Please read carefully before you respond. I would like your thoughts on where our sport is headed considering the super low prices on bows coming from China and Korea. Please do not turn this into a debate on the ethics of buying from these countries, no one will win that argument. I would like to know how you think these inexpensive bows might effect the custom bows made here in USA. I have heard opinions both ways, the cheap bows might allow more people to afford to get into the sport because of the low prices. Some believe these bows will drive some of the USA bow makers out of business. Bottom line question is: "Is our sport better off in the long run or worse off because of these foreign bows?"

Better off both in the short run and long run.

"I would like to know how you think these inexpensive bows might effect the custom bows made here in USA." I think they are two different markets: one of affordability, the other of high end materials and workmanship. Economical bows do not seem to have slowed the custom bow market considering the lengthy wait times.

"Is our sport better off in the long run or worse off because of these foreign bows?" I think the sport is better off because economical bows open the sport to many people who are archers that can't or would not consider a custom bow.

I think it's good for traditional archery. It lets more people try our sport so maybe more will learn to like it. In the future the same people who started out with an affordable starter bow may end up purchasing a custom or high end bow. Looks like a good thing for everyone.

<$100 Asian stickbows sell like hotcakes. $600 American bows do not. One of the dudes on the current $39 stickbow thread said he bought ten $39 bows for the club. Well, it's a good thing getting folks into stickbow archery.

It's NOT a good thing for an American mom and pop to fold because they can't begin to compete with Asian pricing. But that's todays world. We are discussing this on Asian computers and cell phones.

Hard to say at this point. They're still feeling us out and haven't begun to saturate the market yet. On another thread they had them for $39.00. Wait 2-3 years and you'll get a better idea.

I think it's the death knell for most custom bowyers (the ones selling out now are too late)there will always be a few I'm sure.The future is steady for most niche hobbies imo.I even worry about the future of Bear Archery.

Better off. The more folks in our sport, the better. They may upgrade at a later date. The smart shops offer some of these low cost bows like Big Jim, Twig, etc

^^^ The shops that do this build a client base for future purchases, not just bows, but arrows and other accessories.

I have mixed feelings on the subject. On one hand I see folks my age getting into archery as way to keep themselves active. It’s hard for most of them to afford $500+ for custom or top of the line bows. On the other side I see these inexpensive bows are not made with the best of materials or quality care. But, on a good note one of the ladies asked me about a Hoyt target bow or something in that class.

I have seen more than once these imported bow that people get, start to shoot, and end up buying New Custom Bows or Bear bows for those that can afford them. Guys who had never shot Traditional, now have 2,3,or 4 bows all do to the imports. These are great for our sport, plus they are a lot more affordable than Compounds in getting a individual or family into shooting. That is the one thing with Traditional Archery compared to Compounds and all the pieces parts you have to buy to shoot them, it is inexpensive by comparison in today's market. We all know though we can make it expensive ;"). I would rather see someone stick their toe in the water and try it out, then never bother to try. These bows allow that. DANNY

If this was hurting custom bowyers, they wouldn’t all be one to two years behind in filling orders. A friend of mine is a manager of an archery shop. They sell Bear stickbows and they sell a lot of them. From what I see in the real world (not my feelings) there’s not much damage being done by imported bows. Fifty-five years ago I was working in the automotive business and we were convinced that Toyota and Datsun would destroy American manufacturing. Reckon that didn’t happen either. Folks, there’s a lot more in today’s world to worry about than a Chinese bow.

I think the biggest effect of the import bow business is that it gives a lot of people with a little money to enjoy and participate in archery and bowhunting.

Where can you buy a custom bow for $600 ?

My gateway drug was the OG cheap Korean bow, the Samick Sage (okay it was a PSE Nighthawk--same thing). Five years later, I'm four custom bows in with two more on the way. Had the price of admission not been so cheap, I probably never would have picked up a bow and discovered how much I love archery. Many of my archery friends followed a similar trajectory.

And as for a $600 custom: Falco! First custom I got and still my most beautiful. Woods and specs I wanted with two strings shipped from Estonia for $600. Not US made of course, but still an awesome bow made by an awesome dude.

