I was enjoying the thread with all the leather products but it got me thinking about hides. In particular threads posted about guys hunting elk and moose out west or in Alaska. No one ever seems to pack out the hides. Just the meat and the rack. Moose in particular is the best tanned leather you can get for nearly any project. It just seems like such a waste to me.

Yes, moose is great. I have a big chunk of it, gonna make a new muzzleloader bag with it for starters.

I got a doe head and hide off the deer processor a couple of weeks ago. I'm going to braintan it. Waiting for the hair to slip now. He said his buyer didn't want any hides this year, they had no market. So he threw over 2000 deer hides in the trash. What a shame. He said next year contact him earlier and I can have as many as I want.

Here's the doe hide. The hair was just beginning to slip two days ago, but wasn't coming proper-like so she went back in the bucket. Gonna try it again tonight.

Since it is useful and it bothers me to throw stuff like that away, I have a variety of hides in the shop now that need tanned. Some will be braintanned and some with chemicals. I have turtle skins, beaver tails, muskrats, beavers, fox, several deer, coon, skunk, who knows what else. Not to mention a healthy stash of antlers, horns, bones, tendons, claws, fish and snake skins, etc. But hey, doesn't everyone? :^)

Only a waste in human's terms since nature reclaims it with the help of critters of one form or another. I don't use deer hides either. We used to have a place that would give you a few bucks for them, but I don't think any of them are around anymore, at least not out here in our rural area.

I wonder if it has anything to do with how long a good pair of buck skins last. Granted they really aren’t in style any more. I saw this video once Of a guy who tanned and smoked his own buck skins. Pants and shirt and jacket. He said they were 20 years old and just starting to get broke in. He said they were ready to be smoked again. If everyone wore buck skins there would be no clothes shopping malls. ;)

I wonder if it has anything to do with how long a good pair of buck skins last. Granted they really aren’t in style any more. I saw this video once Of a guy who tanned and smoked his own buck skins. Pants and shirt and jacket. He said they were 20 years old and just starting to get broke in. He said they were ready to be smoked again. If everyone wore buck skins there would be no clothes shopping malls. ;)

Imagine hunting hard all day and finally downing a critter 30 mins before dark. You are 6 miles from camp, on foot. There are two hunters responsible for getting 200-500# of meat/head back to camp that night without fail. Would you want to walk another 12 mile round trip to bring a hide back?

OK Chris, why not leave the rack and pack out the hide? I mean I get it,, hides are not easy to get tanned, there heavy when green, and you likely don't have the skill to turn it into something useful. All that aside it is still a "waste".

And to counter Georges argument that nothing goes to waste in nature, you could make the same argument about leaving the meat behind couldn't you?

What do you make with your whitetail hooves, bones, hide, tendons, skull and back fat?

I don't haul the guts home either. It is what it is. Get over it.

Take out whatever turns you on, it's yours. Have fun with it.

I Brain tanned a deer once and a Beaver - too much work for me

never again

People who don't preserve the hides are a disgrace to society.

Joe

You ruined that picture as soon as a you laid a fiberglass sandwich on those hides you bought.

LOL

Well there is a lot of waste going on around the whole country, just look at what is laying on the road systems.

waisted? It all gets used. Even insects above and below ground use it. I never throw my left over hide are bones in the dumpster it gets taken back out to the fields and timber. And in a years time you would have to look hard to find it all.in a couple years everything is gone. Waste is all the plastic bottles and bags your groceries come home in. And chemicals and waste water it takes to make your carbon arrows when you could used environmental friendly wood.just saying a hide left is not wasted.

Joe is the king of sarcasm. Figured he'd appreciate a little back.

I waste em they are chewy. Make no bones about it.

Bruce, no the meat wouldn't go to waste, and many a lost deer over the milleniums of hunting shows that to be a fact. Now if you purposely leave good meat in the woods, that is known as "wanton waste" and I don't know a decent person who would do that. So that question doesn't reflect on one's ethics, like wanton waste does.

Yes, if you save hides, you can have clothing made. I might make a shirt and hat. Maybe even a side quiver.

Joe

To the OP: Unless you personally have the have the physical ability to pack out a 100lb green moose hide over rough terrain you may want to stay in your lane. Did it for years. Not doing it any more.

