I been shooting recurves exclusively since 1989 and been seeing post about how good of a shot some of you are. Well I'm not a good shot (shoot instinctive) and only good on deer kill zone out to 25 yds! How do you dead eyes get so much better than this and no I'm not going to gap shoot? My hunting is eastern hardwoods and shots are typically under 20 yards.But I like shooting long distance for practice and can shoot a shot or 2 accurate at 30+ yds then it slides to purgatory :) Anyhow lets hear it???

I’m not a good shot either. But it’s ok, I’m not a target archer. Long shots do not interest me. I like to get so close that I CANT miss, and I don’t.

That is me too Dendy!

I agree with my friend Dendy.

20 yards and in is where I do most of my practicing. I like to shot my bow and I like to shoot it far sometimes. If I miss a clump of grass in the field behind the house at 90 yards it's no big deal. I practice to not miss the game I shoot at 20 yards and in.

For me, the only way I get better at doing something is to keep doing it. I shoot everyday and sometimes twice a day. It's not work if you like doing it.

If I wanted to get better at shooting long distances, I would have to really do it alot. YMMV. Best of luck to you and happy shooting.

You don't need to conform to someone else's idea of what archery is, it's different to all of us in one way or another. All that matters is you're doing what you want to do and having fun doing it. Some of us do, or did have interest in field and target archery, some of us don't, and it's all okay. I'm having my coffee right now and thinking about fishing. :)

Me Three DENDY

The "real scores" at 3D shoots tell a different story, than the "real stories" on the Leatherwall

But I do like shooting 3D some in the summer when it is to hot to fish for muskys here.

My main concern is bowhunting and being dead accurate at 30 yards and closer. Most of the woods I bow hunt in a 30-yard shot is a long shot because of the terrain and vegetation. I do shoot past 30-yards every once in a great while just for fun but not too often. I contribute my success and accuracy to practice, practice, and practice.

I'm a hunter not a target shooter, I try to be as good as I can be at what will actually be my shots taken for real. I might would take a shot at 20 yards but it has to be a everything is just perfect shot. I used to be pretty darn good but those days are over, it is what it is. Back when 3 D first came out, I shot with my hunting bow with hunting weight arrows. I still do but mainly 20 and under with a lot more at 10 yards. The object is for me to get close enough to keep my shots around 10 yards. Reality is reality.

I blew 2 shots last year in my limited hunting times, both times the deer ducked. Both times the deer had his head down. Both times I went for a double lung shot and should have gone for a lower heart shot. One buck was shot thru the back strap area and I got pics of him afterwards and he is back again in my cameras. No matter the hobby or sport, there are always those that are experts or at least they make themselves out to be.

like a lot of people, most of my game has been hard won. All totally wild and not in some high fenced in area where they are fed and protected. I remember back in the early 80's when I hunted hard just to see a deer, took almost 5 weeks (includes working on a job). Now we have lots of deer.

I am with you hunters. Sometimes it is easy to get caught up in the target archery. And there is nothing wrong with that but they hunting and target archery are two different games. I shoot instinctive too. Levi Morgan is a good shot.

at 15 yards

X3 Dendy and Nemo

I am very much like the OP. I do however gap when shooting fish under water, and if woods roving for fun tend to gap at inanimate targets beyond 40 yards or so.

The internet has been instrumental in creating many champions. But I’m in the camp with Dendy, Supernaut, Nemo and others. I’m a hunter , I like close the most. It’s fun to shoot long but my serious concern is 20 and under.

Just an observation- not an insult, accusation, or jab of any kind. There were several threads started that allowed for different folks to share their successful hunts and days afield. Some of the best leatherwall “hunters” and “archers”were not present there. There is fact. And there is fiction.

"The internet has been instrumental in creating many champions" yes it has :)

Sawtooth (Original) X2.

Everyone seems to do it differently. I practice as close as 2 to 3 yards and a little bit at 35 yards, occassionally 40 yards, and stump shooting maybe out to 60 or farther. But most of my practice is 10 to 25.

The main thing is for me, I want to be deadly at 3 to 15 yards, maybe 20.

Dead animals pics don’t lie either BT. If you are a hunter ??

I admit I an’it that great of a shot either but I shoot “instinctively “, no gap, no 3 fingers under gun barrelling, no “fixed crawl”. But I wouldn’t be afraid to shoot a game animal 20 yards or under. No, I don’t have pictures on my phone of groups I shot, or pictures of killed critters. Don’t care what other people think , I only answer to ME.

Nothing wrong with trying to be the best you can and strive for that. Nothing wrong with being comfortable and confident in hitting good in hunting distances and calling it good. Some people like to and are just looking for that perfect shot/setup/arrow/bow. It is just the way they are wired. I am a hunter only. I shoot and practice for hunting. But, I drive myself nuts at times because I am a perfectionist and need to step back to reality at what is good and what is overboard. But, the more overboard I go, the better I am at shooting.

I'm with you, Jack. I'm not a great shot beyond my effective hunting range, about 25 yards, just deadly, versatile, and content within it. Shooting farther is fun and helpful, but I wouldn't say I'm a great shot out there, and that's ok by me.

It's telling how some people here think folks they've never met should be thirsty for their approval. Maybe seek therapy.

I also practice practice and practice I like my hunting targets 30yrds and under I especially like 20yrds I am very good at that range

I shoot combat pistol range with stickbow all the time.