Chise's bow's

https://www.chisesbows.com/

I would submit that the vast majority of custom bow owners weren't just looking for any bow to hunt with. You want something special, and that performs to a better standard.

There is a low end, and high end to every piece of sporting equipment out there. Fishing, badminton, volleyball...there's always a low cost, beginner level product that will suffice. As their skills improve, so goes the quality level of the equipment.

Better in the long run.

I dont think its hurting the custom usa bowyers if anything its helping them. So many new people coming into this buy a cheap chinese bow to get hooked then next thing you know they are calling up a custom bowyer. Look at Big Jims wait time along with many others now its over a year or more. I think the sport is growing for sure. We have even seen an increase locally here.

I just bought my first 2 Chinese bows for under $40 each this week after being a long time spectator. For the price they are awesome. I'm more concerned about the future of our wages in general (bowyers included ) and survival of the American middle class with leisure time to enjoy life and things like archery and hunting for all of us and our children. I wonder if the folks building Black Hunters can afford to buy one and enjoy archery on their time off work? I kinda doubt it and I have to think think it could actually happen to us in the not so distant future. I do hope I'm wrong!

There will always be a demand for goods at a specific price point, archery is no different.

China sees the world as a global marketplace. Perhaps America should do the same.

While I've said this before, it still has a bearing on the conversation. Before COVID here in Michigan we were getting a bow into the hands of about 2000 new shooters a year in a variety of outreach programs. Most of my stable of teaching bows are customs that I've had made to teach 3yr olds up to adults. We are not talking a couple bows here. We are talking 35-40! I've invested $1000s of dollars to promote traditional archery. But I have a number of low end imported bows that I also use along w/ the customs just to show the new shooter that they can enjoy the sport with out a huge investment up front. Having said that, I do not know of a single archer who has taken up the sport that has not moved on to a high end custom at some point in their archery experience. We know from this forum that there are some who will choose a Black Hunter over a Black Widow or a Montana over a PLX. That is human nature. To each his own, but affordability is key in participation of any past time. Imports allow more people to do just that. If they make the right connections within the sport, relationships with people and organizations, they will indulge more in its activities. Volunteering in their chosen organization and purchasing better equipment. As far as its impact on custom bowyers, I doubt that there is a avenue for tracking its effect. It is simply a business risk that some are willing to take. If anything the saturation of used custom bows on the market would likely be more of a concern. (Ask Harley Davidson owners about those economic results.)

These comments make me sad for our sport. Archery is not expensive to get in to. It all boils down to supporting USA made and if you choose to or not. Look at 3 rivers, most of their catalog used to be USA made items only. Now it’s half Chinese crap. They know people don’t care anymore about supporting USA so they are keeping up With the times the best they can. The only option other than a cheap Chinese made bow is not a custom bow, you can find plenty of used bows for 100.00 to get started. This is very bad for the traditional retailers here in the USA. I never have and never will buy any archery products made in China or Korea. Our grandfathers generation would be ashamed of us. USA made only.

Better. Not the same thing as a custom, Bear, or Howatt. No Chinese bow will replace a Bear 59er, A Black Widow, or ASL. They also have virtually no resale value. I have a Black Hunter, great bow. When it comes time too go shooting I'd rather take my Korte recurve, Chapparal, Vixen, Half breed ASL, etc. I do buy them on impulse, fun to mess around with.

I feel like it's great for our sport and I don't think it will affect the custom market, but I can definitely see it hurting the midrange market like bear archery.

Here in America, we can buy Cadillacs and Mercedis, we can also buy Hyundai. We have high end and low end everything here. In the Trad bow market, the cheaper imports open the door for a lot more people, and we will have a much bigger and better archery community. That said, I would like to see cheaper components (fiberglass and core lams) for base line bows in this country so that we could keep more of the market.

Governments of some countries assist their industries in acquiring large chunks of the market. In many cases it results in destroying the local market. I was involved with the textile industry for years before it was almost completely destroyed. Burlington Industries was the largest textile industry in the world. Where are they now? Guilford Mills was very prominent in our local area. Where are they? They, and most others have been driven out of business. Of the 5 businesses that I worked for, none of them survived.

