I've considered it ever since 2006, I decide I'm gonna try an ASL, then I'd back out let it go. I switched from shooting various Bear recurve since early 70's to a custom R/D Longbow in 2004. I've hardly touched my recurve since. Then in 2009-10, I had a shooting collapse, eyes, then target panic, rock bottom! I completely quit trad bows until just over a year ago. Long story short, I've worked my a-- off at it and I can say I'm shooting better than I ever have, especially my LB. I can now actually shoot with several shot sequences, but the ability break myself from a fixed focus to what I've come too call a floating focus. In other words I can come to a good complete anchor, focus then release. And I'm 64 now and in need of dropping draw weight, so nows the time to take the plunge while my confidence us soaring! And the latest HH thread has me drooling! I'm fairly familiar with the different designs and I guess I have just a question or 2 about a final decision??? I'm now shooting a 50# 64" LB. I'm sure I want a HH Bow by Craig! I'm leaning towards the Cheetah because I love the looks! I'm thinking of a 68" 43# @ 28". My true draw is 28.5" and I figure I'll get aprox 45# +- a lb? I think i want just a little String Follow? I'm not worried about speed, but the smooth draw in the last 2" of my draw is just as important to me as the beginning of the draw stroke! Would I be better off with a Straight Bow? I'm fairly sure I don't want any Back Set? And the Basic Cheetah is all I need I believe? And anyone know the wait time after order these days? I'm thinking of calling soon!? Any bells rung on my info that deserves an idea or advice I truly welcome!??? And, I'm thinking I want the Straight grip, I really believe I can adjust to it fairly quick! My LB now has only a slight locator grip, and ive always preferred a straighter non pistol type grip anyways! But???

Am I will need shafts. All I have is 65-70 and 70-75 poc. I'd like my best spine option so I can soon order Surewood shafts???

the Cheeta is a looker and what I would choose if I was getting one from him

length is a personal thing and I tend to go by one as long as I'm tall erroring on the shorter side

all I have ever had are backset but waiting on a string follow -probably just a matter aswhat you get used to

spine would also depend if using FF or dacron

call and discuss withCraig- he should know his bows better than anybody

The Cheetah is my favorite Hill. I think you're right on in the poundage selection as well. Keep in mind that a string follow bow starts out soft and necessarily has to build weight faster near the end of the draw. I wouldn't call it stacking, but it stiffens up faster at the end of a draw than a straight or setback bow.

That being said, I find the string follow bow more pleasant to shoot. There is less hand shock at release, and I'm not bothered by the steeper draw force at the end of the draw. It might have to do with something that Steve Graf mentioned in his first book, "The American Longbow." He posits that one's skeletal and muscular structure come into better alignment toward the end of the draw and thus are then better able to handle the increased weight. Works for me.

The type of string you put on the bow will affect spine selection. I know Craig prefers dacron. I like low-stretch strings and generally overspine by 5-10#. With dacron, shafts in the 45-50# range will get you in the ball park; 5# heavier with a low stretch string. That's assuming a normal point weight of about 125grains. Talk it over with the Surewood guys as well. Good luck.

Backset won't effect the draw sensation in the last two inches. Not saying go with Backset. Go with what you want and like.

Most straight asl bows will take on a bit of string follow over time. Not all though. Talk to Craig on these questions because the answers are going to make a big difference

WHUT??? No photos?? Fur shame!

Batman needs his photo fix LOL.

Hard to say how you would adjust to the grip change.Some will adjust eisier than others from locator to straight.A learning curve is thier.Some will have a hard time.Some not so much.

Sounds like you have overcome some TP issues.Not easy to do.So thats a big deal!

Not sure if I would mess with changing grips much since your in a groove and dont want to get in a funk and backslide to the bad old days.Something to think about.

Guys seem to have thier favorite limb design.Backset,straight or string follow.It varies.I am kinda in the Orion camp as stated above.Your mileage may vary.

The Cheetah is a nice looking bow!

I was thinking FF, but like youll suggest I'll talk it over with Craig, I'm not dead set one over the other! I'm leaning toward a straight bow but I'll see what he says on that too! 125 and 135's is all I've shot in past, hope to stay with them!