Off topic. I shoot my handguns at combat pistol distance all the time as well. Handguns were designed for close range self defense. Shooting pop cans with a handgun at 35 yards off a bench is stunt use of a weapon designed for off hand close combat. Same deal with stickbow. It's a close range weapon for me. I don't shoot it at rifle range.

By scoring standards I'm not a great shot. I don't have an aiming system other than staring at what I want to hit and I'm not going to shoot five arrow groups into a 1" circle at 20 yards. But, like many others, I'm focused on hunting, not target competition.

That said, I really like stumping and shooting at 30, 40 or more yards as much as possible.I just love watching the arrow fly and all practice at long ranges just seems to make the normal hunting distance shots so much easier.

Jack -

If you really want to get better, the odds are you're going to have to change something and probably do a few things you're not going to like. Unless you're willing to do that, "X" number of years experience, actually means 1 year of experience repeated "X" number of times. See the difference?

Viper out.

Shoot with good form. Learn your equipment, and practice, and more practice. Your set on not gap shooting, or string walking, so that leaves good form,focus, and practice at the distance you want to improve.

Yeah I hear you Viper-but no need to really change anything, this accuracy works for the way I hunt. I have been to some of the biggest 3D shoots and seen how accurate people really are/are not and think I'm actually doing fine.

I don’t think Jack needs to do anything different if he wants to just shoot critters at 20 yards or less. Once you get good form it’s then just repetition but then again I am not a teacher of the sport

Shooting , and hitting the x ring consistently with a hunting bow, or a target bow can be quiet the task at 30+ yds. I think you doubt whether many can from watching shooters at 3d shoots, and your own experience. At that distance as said above most hunters focus on 20 yds, and in, and for good reason. I would think most hunters that want to extend their hunting range with a recurve bow to 30+ yds. practice at that distance long, and hard enough, and can become good enough to make the kill.(Pie plate accuracy). I no longer hunt ,but in the last 10 years that I did I used a 45lb. sinew backed Osage bow with self made arrows, and passed on a standing broad side shot on a really nice buck that turned out to be 29 yds. I was good for 20 yds, and in with that set up. I expected to get another chance at that buck, but never did.

Some days I can’t miss but others I can’t hit a barn door. The stickbow struggle is real or at least for me it is.

Bob, you’d be surprised what a handgun is capable of. Tell that to the guys shooting 50yd slow-fire at Camp Perry. Same with archery.

I have open sight revolvers I shoot freehand at 75 yards and more... but they're not short compact self defense types or 5" revolvers... but I love those ones too :^) I do like a variety of peestolas. Different tools for different jobs.

By the same token, if I wanted to shoot competitive long range target archery, I wouldn't use snakey osage selfbows and heavy hickory arras either so...

I'm happy in my lane :)

Didn't I read ( on the WALL) that the AVG harvest range for MOST North American Game animals is 17 yards or so? Just sayin' ?

Shooting 20 yards and under AND sticking with one bow and arrow combo work works very well, however switching to different setups and shooting longer distances is best done with an aiming system.

"deer kill zone out to 25 yds! How do you...get better than this?"

JW jr. asked HOW... do you shoot well beyond 25 yards?

I use an aiming system and imitate Kisik Lee's shooting technique. The aiming system adjusts for elevation and the shooting technique builds consistency. I string walk for ping pong balls at 10 yards, and face walk for targets beyond my point on distance. I poke at a 3D turkey at 50 yards, an elk at 60 yards, and we have a lion at 69 yards this year. We also have a 122cm target at 100 yards. I shoot for thrills with ten different bows.

I responded to the OP, I am not suggesting that anyone else change the way or distance that they shoot.

Agree to all , I do practice to 30-35. Only because if my form is weak I can’t hide it.

It doesn't hurt to understand that some of us, actually many of us grew up during field archery times. Field archery was started by bowhunters for bowhunting practice, something that few seem to understand among today's archery folk. A little research will show that started (NFAA) about 1939 to separate themselves from what they called "target shooters". That ring a bell with some of you? Anyway, I've never found that taking long shots in practice ever hurt a guy's short yardage practice.

I've also found that good hunters never need to shoot very far, my longest shot was about 30 yards and many or most around 15, and that's over 58 years of chasing bucks; I haven't shot a doe since 1981, and since we don't eat deer meat, it makes little sense to kill one deer a year, much less half a dozen. I shoot long shots only for fun anyway, and I seriously doubt I'll regret that on my last day of life. You're mileage may vary of course and that's just fine with me also.

I have a lot of respect for all archers who represent the sport ethically, and I couldn't care less how big their kill numbers are, it's all been done before a million times by millions of bowhunters. My personal ethic tells me "my" hunting isn't a spectator sport, and sorry if that don't suit you, but that's your issue and not mine.

I wish everyone a safe and successful year, whatever that means to you. I don't have to agree with you, nor you with me to respect each other's choices. Stay safe, and stay healthy.

A clear bullseye for focus and one yard at a time. I start where I can hit good then move back yard are two tell I get it then back another 1 or2.

I agree with George in full. Well said.

