Drat. Shortest offered is 17”….

Corax, FYI note that Samick Discovery risers come with Aluminum limb bolts, known for galling and breaking at higher poundages. Most who get the risers and use a lot or with heavy weight limbs upgrade to steel. https://www.alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0012120.4.13939489540120124733/SAMDISLB

Thanks, Spike! Hearing that from others as well, so I’ll have to inspect carefully. The riser is supposed to come with some spare bolts, so that may already have been addressed…..

If you are dead set on a wood combo riser, get one similar to this, where the ILF receivers, and LLAs are in a solid block with no glue line running through or along their sides.

Me - I would just go all metal and be done with it never to have to worry. :-)

Rick

Well, that certainly is the prevalent design…

I’ve been thinking that it’d make more sense (from a rigidity standpoint) to put the phenolic into an I-beam… but if a riser is gonna flex, it’s going to happen in the throat of the grip, right? Because that’s The Middle, and it’s also where there is the least material to resist flexing. Practically speaking, you could just about replace the wood portion of that riser with jello and it wouldn’t cost you any rigidity. The GRIP would be a little awkward, I suppose… ;)

So if there were to be any separation along that phenolic-wood line, it seems that would suggest that they just need a thicker slab of phenolic out front…

And to Frank’s earlier point, a shorter riser would be stiffer for the same reason that a shorter arrow is…

I've wondered for a long time why folks don't make the ILF fitting pad as a separate component to attach to the riser.

Frank, they actually do. These are not intended for such, but could easily be used to warf just about any riser to ILF

Warfing a metal riser with them would be a breeze, but I have actually thought about doing a wood riser with them.

Rick

yeh, I've had several with the total limb pad separate from riser, metal risers / DAS warfs. ME TOO I've wondered why folks aren't using the DALAA pads on wood risers.

I have seen the brass fitting/dovetail, but not the block that it is in in the picture.

You could fabricate the limbpad block with the dovetail in it and then add it to any riser...hmmm....

one of mine with DAS Dalaa pads installed on a Pearson Equalizer cut to fit them. Could do it with the 3Rivers Dalaa ILF pads as well. same bolt pattern either way.

my better DAS Pearson Equalizer.

Thanks for sharin pic's etc Steve . Its been a good thread Corax started . I dang sure been enjoying it ........

“ I dang sure been enjoying it ........”

Probably the dope slaps most of all, though, right?? ;)

lol .....

Don't think it's been mentioned here and I never seen one live or know of any body that's owned one but just remembered the Ryan Roosing wood ilf riser offerings on FB look at least to me real nice . Anybody here own one ? Care too comment on them ? ....

I've been shooting a Timberhawk for awhile and I really recommend it. It's the 19" . It's the best wood riser around in my opinion.

A while ago there was a TIMBERHAWK TALON riser. on d TT blanket for sale . Don't know if it's still available.

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