Eventually, we started a Mom and Pop textile plant which survived for more than 10 years. We were approached by a national conservation club, to make a reusable all cotton mesh bag. We were told that the market was huge, and that their overseas source had dried up. I told them that we could do it, but that it would take about a month to set the machinery. Guess what? After setting up the equipment, and running off several thousand bags, our partner came in with an add by Kmart advertising the same, but lower quality product, from an overseas supplier, for less than half the price. That killed the product, and put us in a bind.

I use overseas products whenever there is no alternative. But it's important not to sacrifice our industries on price alone.

PSE has been importing inexpensive 3 piece Korean made recurve bows for 20 years. During this same time Black Widow has grown considerably.

Plain and simply it’s not good. Pittman Robertson taxes are not paid on these and we should be proud of doing so. A used American bow is a better option

Dominance is the plan. Think phones,appliances,computers,clothing, TV's automobiles. Even the american branded autos are built with foreign made parts. Yes later on they will upgrade, like you upgrade all of the above. Better think again. No one is building upgrades now. The products/jobs are lost. While our leaders are raking in millions we are being ensnared. You better pay attention to this next election. Who has made 30 some visits to China taking students to study under communist teachers & China footing the travel bill? >>>-----> Ken

Yes, we all have many Chinese made products in our homes, but until Amaxon, we were buying these from American companies that paid taxes here in the US.. sure, they were a little more expensive, but the country benefits from this. Now we can buy items directly from a Chinese distributor and only a very small amount goes to Amaxon hence the country benefits are incredibly small. The US retailers are being circumvented and that is what will put us out of business.

As far as good for archery, yes, at least for a while. Those that care about quality and workmanship will gravitate to custom bowyers. It will however hurt the used market a bit.. why buy a $300 used bow.. or cheaper, to get started when you can buy one for $100?

BigJim

BJ do you collect pittman robertson tax on the imports you sell? I assume you do.

They don't necessarily build inferior either. Check out Korean & Chinese archers. They don't accomplish that with junk. >>>----> Ken

NM

Where does the money come from? Pittman-Robertson Act funds are derived from federal excise taxes collected from manufacturers and importers on the following items:

So I'm pretty sure these companies are paying taxes

I got a Black Hunter light weight bow to help build up my strength after I was sick. It's actually a nice, good shooting bow after I put a good string on it that I made.

I really do have mixed feelings about it. As much as I would like to own and shoot a high end custom bow I can't justify the expense. Rarely is a pre-owned one available in the length and draw weight that I need and even on the used market they bring more than I can spend. That more or less pushed me into compromising and buying a set of Chinese made limbs for a BB riser with ilf plates. I have less than $300 in it and it will probably shoot as good or better than most of the high end customs, it's not as pretty and it doesn't come with the pride of owning an American made masterpiece but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Doubt it effects big custom bowyers. People by a Widow because it's a Widow, and those bows will never have that going for them. But it's really hard for new bowyers. I don't think Mad Dog bows could even get off the ground today, and they were the go to twelve years ago.

The wait time can be an issue for some of us for custom bowyers, too.

At Omega Longbows, as of Sept 31, 2024, Kegan's website is saying he's taking orders for December 2024 builds with a six week delivery.

I can say from experience, having four of them, that he is very good about his delivery times.

I can sure live with that.

The issue for me is a 12 month plus delivery. I'm 72 and had a go around with colon cancer in 2019. They tell me I'm fine but I don't even buy green bananas any more ;)

If I was forty, it might be different, but for me a year wait cuts into what I think my are remaining good shooting years.

I am really lucky that I love Kegan's bows, can afford them and handle the wait times (which in his case is great IMHO), I love shooting them and prefer them to any factory bow. If they weren't an option and I needed or wanted another bow, I'd likely look at something more readily available.

Most of the stuff I own is made in the U S A , the rest is from new york or california .

Now that's funny...!

Bearman has it right. An arguement for 'better in the short term' could be made, but overall it's bad for archery in the USA period.

My first recurve was a Sage bought at a big hunting , fishing and outdoor gear store in northern Michigan named Jays . My next two bows were customs , a Bruin and a Predator . Now I also have a couple vintage bows and a couple more chinese cheapos . Only one of my bows was purchased online the rest were from an archery dealer-store. Low cost mass produced foreign made bows are a good thing , IMO. Especially when purchased thru a U.S. based dealer . Jimmy jump up , Seven Lakes Archery and Kanati bows start at around $600 along with a few others .