Alot of what we see on the internet now especially videos, are cut and copy of all the good shots. In reality those guys are probably not as good as the internet shows them. I grew up shooting a bow and fell in love wth the flight of an arrow. I had red bear recurve in my hand by the time I was 4 or 5. I shot split fingers until high school, then I got into chasing the next best gadget at the archery shop. I wound up with a release aid, shot compound for years. Then I came back to shooting tradtional, I picked up an ole Kodiak Hunter my Dad had. I remember walking out on the front porch not knowing much of anything shooting a group of not tuned arrows at about 12 yards all in the kill zone on the target shooting split fingers. I shot like that for a while then got on then internet , I believe I got worse after that. With that being said I have learned alot on the internet but have also learned to enjoy the experience and find what works for you. Shoot Straight Matthew 7

Jack.. Check out the thread by Jeffer, My take on the subject I just brought it to the top..

If you watch a world class NFAA shoot now you see archers shooting top of the line equipment, and at the longest distance shots they all have their hands full. It puts long distance bare bow shooting in to perspective after you have watched an event ,or two.

Watch Lajos Kassai on youtube. That dude can shoot a stickbow.

We are all in the game for different reasons. Like George, I shot NFAA field archery in the 60s and 70s because besides hunting, it was the only game in town. For us, a 35-40 yard shot was a chip shot.

I don't hunt much anymore but do shoot a ton of 3-D and I've seen targets out to 65 yards (Baltimore Bowmen canyon shot) so I've learned to shoot a gap system which allows me to hit almost every target. I may not get 10s or 11s but generally hit animals at long yardages. I also got tired of skimming arrows off of a foam deer's back into the swamp at 25 or 30 yards.

So that's my bag. I respect what others do too.

Well said George! I am all in on that!

Another well said George, I also shot NFAA(10-80 yds) from 68-72 and also shoot instinctive. I think a lot of my instinct came from pitching baseball from the age of 12 to 20. In both shooting and throwing you concentrate on a small spot and go through your motions and hit the spot. It's all eye to hand coordination that you repeat over and over again. Many days in age 16-23 or 24 I would practice 3-6 hours a day. Now I practice out to 40 and call it good.

I think if your shooting well instinctively and or without using a conscious aiming system out to 25 yards thats dam good.It will serve you very well in many hunting situations.It can be an advantage while hunting live game in certain scenarios that come up in the real world in the woods.

I did pretty well with it.As stated above by RD.It took alot of consistant practice for me year round and thousands of arrows to get really proficient.

i know one thing..30 yds in the PA woods seems like a long shot... at least to me.

Instinctively shooting a stickbow is easy at the common sense short range I normally shoot. Look at the spot you want to hit. Point your bow hand index finger at that spot and push the bow at it. Simultaneously pull your string hand through your anchor using your back muscles. The release will automatically happen as you are pulling through.

For me it's really just that simple. There's nothing tough about it at all. Paralysis by analysis and TP are not an issue. That's the malady of people overthinking shooting their bow at range beyond normal easy distance. "I gotta do everything just right to be a GOOD archer." lol

I suck so bad anymore, that I'm using a sight. :-)

Rick

Bob Rowlands X2. I to like a lot of people grew up on field archery and later FITA target out to 90 meters. I always enjoyed shooting long distance for fun. I still practice it a lot and am a instinctive shooter so I know my form must be pretty consistent to even get on targets at fifty or so yards . As a hunter I wont take a shot past twenty but I believe the long range helps those shots for me anyway. Like Bob said just do not overthink it to much because I know for me that is when I run into trouble. Hey Rick, absolutely nothing wrong with that sight in my opinion and I think your picture shows why.

Good post by Bob Rowlands. I never take a primary shot at big game beyond 25 yards, generally inside 20,( bear, deer, elk, turkeys ) but it never hurts to do a little longer range practice. If one hunts long enough there will be follow up shots at wounded animals, and a shot at virtually any distance could be on the menu.

You will do in a game what you do in practice. If you want to get consistent at 30 yds. Then you practice, and more practice at 30 yds. until you get it down. Even then we all have good days,and bad days.

“ i know one thing..30 yds in the PA woods seems like a long shot... at least to me.”

It’s not just you. ;)

Seriously- 30 yards through brush & other obstructions is a long poke. Doesn’t prevent me from taking a lot of really crazy-long shots around the 3D course, but that’s not “simulated hunting” - it’s just target practice.

If you follow the First Shot threads, it’s pretty plain that we have some darn good shots around here; I would love to become one of Those Guys, and I’m working on it, but I’m not There yet. And I’m OK with that….

FWIW, the first & most important thing for me has been establishing form which leaves no doubt where my arrow is pointing before I let it loose; if you don’t have that, how will you ever know why you’re missing when everything seems pretty good? And the Free Toy Surprise in that package has been that I’m more accurate than ever when I just Push & Pull as Bob said. But now I’m making good shots from a bit farther out.

I don’t assume that I’m among the better shots around here, but I do know that I have gotten to be a helluva lot better shot than I ever was before, and I’m really only concerned with competing against myself…

But it boils down to the old bit about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, and as Viper said, if you are running up against a practical upper limit for your accuracy (shooting the way that you do now) you’re going to have to change SOMETHING; the question is, what changes are you willing to make?? For me, adding a conscious check to make sure that eye, arrow and target are all in the same plane was a long-overdue no-brainer, and again, I would say that it has only IMPROVED my fast/fluid/instinctive/hand-eye coordinated shooting… at least as regards windage.

One of the other guys at the Club and I are interested in reviving NFAA style shooting, complete with those “ridiculously long” shots that people seriously expected themselves to be able to hit on a regular basis, back in the day… they’re FUN. And on the big, NFAA backstops, the cost of wrecked arrows is really pretty minimal.