You may want to grab a thermometer...sounds like you may have The Fever :)

Personally, I like your thinking re lower poundage. I am 65 and feel that my 45# bows will take me into the forseeable future. I have a few 40# as well and think this general weight will be comfortable for sustained target practice. Good luck.

Bearcurve:

I've shot Hill bows for 40 years. I would think with your draw length you might want to consider a 66" bow.

I personally love the string follow bow and have shot just about every bow from backset to stringfollow and all my current bows are that.

Spine wise I would suggest if you're going to use an arrow cut 29.5"BOP would be 50/54 AMO.

Bob

Just ordered the Cheetah, 68" 43#@28", Bubinga Riser, Straight Grip with rust cowhide, dacron string. Deer & HH Bh silver inlays, and named "Mountain Hunter". He's making it only a slight back set which I understand will play out to be mostly straight. He recommended 55-60# spine woodies. I've been shooting 29" arrows but I can play with them to determine final length! Gonna be rushing these next 3 months along!

Ageee on 66” as aromkr suggested

Draw gonna shrink with straight grip

Draw gonna shrink with straight grip

I think you have ordered the perfect bow. I like at least 68" and a slight backset. I a little over bowed but I hate to drop below 55# for hunting so I would have gotten one a little heavier. With five inch feathers I can still shoot pretty well with wood arrows spined 15# over my ASL weight but have perfect flight with ones spined the exact weight of the bow.

Good for you BC. Good length for your draw length and enough weight to get the job done. I think you'll like it.

Good choices right down the line. Hope you get it in time to hunt it.

I'm definitely gonna have plenty time to get acquainted to it before hunting season 1st Sept. But if I'm not confident by then, I'll hunt my regular bow. But that's fine, I live stumping and some squirrel hunting as good as hunting! But if I'm shooting it well by season, the Hill will hunt! I need to drop in weight a little anyways my old shoulder showing fatigue! I shoot a lot more than I hunt! My breathing really bad so i hunt when I can. Out the back door to shoot! 4w to anywhere I wanna go in minutes to stump! I'm getting the Hill at the ultimate time for my use!

Thanks everyone for the good advice and encouragement, will consider every word, after all our own opinions based on experience us the best advice!

Good decision. After 15 minutes of shooting that bow you will be ready to hunt with it!

That sure be ok by me but if it takes a while, no pain no gain!

Well its gonna be a long wait, but I'm glad I'm committed to this. Not just a new bow, committed to my new HH and mastering accuracy with it! And I kinda considered going back to aluminum but I've come to my senses, wood is what i love now and I'm gonna get some 50-55# Surewood Shafts ahead! I enjoy wood too much, the entire arrow making process and don't have to worry about inserts, adapters, etc!! Just seems to me a ASL in my hands anyways, is made for wood arrows! Anxious yes!

Well bearcurve, that's a real popular combination eI'd figure about 5 years before you took delivery. Craig is getting up there so it may even be longer !

Ah, the anticipation, the wait, the wondering until it finally shows up. Like a little kid waiting for Christmas Day to finally come. Then it is fun city as you get it out, admire and study it (for a second at least) and then string it too shoot it. Hope it is better than you hoped for

By the way Bearcurve . You might want to change your handle. Bearcurve not the best handle for a longbow shooter. lol

Don't change your handle just yet... I tried the ASL with heavy wood arrows, I got a beautiful set up that gave me tennis elbow. LOL

5YEARS? SUHSSSSHURSSSSSSHHHHHUUUUUUUURLY NOT!!! The Chaparral I'm shooting now, got it in 04. Was expecting delivery anyday! Wife told me it's leaning in the corner, came yesterday! Won't repeat what a run of choice words used on that ??!!! How about "Cheetahr" for a new name? Hadn't really thought about it but sounds original? I know one thing. Way things getting I'm gonna lay in a good supply glue on nocks, bh's, fp's!

68” - 60#

Beautiful bow BS!

Thanks bearcurv! I bought this bow from Facebook, my wife found it. Was made around 2008-10 sometime. Craig said it was a custom. His son in law did the checkering.

Well you hit the jackpot, only one I recall seeing with checkering! Love the grip is that Moose?

Well 1 month down 2 to go! But no doubt the 3rd month is the slow one!

I hate waiting. Shot my 7 lakes ASL this morning, so much fun. It will be worth the wait.