Do not worry, they have no idea about bows, they can not shoot any bow. Koreans, never seen a bow in their life. We are the best, we know everything....Globalizatin works for us, nobody can compete with US!

$39 bow with lots of goodies. That's a smokin' deal few will pass up because 'Made in China'. Walmart, Costco, Sams, Depot, Lowes are jam packed with Asian goods. People don't country of origin a thought.

Until they have a problem. "This Asian POS!" lol

I knew some would not stick to the point of this thread.

Just my humble opinion, not sure if anything will keep this sport alive as we know it, it may come back somewhere down the road after the newfangled machinery takes it's run. Certainly cheap will prevail.to spark interest, I haven't seen a recurve, longbow hunter in the woods in years unless it was one of my buddies..

It's happening in fly fishing also. Some very nice inexpensive fly rods and reels from overseas manufacturers that perform way above what there price would suggest.

Sears & Roebucks an American Icon. There used to be a catalog in every household. I was with my wife to return something. She was having a problem it took a while. I was spending the time looking through the mens wear. I noticed everything I picked up was foreign made. I made a game of it & just started searching labels.Never found a single item made in U.S.A. Most were Pakistan & Mexico. Roebuck jeans used to be a favorite. Made in Mexico. Now where is Sears where are the jobs? Where do you find U.S.A. made clothing? Just saying. >>>----> Ken

I once bought an all bamboo semi recurve in about 1952 from Malibu Archery in California. It had great cast, light weight, and pretty accurate. It was probably made in Korea, or possibly Japan. In the case of buying that bow again, I wish that I could. It was a quality, but expensive bow. Today we are getting a lot of bows imported of various quality. Heaven help the custom bowyers today.

And why would you not expect that, John?

I have my new bow, Buck Trail Sagos takedown, similar to the Samick Sage. 60 bucks to my door. Shoots better or as good as my custom made bows like Asbel Bighorn, Jim Brack Legend, Jack Kempf hunter, South Cox Wolverine fxt and on and on. The difference customs have nicer wood and 6 to 10 times more cost. Go ahead and make your wise decisions!

John Returning to your original question, I believe the accessibility of budget Chinese an Koreans bows can only be a good thing ... and I can give an example ...

For over 50 years I shot the English long bow, but there came a time when I wanted to try something completely new and different. I wanted to deep dive into the whole world of historic and ancient horse bows, thumb rings and shooting off the right side of the bow thing.

I was able to buy and have delivered for free, an Assyrian style bow and a set of bamboo arrows from a period of history I've loved since childhood for less than £100 (UK).

And so began a whole new chapter of learning and exploration in my lifes archery journey.

Let's see here. I could spend $39 on a bow plus goodies. Or $390. Hmmmmm.. Dang man now that's a real tough choice. Gotta think hard on that one. lol

Started my carpentry career in June 1973. For the ~first decade every tool I bought was made in the States. Not just carpentry but ALL tools. Drop cords, ladders, nails. Everything.

Last couple decades that pretty much totally reversed. The tsunami of Asian goods flooded this country. I initially despised that. Now I could care less. I bet there are a lot of guys that think the same way. It's a world economy now and that's just the way it is.

You are absolutely right it is a world economy. The sad fact is we are on a fast track to becoming a third world country & fully dependent on them. Do you think all the goods in China & Korea are made in the U.S.A. ? Things are getting very lopsided. >>>----> Ken

I know next to nothing about the cheap bows. Or cheap cars or cheap tractors, etc. I will continue to buy gear that I have some familiarity with and leave the cheap stuff alone. I'm in the market for a 5 amp hour 20 volt Dewalt battery. I can find identical looking batteries that have over a hundred dollar price difference from the cheapest to the highest priced. The reason for the big price spread is because one certain country is producing batteries that looks 99% like the genuine product. Once you remove the outer layers, you find what really is going on and why they are so cheap. In this day and age, we have to do our homework on nearly everything that we purchase through an on-line vendor.

Sure, this junk is going to have an effect on custom bowyers and long-time archery gear companies. Stop buying the crap, and it will go away.