Question is, how bad do you want to get better? If you’re not willing to change what you’re doing, it won’t likely happen…

Personally, I don’t want to switch from split-finger, and I don’t want to switch to a hard-gap system. I have a few shots around the course where I know how high to hold on those long ones, but for everything else, I’m just eyeballing it and hoping that I get better at my “instinctive gaps” through repetition. It’s working, gradually. I just have to remember to keep practicing at realistic hunting ranges, or I start missing high on everything…

I like shooting close for one reason. It's fun. I could care less about challenging myself, bettering my game, being the best, impressing others, being a 'real archer', etc.

I like easy accuracy distance, fifteen and in. No three second checkoff countdown needed. Ten is real fun. Five is even mo funner. Plenty of times I shoot closer than that, literally at spitting distance right in front of me, at vicious yucca plant seed pods. lol

BTW off bows, I like 5 10 15 yards with my handguns too. I could basically care less about aimed shots off the sandbag at 25 yards 'to see how good I am', or, "Just how accurate is this load, anyway?" or, "Gee...I need a chrony to see the velocity of this bulet." lol

Front sight. :tap: Front sight :tap: It IS a close quarters combat weapon after all.

Jack is asking about 30+ Yds. shooting with bare bow, and arrow, and if you hunt some field edges in Pa., and power lines you can encounter any thing from short shots to extreme long shots.

“ I could care less about challenging myself, bettering my game, being the best, impressing others, being a 'real archer', etc.”

Isn’t that to say that you aspire to mediocrity??

Suit yourself. JMO, THIS is what I call Fun. I loaded up the BQ and shot 23 arrows into one group and only 2 strayed wider than the paper on a 65cm NFAA bullseye; these 5 went a bit high, but basically grouped into about 10”, from a few steps beyond the far end of the boardwalk.

So that’s 21 outta 23 into less than 1 cm (wide) per yard of distance, equal to a bit better than an 8” group at 20 yards. Not “outstanding” shooting, I reckon, but respectable in most circles. So you can hit your pie plate at your distance and I’ll hit mine at mine.

I won’t say how long this was (because I’d be guessing anyway) and it DID take me a second shot after seeing the first fall short. But the angle of the shaft in the target might be a clue….

A week or so ago I was stumping. There is a rotting tree trunk I normally shoot at and hit from varying positions. Just behind the old fallen tree is a steep sloped bank. ( I live in the mountains.). So, I let loose a GT Warrior at about 20 yards and fly high over the tree trunk and into the bank, noticing instantly that the white plastic nock shot back off the arrow about 6 feet. The flattened field tip and insert were laying on the bank and the arrow had split up the shaft about an inch from the mouth and the carbon had a lift on the other side. Quite a nice sized rock just under the soil in that bank. How I get better is thinking, “dang, I don't want to do that again.

years ago we would get together and shoot on sunday afternoons at my cousins place.

we had a round bale in the horse pasture, eventually we would back up and lob arrows from as far away as 80 or 90 yds....oh it was fun alright, but not very practical as far as actual hunting practice..

My longest shot to date on a deer is like a yd or two over 40 yds..(lasered distance)...I NEVER take shots like that !...but for some reason that evening that buck feeding out there in one spot i had the notion i could kill him, so i tried it...i got lucky, shot him right through the heart and i watched him go down.

would i try it again?....NO.

I have shot two other deer at around 30, one through the lungs, i watched go down,the other a gut shot i found less than 150 yds away...would i do those over?....probably not.

You could argue with me till your blue in the face and i won't budge....in the field simply is not the same as in the backyard.

I am a fairly good shot, i'm like anyone else, i shoot those niffty little tight groups also.....till i don't.

I got the steam knocked out of me a little this past season, oh i did ok, i filled 3 tags, and we have plenty of deer meat, and i got pics to prove it.....but what i don't have is pictures of the couple misses as well, and they were under 30 yds.....one pretty far under 30.....guess i'm not as good as i think i am, sometimes.

frankly i need a good humbling occasionally.

Good shooting Chlorox

"LOL"

Out of all the game animals I've taken with a traditional bow (and there has been quite a few) in 54 years to include whitetail deer, muledeer, black bear, elk, wild boar, turkeys, and small game I have only killed three whitetail bucks (pictured) past 20 yards. When it comes to shooting for bowhunting I concern myself with two things, getting 30 yards or closer to the game animal and being very accurate at 30 yards and closer.

Hopefully I'll draw a bull moose and/or a bull elk tag this year and be bowhunting both, or at least one of them this September.

“ as far away as 80 or 90 yds....oh it was fun alright, but not very practical as far as actual hunting practice..”

Who EVER said that pushing yourself to see how far you can hit a target has anything whatsoever to do with “actual hunting practice”??? Hunting is Hunting; Fun is Fun; Practice is Practice.

But if you want to get better at shooting longer distances, it’s quite helpful to practice shooting at longer distances; EVERY cotton-pickin’ little error shows up plain as day at 50-plus… And I would venture that getting better at Long will make you better at Close.

Some people here clearly don’t have any interest whatsoever in receiving that kind of feedback on their shooting, but I’d sooner know what I’m doing wrong so I can stop making that mistake before it comes around to bite me on an animal.

And yes, it’s important to know at what distance your range estimation becomes critical; that’s how you avoid bad shots like most of these….