Wow, the OP brought back some distant memories from when I dove straight down the ASL rabbit hole….looking back here’s some advice as you get going:

Grip: A complete nonessential. Yes, any ASL grip may be foreign to your palm for an afternoon but after that you may eventually develop a preference. But if you take your coffee black, you’ll probably find most to any of them completely doable.

Length: Longer is smoother, easier, and maybe mo-betta in a number of respects. Again, with experience you’ll develop a preference. 66-68 is a solid choice.

String: Dacron is only passable as dental floss, and even for that use there are far better options. Start with a good FF string, no silencers, and be done with it.

Backquiver: Get one. Get a real Hill-style one. Get a nice one with great leather, and get to using it properly. As you do, it’ll become as essential, important, and just as coveted as your ASL.

Arrows: ASLs in my experience respond best and perform best when arrows are spined right and length is no longer than they need to be.

Form & Style: Let the bow bend you and shoot it the way it wants to be shot. That’ll make more sense after a year-or-many of shooting ASLs. But if you experience a little handshock and then it goes away, it’s is a sign you’re on the right track. Let the bow tell you.

Fun & Satisfaction: You’re on the cusp of more than you ever had! Go for it!

Bearcurve, that is elk grip wrap

Thanks BS, I originally ordered a cow hide grip and was considering changing. I called Craig over a week ago and changed to a Black Elk Grip. Spring has kept me busy so the waiting not been bad. But I'm sure that last month will streeeeeetttch out there!

O3T, thanks for imo sound wisdom! As far as the grip & shooting, your advice is what I'm hoping to go with and reason I'm sure now is right time for me to dive into an asl! I've allowed myself to kinda relearn and change almost everything about my shooting because I went thru so long of shooting problems. I could never break away from my old shot sequence but hours of up close time on the bag I've learned I can really come to peace with whatever works for me! So I'm hoping it'll carry me into an asl, and let the bow teach me what I need to do! That was and is te plan?? But I hunt big tough mountains and now have bad breathing! I'm always wearing a backpack either loaded or bare essentials and often a portable nebulizer for breathing treatments! A back quiver is only quiver I've never used but am sure in my circumstances they're out the question! I use both a bow quiver or my own made GFA quiver I made from an old bear spring quiver about 20 years ago. They're both great according to my needs at the time! I shoot barebow or bow quiver on either with no effects! I'd love to try a good back quiver but it's just about out the question for me! But I'll take all your advice to heart I want to make this bow work! I'm in the right frame of mind for it! But on the other hand, I'm fixing to put a tree stand or two for first time in long time. I've never killed a deer or even shot a deer outta a tree! All my deer I've taken on foot with a lever action and few with my bow. But if I go to mostly a treestand, a Back Quiver may become an option because I can carry essentials in a couple old military shoulder bags which I do often anyways. And, I'm a lifelong squirrel hunting nut and a back quiver would be great for that! We'll see, I may consider one yet?

I am with Orion and Aromakr, I prefer a string follow longbow and I have tried them all, they are just plain easier to shoot and maintain form for me but it's just one opinion and the difference in speed is minimal.

Have you shot an ASL before? Not sure it's the bow that would be best suited for your draw cycle demand.

Where there’s a will…

…there’s a way

But YES use ones for skwerls if nothing else for the arrow capacity. Great fun!

O3T, pics speak a lotta words and don't lie! I appreciate the ideas!

I've also got a Steve Catts leather side quiver I got when I first got my LB in 2004. Used it then a lot but not since. But I may try a back quiver yet!

David: I too hunt BIG mountains, for the majority of my life the Sierra Nevada's and now the Rocky's. I have use the Hill style back quiver with a side pack. It doesn't hold as much as conventional pack but carries all I need for a day in the woods. If fits across the shoulder like the quiver but hangs under the bow arm and doesn't interfere with the shot, or the quiver. I got the idea from a pack that was being made for turkey hunters many years ago. Google "side pack bags" you will get several different kinds.

Bob

Arromakr, we're already on the same page!

In Walmart a out 3 weeks ago and I already had a back quiver on my mind. Possibilities of how I could adapt to one. Actually I much prefer to hunt with my side quivers and when I use a bow quiver, and set up in my tree seats or any sit, I take my bow quiver off. But I looked at their packs and low and behold this was there. I've not hunted it yet but this packs versatility and load it can carry is unreal! So I bought it I'm a sucker for packs, shoulder bags! I started using a sling pack last year for trout fishing and love it! This may just lead to a back quiver!!!