Yep. One thing about manufacturing is, a life of labor - being productive regardless of vocation- makes people tough. IMO we are presently in the 'weak men create hard times' part of the cycle, and that right there is the prime reason we have such a flaky ass society.

Yes I'm way off topic. Outta this thread

2 bears has nailed this very nicely.

Global economy, Global marketplace,, are just buzzwords used by Congress, the media and other Globalists'. It's been a "Global Economy" since man discovered travel centuries ago, trading goods and services,( bronze, steel, wood, spices, animals, people and a big list of other things) between countries has always taken place. It's nothing new. This country's manufacturing has been sold out, traded to and given away to others by our government for a long time. Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, Viet Nam, France, Canada, just a small list of countries that have benefited. "That's just how it is", "It's a Gobal Economy" It cost too much to make here" are phrases that have allowed our medicine and a host of other products to be made in foreign countries which concerns me more than a few cheap archery products that are starting to flood the market.

Options are good. A good bow at a low price is a good option now and into the long run.

Not exactly. Trade started, to get goods that you didn't have for goods that you had plenty of. The individuals trading determined the value of each others goods. Tariffs,taxes, subsidies, & price controls came along because they know better than us what we should make & what we should keep & what % they should get. Is there really any trade involved??? There are boat loads of money involved.

My uncle a truck driver with his own rig told me that many times he would haul a load of tomatoes or other produce drop it off & pick up a load of the same thing to haul back. He had a turnaround job from Chicago to Philly. Do you recon the final customer made a savings on them???? ;^) >>>----> Ken

We are a pussy society now for sure.

Yes

yes, better off

While I like to buy from local (or US) shops rather than simply taking the absolute lowest price on the auction site or Amazon, the availability of less expensive bows of reasonable quality makes it easier for me to keep a bunch around so kids and visitors can shoot and have some fun. Some of them may get interested and add to the demand for high end bows. For what it's worth, I think the availability of good value carbon shafts, like Big Jims Dark Timbers, has saved me a lot of time making and replacing 5/16 lightweight shafts for those kids.

I don't worry about foreign countries flooding us with unnecessary items like bows, but crucial items are a different concern.

Well you can buy China beer in America now if you want to. I won’t be buying any Chinese beer. But I did buy a Black Hunter T/D long bow and was very impressed with it. And that’s when they were $99.00. I like The nostalgia that goes with a vintage American made bow. Like a Bear or a Pearson. You just won’t ever get that with a China bow. I traded my Black Hunter away. It was a good bow. I’d just rather shoot an old Classic American made bow. That’s what I like;)

For those interested in the Chinese beer. iIts called Snow beer and it’s Brewed in China.

For those interested in the Chinese beer. iIts called Snow beer and it’s Brewed in China.

The affordable china and korean bows IMHO are good quality and no different that the bows any archery shop had hanging up for first time archers only cheaper. My first trad bow was a H.F. Takedown, not cheap. Held me back from buying my next true custom bows a few yrs, then the addiction set in and about a dozen bows in. Will allow them to get in cheap. One they start shooting in clubs and outdoor shoots and get friendly with other archers and see what they are shooting they'll be hooked and we all know once hooked and you will buy custom.

I think most of the ppl buying these Chinese bows have a dozen on the rack at home. Most are not newbies imo. There's always high end used widows,ilf for sale from ppl testing the waters. You think old timers are all buying super curves and g10 risers?? Lol just my opinion. If a guy is coming from a compound they won't think much of spending $1k on a bow

Chinese beer is brewed with Chinese water. Considering how polluted Chinese water is from manufacturing schmitt for the entire freekin planet, I'll pass. And, I won't even begin to trust any sales BS about the purity of the water it's brewed with. Think 'Camp Lejeune'.

And speaking of health, keep in mind half of Chinese workers are smokers. They don't give a sh%$ about their health, they're puffing away while keeping the GNP freight train moving. Unlike a massive number of Americans. :/

Back on point and I"m to blame for straying off,,anyway. The Samick Sage has been around for a while I guess, I've owned both a '56 Kodiak and a '56 Pearson T/D which had woven glass for the limbs, both bows shot great and performed very nicely. Do the Black Hunters give any indication that they'll last 10 years or more? Just askin'.

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here