It's been a while since I shot some real long shots for fun, like 60 to 80 yards. I'll have to try it this weekend. Supernaut and I use to shoot some long distances for fun now and then. Shooting long distance is fun but when bow season gets close my main goal is killing a buck. :)

"lol"

I have come to like a 1 shot or first shot practice at a longer distance. I too find after 1 or 2 good long shots I go south then back in again, then dial in. That first shot tells me my effective range. Like Nemo I have a hand full to 10 shots over 30 yards out of a couple hundred big game animals.

I'm not as good of a shot as i used to be and I'm convinced I know why. My eyesight!!! I used to have extraordinary vision, the type where I could read the bottom, bottom line of an eye chart in such a manner that the doctor didn't believe me.

I remember shooting 20 years ago where the arrow and the target were both crystal clear in my sight window. When I'm at full draw now, everything near and far is blurry and the arrows go right, left, up or down in a manner that doesn't always make sense. You know when you messed up a shot and you know when you executed perfectly. I have lost that "quality control" that governs my shot in direct proportion to my vision changing.

2 handsome fellas there Nemo, their wives are lucky ladies LOL.

I'm looking forward to shooting with you again real soon my friend. We'll definitely air out a few 80 yarders for gits and shiggles.

Talking about shooting sure isn't the same as shooting. Lots of Howard Hills and Byron Fergusons until the arrows start flying.

“ Shooting long distance is fun but when bow season gets close my main goal is killing a buck. “‘

Sounds good to me! I only do this stuff to have fun with it…

I think I WILL be cutting my max distance as we get towards August/September; last few times out, I have been shooting much too high at more realistic Hunting ranges, and there’s no sense teaching yourself to miss on the only shots you’d actually be willing to take… ;)

wow. Pics of some of those animals Saphead

Some friends set up clay pigeons on wires thru the woods at longer distances. Shoot with judos. It's great practice, Each shot is like the first shot. 3d with clay pigeons. They carry a bag with fresh ones to put out as you go Here Jimmy see if this pic works. Only 5 yards (tree stand) but I was after this thing for 4 months.

Exactly Jimmyjumpup!!!

I shot a gallon jug at 105 meters. I'm still looking for the arrow

I made a major change in my release technique about 7 or 8 years into my journey that greatly increased my effectiveness at longer ranges. After trying 3 finger split.3 under, 2 under and 2 finger split I learned from a world class FITA shooter to shoot like they do. 90% of draw weight on my middle finger. I was always looking for a better way.

I was at the 3D range with my son Brian a couple years ago. I took an off station 100 yard shot at the elk and hit it in the rack. I lost sight of the arrow, and heard a noise. "You just hit the elk in the rack Dad. Shot of the day." Yeah...it was all skill son. lol

That’s OK, Bob - think about how much closer to the kill you were than all of the folks who didn’t dare to even chance it!

JMO, hitting well at long range is one of those deals where if you get it right once, it’s awfully difficult to stop trying to do it again. Dead-center at 17.4 yards feels good, but running one right down the middle at 60 or 80 or 100 or “whatever that turned out to be” is just a whole ‘nother deal. And you know that feeling when you think you knew that shot was Righteous As Hell as soon as you released it? When you goof at 80 yards, you practically have time to write down what you did wrong before the arrow drops into the dirt.

It’s FUN

Ok, I have hip quiver.

Put 7 or 8 arrows in it.

Get warmed up.

Then, shoot a quiver full at:

5yds 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 100 90 80 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 5

Then do this every night after work.

It won't take long, and you'll be able to hang at the novelty shoots. And, beat most of the guys you go up against.

All this long-range talk got me fired up so I had to give it a try. I've shot a little long distance before in the past for fun with Supernaut, but it's been a while.

Six arrows from 80 paces so somewhere between 70 and 80 yards.

Not the greatest shooting but at least I kept all six arrows on the target bag and didn't have to go look for any arrows.

It was fun shooting that far but for bowhunting I think I'll just stick to 30 yards and closer. :)

Maybe I'll give long distance another try for First Shot tomorrow.

Wow, doing the math, that's a lot of shooting. 23x7 or 23x8= 161 to 186 arrows. Or 13.4 to 15.3 dozen every day. Good job.

I have two questions. How long does it take you to do that much shooting? And secondly, do you walk out the back door after work to shoot, or stop at the range on the way home from work?

If your accurate out to 30 yrds instinctive No other method needed...

Monkeyball, My bow is 55# at my draw. Arrows are approx 500gr. I don't have a clue how fast my bow shoots them arrows. The arrows didn't seem to penetrate really deep into the bag target at that distance. That bag target is stuffed solid with rags. The distance WAS 80 paces, so it was between 70 and 80 yards. Supernaut and I have shot this distance in the past.

Yup, looks like Bag Sag ;)

Also, looking down on them hides some angle.

Like the pic I posted above, from down-hill of the target- looks like they dropped almost straight outta the sky… different angle changes the appearance a LOT…

Also makes it look quartering-away, but it’s almost perfectly broadside…

Looking forward to shooting with you again real soon Nemo! It might take me a little bit to get in the groove for those long bombs after my shoulder lay off but I'll still let it rip.... I'm not scared.

Anytime Jim. You're always welcome.

Yeah I like the long practice shots with a judo, first one every day as I step out of garage is 52 yards.

Nemo, Where are you and Jim located in PA? I live south central Mercersburg, PA

I love shooting long shots, although I haven't done it in quite a while.

This one is 100 yards.

Rick

Good shooting……impressive!!!