It's a Fieldline and didn't cost much but is made incredibly well! Another full length pocket between the big main pocket and your back. D rings and lash loops everywhere!

The pack below my backquiver is a Duluth All-Day Lumbar pack. Basically, a large fannypack supported by wide suspenders. This goes most everywhere with me on all sorts of long hunts and adventures. Not only does it jive with a Hill quiver perfectly it carries 2 liters of water, a few essentials, plus it lets me strap stuff to it on occasion. Layer on, layer off. Tree seat, rattling horns, you get the idea. For light-n-fast morning/afternoon excursions it stays in the truck and I grab just the backquiver and go.

Sorry, didn’t mean to derail this into other backquiver thread. I guess that they never really made sense to me before I was fully won over to the ASL. Only then did I catch the vision, so to speak.

Sorry, didn’t mean to derail this into other backquiver thread. I guess that they never really made sense to me before I was fully won over to the ASL. Only then did I catch the vision, so to speak.

Sorry, didn’t mean to derail this into other backquiver thread. I guess that they never really made sense to me before I was fully won over to the ASL. Only then did I catch the vision, so to speak.

Hey I appreciate the ideas! Good looking setup! I believe that's a Torges seat you've made to hinge in half? I did same thing to mine probably 20 years ago and still only way I carry one. My Torges seat has been my most consistently useful piece of equipment. Killed quite bit of game on it, but the opportunities on it are countless! About the only way I've deer, turkey, and coyote hunted since and several squirrels to boot!

Good eye, it is. I don’t use it often but it fits my kit well and it’s a good and useful tool in the toolbox.

I'm considering going ahead and getting a BQ from Craig so as to be getting familiar with it, break-in, etc. He offers it in 20 & 22". Shortest arrow I can shoot on any bow is 29", so any recommendations? I'm thinking 22"?

22

Craig makes a fine back quiver !

Thanks Ben, I ordered a 22" sift leather yesterday afternoon. Looking forward to it!

Bearcurve59, I have a 27" draw and all my bows are 64" and 66" string follow bows made by Craig at HH, Steve at NM and Jim at Bivouac Bows. They are very smooth and very quiet.

Excellent choice on 22” stiff

Excellent choice on 22” stiff

I misspelled soft in my prior post. But I ordered it in Soft Leather at 22" Monday. Hope to have it latter part next week to be getting me & it prepped and friendly!

Looking forward to seeing pictures.

Looky what came yesterday! Beautiful quality Soft leather! Rubbed it down with canola oil yesterday and sat on it thru couple baseball games.

Rubbed it down with canola oil yesterday and sat on it thru couple baseball games. Went stumping this morning to try it out. Me and this quiver are gonna be fine! Tried send pics stumping but they won't send!

Looking good-hopefully our bows aren’t far behind!

I'm thinking soon!

Looks what came today!

I love it

!!!

You will love a string follow model, here's my Miller it is all yew with black glass, and it's smooth and quick enough.

looks nice love the juniper veneers

you gonna be hooked now

I had several more pics but they won't send. But I'm already hooked, the draw is so smooth with a perfect incline in weight I can believe it! I can overdraw 1-2" and the same. Only shot a few today, but I'm totally impressed and will give it a good try tomorrow! I first ordered it named Mountain Hunter and a deer inlay. But I live right at base of Big Black Mountain and it's known for big black bears, and big rattlers! So I had Craig change the order to this, only appropriate! I'm gonna get along great with this bow I can done tell!

Looking good, Nice bow

OOOH!! Yes sir that is a mighty fine looking bow. AND it appears the bow made it through the delivery service unscathed. Keep the thread alive and post some shots. Congrats. I LOVE my Freeman Longbow, but right now it doesn't love me back ;-)

-Bones

Adjustment for me with this bow is irrelevant. I already feel like I been shooting this bow all my life! I'm shooting 50/55 spine cedars cut 30" with 125gr and 145gr field tips, both are great. I shot these same arrows, one with a 125 zwickey and another with a 135gr zwickey. The 125gr is definitely hitting left and the 135gr is barely maybe a little left. I believe I need 45/50 spine already. I'm shooting it braced 6.75" nock 1/2" above and trajectory is to me perfect for either arrow. A 29" is what I really prefer for a perfect length, but I left em 30" to start. I believe if I cut these arrows 29" then the 135gr zwickey would fly left bad. Do you'll agree 45/50 spine is likely to correct my flight?