Wow 100 yards

Confused .... I thought this post was about Frisky???????

It is about Frisky! Who else can hit the bullseye at 100yards? Nobody that I have heard of!

“This one is 100 yards.”

Well, sure, but ya done went and MEASURED it, ya big sissy!!

;)

I’d like to get a laser on that buffalo shot - the topography would make it all but impossible to pace it off accurately.

Corax, do you read essays on here? I don't.

You do you, Bob.

[[[ "“This one is 100 yards.”

Well, sure, but ya done went and MEASURED it, ya big sissy!!" ]]]

I'm not that good at judging distance anymore. I carry a range finder. :-)

Heavy on the sissy part. :-P

Rick

GF, that's a good short post.

It's pretty much a hallmark of trad to not be interested in shooting well past 20 yards. In fact, it's a badge of honor in the trad world. If that works for you, great! If you feel the need to brag about not being interested in shooting beyond 20 yards, then Dr. Phil would probably ask what you're compensating for.

I've never felt the need to compare myself to anyone else when it comes to shooting. The only person I have ever tried to impress with my shooting was me. I couldn't care less what anyone else does or thinks. It's just archery. It doesn't define a person's character and I'm pretty sure St. Pete isn't going to ask us how far we can shoot a trad bow when we die.

Always said target is one thing but hair is another matter and that is what is important.

If you can master 20 yards and less you will kill a truck load of game . I find that practicing at longer ranges can foul things up by having me over compensate for range.

17.3 is kill range.

The purpose of all weapons is to kill. Sort range is where that gets done. I train at that range with all my weapons, not just bows.

jjs, if you ever decide to truly test yourself by entering a tournament, then targets actually matter. They are the truth serum of archery.

Bob, you are spot-on for this crowd. What kills me are the ones who are so proud of it.

I regularly shoot 10 yards and in. Even for 'this crowd' that's very short range.

Limbwalker, actually it sounds like you COULD care less about what others do or think. A lot less.

I'm not sure if I'm in "this crowd" but I shot my bow at the distances I like, have fun, and kill animals. I recommend everyone do the same or whatever floats your boat.

I'm glad I don't have to worry about choking in the medal round of the Olympics, that would really suck I reckon.

Actually Jeff, you'd be surprised how little I care these days. But after 24 years here, I do get tired of the same old passive aggressive chest thumping.

I think limbwalker has the right frame of reference…

Olympic Archers aren’t perfect, but they fully intend and expect to hit Gold on every shot. And they’re shooting what, 70m these days? I’m pretty sure they used to shoot 90 and/or 110 as well, right? (I’m not too worried that there’s no one here willing to set me straight on the details…).

But think about that for a minute… these guys(and gals) are expecting groups about the same size as it has become fashionable to settle for at 1/4 the distance.

WTF, boys??

This sport’s supposed to be about hitting your target, isn’t it?? And this from (mostly) a generation that karps about participation trophies….

Just a thought… Being able to shoot far never prevented anyone from being able to hunt close, but being a poor shot never (directly) made anyone a better hunter. It may have forced a few people to up their game on game, but that’s not the same thing…

Myself… Hunting or Shooting, my top priority is to learn from my mistakes and get better at it. I don’t expect perfection, but of all the people to show up at a shoot, the only person I figure I should be able to expect to beat is Me.

If you’re tired of the same old passive aggressive chest thumping, stop doing it.

Nice try grizz. Try not to self identify.

I guess i've beat my chest on occasion, guess its human nature to want to be in the spotlight so to speak, to be heard, or recognized, for skill or achievement.

But i suppose i'm maturing some, because i see less and less value in chest thumping.

anymore my greatest moments are early in the morning, birds singing, heavy dew still on the grass, much of the world still asleep...a soft twang from a bow string, and the thump of the arrow in the target, No cheers, no spotlight when the arrow finds its mark.

There are many things in life that are "great", sometimes in our endeavor to be one of them, we miss out on them.

I used to think blessings were on a shelf one above another, and the greater i became, and the higher i climbed the more i would receive.....

But now i've learned that blessings are in fact one beneath another, and the less i become, the more i receive....

life aint all that bad from the sideline....

Guess I'm not human then :) It's been my nature to be apathetic toward and avoid spotlights, accolades, recognition, competition, etc. With no ego or competitiveness to speak of, not needing, wanting or seeking such things keeps me happy, humble, grounded, and helps govern what I do and how I act in public and private, to include archery and bowhunting of course.

Sport? To me archery/bowhunting isn't a sport. I don't keep score or seek trophies, inanimate or otherwise. I just don't look at it like that. I test myself and am familiar and content with my ability and limitations, no organized shoots needed. For me archery is only part of the hunt, simple, personal, enjoyable that way, and I wouldn't want it to be anything less. Ymmv.

I'm not a grouper, I only care about the 1st shot.

Funny thing - I’ve never seen anyone who could shoot good groups without putting the first one where it belongs.

Form is form; it’s either good/repeatable or you miss. And not for nothin’ - “I only care about the first shot” is a popular approach with guys who are a bit (or a lot) overbowed, because it provides a get-out-of-jail-free card for having their form fall apart as they tire. Inventory permitting, I may launch 2 dozen arrows from the same mark in the space of just a few minutes (I’ve never timed it) as I concentrate on my mechanics.

Jeff/Shade - I truly enjoy your thoughtful (and often lengthier) posts - you know, the ones that AREN’T part of a pissing contest! ;) You guys have different experiences than mine, but when it comes to the hunt we seem to share a lot of priorities, and I appreciate that.