The cedar weight at 30" with 135gr zwickey is average of 515gr

Great looking bow David! My 43lb ASL shoots perfect with 45/50 cut to 29” with 125gr points, so I think you are right on…

Something is amiss here, 50/54's cut to 30" are 40/44. Are you sure your drawing 28"? I would have someone watch you shoot. What you have should shoot the line. Also try dropping your brace height to around 6 1/8"- 6 1/4"

Bob

Don't judge the arrow flight of flying left to be stiff until you shoot the line. Those arrows are probably just fine. Shoot the line, aim the arrow and see if they fly left. You've been shooting a recurve with a deeper sight window and this new bow will point the arrows differently but that doesn't mean the arrows are stiff

Beautiful

Beautiful

Yes I'm a true 28.5" draw fir sure! I've been shooting the black line on my bag target all morning! I just shot the 135 zwickey again and fresh after a rest. They flew perfect. Being conscious of everything new, I was probably less than perfect on my release some! But just now fresh they flew good. But the 125 zwickey definitely veers left, and these all at only 15yds. I'm convinced 45/50' will line out for me!

I haven't said it till now but I'd never heard a quiet bow until this one, I can't believe it! Yesterday I shot it with no silencers and it's quiet. This morning I put on some short puffs and even my neighbor sitting behind me who shoots couldn't believe it. Now it's a quiet puff of air. Incredible!

But I will try dropping BH!

The Chaparral going to become a rack queen now? Since I got a Benoit forward handle mine is seeing less action even though I luv it and could probably shoot it a bit better with same time put into it.

Very cool

I be a Suck Egg Mule that stands corrected! I started with a 6.75" BH that the string barely touched it on upper side. I decreased to 6.5" dead center of string. Those 125 zwickey are flying like Lazer beam now and just few shots with the Deltas appeared to also! When you need flight instructions, don't listen to a DumbA underground coal miner like myself! Go to a experienced flight instructor! Thank you Arrowmkr and Sunset! I honestly thought decreasing BH would compound the problem! Right now it appears perfect! I'm coming to full anchor, hold and anchor and when I did my part the arrows hit right where I'm looking! And thanks Craig, he told me on phone from start, this bow for me should be good with 50/55 @ 6.5"! Thanks everyone involved!

I agree with Nate, Aim the arrow, not the bow.

Bob

And yes Krag, that Kaibab is officially retired except maybe to occasionally stretch his legs. And the Kodiak too!

Beautiful bow, really nice. Bearcurve a Howard Hill broadhead would complete your outfit and nothing flies better than a HH broadhead.

I been itching to try a HH Head but I've always stayed with Zwickey or WW, have never even handled one. I may try em in near future? The paperwork recommends 6.75" for a 70" bow, minus 1/8" for each 2" shorter bow. 66"-6.5", 6 5/8" for a 68" bow.

I already hold this bow in high esteem so I got to correct something? Title was ASL Ready. I heard Robert Carter say when referring to these bows, he believed in giving credit where due! So he always calls them a Hill Style BOW instead of ASL, regardless of the maker!

I agree 100% so it's Hill Style BOW Ready now! ASL just sounds too liberal anyways! ??

Bearcurve59 X2. I like your thinking. I also heard Robert Carter say that and I totally agree. Enjoy your new Hill style bow.

David: I'm going to disagree with you, the ASL (American Semi-Longbow) was designed by Howard. Its unfortunately other people who built "Their" idea of a bow and called it an ASL, and some of those same people call it a Hill style bow not knowing what one looks like,

Bob

You're probably right aromkr, I sure can't define all the little differences.

Congrats on the cheetah!! I have 2 with same specs as yours. The cheetah is the sexiest bow made lol.

Wait to you get it in the woods. It is sometimes hard to focus on hunting cuz you catch yourself staring at your dam bow instead admiring it. I do it all the time. Lol

What a great thread and perfect timing! I bought a SF 41@28 68” 7Lakes bow off of Bob Abeln yesterday! Gotta get some wood shafts and tune it up when it comes in and interesting talk about back quiver, I use bow quiver on my recurves. Maybe I sell them all in a month… who knows.