But you can’t put in that kind of time & energy on your posts and then deny that you enjoy getting feedback on your work, even if occasionally it involves pricking one audience to prompt some support from another. We almost all of us do it, or we wouldn’t be here, although there are a very few who somehow manage to avoid that trap entirely and are apparently here only to be kind, helpful and encouraging.

Anyway…. Shooting Long is a skill worth acquiring, the same as learning to track, read sign, pick a good stand location, shoot fast/fluidly, shoot from odd positions (prone is a fun one!), etc. But shooting “long” - or in other words, at the same distances that used to be as common as wax on a bowstring - is among those skills which, around here, some people are seemingly proud of NOT having.

Which makes about as much sense as an Astrophysicist being proud of the fact that he doesn’t know how to change his own motor oil or a lawyer being proud of not being able to figure his change on a cash purchase without a calculator. So here we are, happily celebrating our incompetencies while we bitch about how this country is going to hell in a handbag….

Your my man Grizz I love it

Sometimes I just have to remember the immortal words of the principal in the classic film Billy Madison:

"Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Some are simply indifferent toward long range shooting because they don't need it. I don't need to shoot 100 yards with pistols, 200 yards with flintlocks, or 1000 yards with rifles to be quite deadly with them either. So I don't.

I AM trying to be kind and helpful btw. To help folks understand that others can have different values, motives, and requisites for their archery, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Lol. I’m with Supernaut. I’m still waiting for pics of all these animals from the self proclaimed killers. Hehehe

Jeff, I roll that way myself.

Ive been to Denton Hill many many times. Thousands of shooters. And from what Ive seen, I hope most of them dont hunt with there bows.

Amen Shade Mt. Well said.

Jeff, there is nothing wrong with using a bow as a tool to engage in competition IMO. Most of us played sports in school, and some later in college or on adult teams of one kind or another. For many, competition is a way to stay sharp - both mind and body. So why not enter archery competitions. The only risk you take is possibly earning some skill/experience in exchange for a dose of humility. I'll take that trade any day.

Archery competitions have made me a better archer AND bowhunter, which was the point of entering them in the first place. I have never entered an archery competition for the purpose of beating anyone or winning an award. It's only ever about me enjoying the challenge I set for myself, and when you expose yourself to an audience, you really get to see how well (or not) you can pass that test.

It's not for everyone though. That much is for sure. No matter who you are, shooting for score in front of others is a level of exposure that will make a person uncomfortable. But you gotta be uncomfortable if you want to learn and grow.

"Sometimes I just have to remember the immortal words of the principal in the classic film Billy Madison:

"Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

One of the best posts I've ever read on here.

Corax, I agree on the long range shooting skills also.

John -

As usual, I agree with you completely, but ego is usually stronger, way stronger, than reason. In fact I basically said the same thing in my first reply on this thread.

"If you really want to get better, the odds are you're going to have to change something and probably do a few things you're not going to like."

Viper out.

Limbwalker, nope, there's nothing 'wrong' with using archery for competition or sport. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree with Man

I post to "share", because I think most on here are interested in what others do and/or are doing.

It has very little to do with beating my chest, or bragging. Although, I'll admit, there's a little of that too. :-D

I for one love reading, and seeing pictures of what others are doing, or have done, and I don't care if they throw some bragging in there with it. :-)

The way I see it - If you're not interested, you don't have to read it.

Rick

It ain't bragging if you can back it up Rick, and you can back it up better than most.

I used to be decent back when i shot alot. Now i just shoot at shoots, and my accuracy shows it. I enjoy alot of things in life, and just dont want to shoot everyday. Thats ok.

I'm the world's okayest shooter... but hunting is my priority so I just put a lot more time than most into my set-ups.

I went out to 35 this morning... but can count on ONE hand the number of animals I've killed over 20... and I cannot count on several hands the number of animals i've completely missed inside of 15. I embody "struggle stick."

Jar

Amen. Shade Mt. X2

I figure this is a popular thread for a reason— a collective nerve was touched in this community. I usually don’t post much and I’m not a chest-thumper, but I definitely see myself as one of the better shooters most places I go. As Viper is constantly pointing out, the way to get better is to correct bad habits and not practice them. Also, as many have pointed out already, that takes learning from experts, being self-aware, being open to change, and most of all, not letting your ego get in the way. There is always going to be someone who is either always or occasionally better than you. Seek them out, shoot with them, share ideas, and be willing to take from it that which will potentially improve your shooting.

I tell people that archery is my golf, and I’m addicted because, like golf, it is a quest for perfection that is impossible to attain. I also have to admit that while I spend at least three days a week roaming the woods with dog and bow, I am hunting stumps and other inanimate targets rather than those that bleed. I buy a hunting license each year and promise to bring home venison the freezer, but I enjoy their lively frolicking too much and their fall coat too closely resembles that of my Weimaraner.

If you really want to get better, you all have the potential to do so. If we could get a hole in one every time, golf wouldn’t be much fun, but the quest for perfection can be a lifelong journey that is both stimulating to the psyche and like a fountain of youth to the body and mind. If you can shoot a perfectly executed shot, one that is repeatable and follows the essential tenets of a good shot, and let go of the ego that craves only gold, you will achieve nirvana.