Bob mentioned the bow weighs in closer to #43 so I’m thinking with my 29” draw I’ll be around #45. I’m thinking I should get some 50-55 spine wood arrows and cut to 30”? Thoughts? Also it looks like I need to order a back quiver….

Yes you need a back quiver now for sure. and a loin cloth and moccasins :)

Cut it out, I agree 100%, Sexiest bow I've seen, and I love that golden grip on yours! I couldn't for life of me figure out which grip I wanted, and settled on the light brown when I first ordered. Then I got thinking about what I named the bow, black bears here on black mountain. It just come to me, it's gotta be black only right, so I called Craig and changed it! And tradpoint I think you're right on, that's your best prescription for a healthy shooting bow! At least for sure it is for me, and likely a steroid for your bow, go with it! One thing I gotta say, after having shot mine only three days now. This is the first and only Hill style bow I've ever handled and certainly shot. I had no idea really how I'd do or what it would be like, having shot recurve since 1970 and a r/d since 2004. Always read about handshock, some negative, some just ok with it, some it turned them against the bow. Now, I do not understand all the rave! The first day, it being new, I never even was aware of it. But I didn't have time but shoot about dozen. Next morning I was out at daylight fired up to go, on my lonesome, and I thought about it from start. Yeah it became apparent what all the talk was about, but after three days here's how I analyze handshock, honestly how I feel about it already. Only time I'm aware of it is when I shoot with my perfect shot sequence. Slow draw, three under, locked on my spot, slightly canted, peripheral aiming right down the barrel, anchor and after a year of work, hold on anchor, don't release until it feels right. When I do all this, yes I feel it. I'm a lifelong rifle shooter, love it really more than a bow. Have killed a train load of squirrels with the 22, my share deer with high power, and quite bit fox and coyote, and few turkey, all with rifle. I love the 30-30 and 30-06! 30-30 recoil is a loving kiss, and I shoot plenty max rds of my own reloads with 180gr bullets in the 06. That's a pretty good thump! But I'm a recoil junky, I actually love it, and it's only really apparent when I execute a totally perfect shot that my mind is totally focused to. That don't happen until the shots on the way. And I know by the feel and concentrated thought that I made a good shot, and can actually call the bullet impact rather close! It's a reward feel!!! I already feel the same about this bow. I'd never felt that until yesterday morning and when I feel it, it's because I was focused and the thump is like recoil from a well executed shot! Arrows already on its way, but I know it's at least gonna be close to the mark! So now I gotta say, why all the fuss about handshock, it's the reward of a good shot, and now i got it in my bow, something I'd never enjoyed before. I'm a recoil and handshock junky! Why in world be bothered by it beyond me!

Great thread, hope it keeps going.

First day afield shooting field points, Judy's and BH's mostly from 15 to 27yds.

Glad your enjoying it so much. Also cool you got it early enough to get a summer worth of shooting it so should be able to hunt this season with it.

Well I'm still here, still in the hunt hopefully soon! I hunted I know documented, at least 150hours in my primary spot in sept-oct. Never even seen a deer, but wasn't surprised, but got several good bucks on camera. Saw plenty bear, bobcats, few yokes, turkey, and squirrels. But I took a decent 6pt with my 30-30 levergun on opening morning of Rifle season. Next week with rifle season still in, but tagged, I took my 22 rifle to my stand to try for some squirrels. Less than hour one the best bucks I've seen gave me 3 minutes of torment, 5-15 yds out, worked a scrape, best shot opportunities I could want, and me with a 22, Lol! But i haven't hunted any since, I have bad lung problems, and been congested and coughing continously, but maybe getting lined out. We usually have a warming trend in Dec-early Jan, and hopefully I'll have my Cheetah there in hand! But I wanted to say I ordered some cedar shafts back in oct? from Riley of Archery Past. I couldn't be happier, best shafts by far I've ever had, cedar anyways. They where all easily within 5-7 grains weight matched, straight, ready for stain. He has a new permanent customer! I tried to post a pic but it wouldn't clear.

Good luck to the rest of your Season and Have a Merry Christmas Bearcurve

Bob Burton has 40+ years with the SAL and is a master arrow smith so I would follow his advice.

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