Peace

Well it’s catch 22. All life is. You can never ever ever ever satisfy everyone. If you are happy with the quiet subtle life the chest thumpers and braggers make fun of you and have comments about how you are wrong. If you happen to prove yourself to be worthy and skilled then you are a bragger and chest thumper. I say this …….. so what makes YOU happy. Do whatever you want and I won’t comment or criticize you for it but in the same token let me do what I want without comment or criticism. At some point in our lives we all are braggers, chest thumpers, side line watchers, shy, bold, crazy, reserve, etc. etc. etc. ……So before you start commenting on somebody else look back at what you have done.

Like it or not, we are all target archers first and hunters second.. I seriously doubt anyone here sends more arrows at game than they do targets. Yes, this may be semantics, but the point is that if you do well on targets even if only in your yard, it will give you more confidence on game. The further the target you are comfortable with, the easier the shorter target feels when the opportunity arises.

I often hear people say "I would love to hunt that way, but I'm just not very good at it" I say to them, traditional is very easy.. with enough practice and some good hunting knowledge, the only thing that is difficult is confidence! BigJim

“I AM trying to be kind and helpful btw. To help folks understand that others can have different values, motives, and requisites for their archery, and there's nothing wrong with that.”

Not as long as the post is free of the passive-aggressive condemnation of those who do differently.

I’m pretty sure that we have universal agreement here that when hunting, an important objective is to get ourselves into position for a sure, clean kill; it doesn’t matter what your effective range IS, so long as you stay within it.

But Getting Better at Hunting is one thing, and Getting Better at Archery is another (and don’t get me wrong, because Getting Better is a big part of Why I do both); it’s adequate to only practice your shooting at hunting range, but from an Archery standpoint, that’s really the minimum acceptable standard for anyone hunting, and I was never taught that aspiring to the lowest permissible standard is any kind of Virtue. That’s why I am often found here arguing with those who equate Ethical standards with whatever is simply Not Expressly Illegal.

I don’t want anyone to confuse Hunting with an Archery Contest any more than anyone else here, but in the OP of this thread, Jack clearly stated that he LIKES shooting longer than his hunting distance and he wanted some suggestions on how to Get Better at it, so back to my first sentence here…. Sneering at a stated desire to improve at something is about as Crap a coaching technique as I can think of, and there has clearly been an abundance of it in this one.

Not pointing any fingers at you, specifically, Jeff - but you really can’t make a convincing argument that no one on this thread has discouraged practicing at Archery Range IN ADDITION to Hunting Range. And not-for-nothin’, but (again) we’re not talking about anything which is in any way unprecedented, but simply the ranges at which Archery was normally (one might even say TRADITIONALLY) practiced prior to… oh, maybe about the time Fred Asbell wrote his first book.

I don’t want to make him into some kind of villain, because all he really ever did was to point out that shooting without sights offers enough flexibility in a hunting situation to offset the relatively modest (AT THAT TIME) compromise in effective range compared to modern equipment. It’s just those who have tried to turn “instinctive” shooting into its own damn religion who get all over my nerves…

Push and pull through. Push and pull through. It's easy. Just do it.

Big Jim 2x.

People have lost patience these days. They want it fast and don’t want to work for it. I have seen a lot of friends go back to compounds due to lack of success

Jack,

I do a few things that help my shooting- its a constant battle.

I video my shooting to identify flaws and alignment issues

I work on those flaws and different components on my shot on a blank bale

I shoot longer ranges in practice- it makes the close shots easier

.

Stickbow is greatly improved accuracy in comparison to the atlatl. In fact.. I'd say it's a snap to shoot accurately up close. :D

16 replies from BR. Might be a record.

Bugsy, 'Papa Bull' has that honor. :)

Ok friend ,but that makes 17.

This thread has been an interesting read. I've read it here many times before in over 25 years on the Leatherwall. This one is actually much more civil than many in the past.

Long range, short range, targets, hunting it doesn't matter. It would seem most people would like to improve. That requires effort...practice. if you keep practicing the same things repeatedly and aren't improving then it would seem that you need to change something. Unless of course you are happy with your current state of proficiency. In that case enjoy yourself and don't worry about what anyone else is doing.

Or go buy a new bow. :-)

If your friends went back to compounds, were they ever really your friends? :D LOL

I find that when I finally learned what shooting practice for hunting was compared to shooting practice for targets was... My hunting accuracy got way better. John Schulz kinda pounded it into my thick head what he was taught by Hill. You practice for your intent.

When all your practice is at dots or circles safely centered on a bale it's quite the psychological effect to have to shoot a spot on an animal that may move at any time, or might be surrounded by thin air (like a squirrel on a branch) or at the lower heart area at the bottom of a deer chest.

Want to get good at shooting squirrels or grouse perched on tree limbs? Practice shooting at plastic water bottles set up on the woods against the open sky or on a stump in front of a rock pile. Miss the bottle and lose or break an arrow. Practice shooting at a spot 3" from the edge of your practice butt. It's a lot harder mentally to shoot there than at a spot in the center of the backstop, or at a target that is safely surrounded by a big backstop.

Sure, you've got to shoot safely, but if all your shooting is at targets surrounded by large safe backstops, that's pretty much reinforcement of target shooting, and when you get in the woods, no deer or squirrel has a big safe backstop to catch an errant shot. Hunting shots can add stress to your shooting which can lead to TP.

agree with that 100%

why I stump shoot for realistic practice shoot what ever catches my eye and the arrow is at my mercery

I practice what I preach.

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