I still save all of my deer hides, either tanned or turned into rawhide. Probably have 30 or more draped here and there. If I want to make something no shortage of material. Not young enough to hunt Elk or Moose anymore, but if I was I'd find a way to get the hides out.

So you are packing all those deer hides out 5 miles on your back?

Easy to tell everyone what they should do as opposed to walking the talk yourself.

1/2 a moose hide makes for a warm bed while camping:)

I try to be real about it. We're not natives, don't have their exact needs or values, but I try still to make use of as much of the animals I kill, or am privy to, as possible. It's a sort of respect thing, always in their direction. And it's a continual learning process. Doing so has made me a better sportsman, craftsman, a more-rounded outdoorsman, heightened my challenges and rewards, and provided me with some surprisingly good food and really cool and unique, useful items. It spoils me in some ways. Now I wouldn't want to do with less... and always striving to do better, use more, throw away less. I couldn't hunt with/like most do. Simply... Less waste = more respect... and the converse is true too I guess. Ramblin... gotta go check that hairy hide...

Just came in from de-hairing that hide. It's 10 degrees out there, getting dark, and the wind was howling at my back... but the skin dont care. When its ripe... its TIME. I had a long sleeve shirt on, no hat. She was ready to slip and I got about 95% of the hair off and would have finished it, but the hair froze, then the fleshing beam froze, then the skin started freezing to it. I bailed. I'll finish it tomorrow. But I better go back out and change the water now....

Suppose I could have thrown a tarp down in the shop and been more comfy :^)

Just built myself a beam and bought a real fleshing knife last season. Made things much easier.

I packed this one roughly 2,000 vertical feet. Better part of 4 hours steady walking packing just enough for the day. 78” from crown to rump. I don’t know what it weighed green, but it was practically a Load all by itself.

I have a big pile of hides which have been waiting for years to become part of a Project. Oughtta get to work.

Even in the days of Daniel Boone buckskin wasn't a fashion statement - it was the lack of cloth available on the frontier that made it so popular. Hasn't been that need for a long time. Even then buckskin was Boone's main source of income and most of the venison was left behind because bear meat was more popular and in demand.

Couldn't see throwing the last deer hide taken from our cabin out in the woods with bones and scraps so told my son to take it down to the local general store and see if maybe someone wanted it. A young guy said I'm walking but put it in that pickup and he'll drop it off for me. That worked out but it's a different culture up there.

I was given a piece of shiras moose hide tanned without hair and it was easily the best I've ever used.Great for grips.

I have home tanned skins of all types of critters all my life. I've had hides tanned commercially. I've made everything imaginable out of my own leather, but there comes a time when too much leather is too much. I've got enough leather for another lifetime. So the deer hides now are very respectfully returned to the woods and laid where the animal spent its last moments. Kind of cathartic actually.

So you guys take your whole deer out and skin it and tan it? I’m not buying it

I don’t get it… What’s so hard to believe about that?

My carcasses along with the hide go back into the woods after I'm done processing.

I don't waste a scrap of meat on any animal I kill so I don't feel the least bit guilty about not saving the hide.

I respect and understand the folks that do save their hides, etc and I admire the things they do and make with them.

In regards to the OP's post, I think it would be a daunting task to pack out the hide of a moose in most situations where they are killed from the limited knowledge I have of moose hunting. Again, my mind set would be focusing on getting all of that huge amount of meat.

It's kind of like, Dammm if you do, Dammm if you don't! :>)

So how many elk and moose have you ever packed out?

There's no waste in the biologic cycle.

I don’t believe all these hunters that leave an animals carcass behind are all maggots. If I tanned all the animals I killed my house would look like a trappers trading post. I’m simply not doing that. It’s not a waste to me to leave the hide behind.

I don’t believe all these hunters that leave an animals carcass behind are all maggots. If I tanned all the animals I killed my house would look like a trappers trading post. I’m simply not doing that. It’s not a waste to me to leave the hide behind.

Supernaut. You are being wasteful lol

I've never heard of anyone packing out a moose hide by themselves on foot. Loading from kill site onto a motorized vehicle, raft, pack animal, wagon, yes. And generally that would be two hunters doing the lifting. An older hunter with compromised strength, and/or shoulder issues, well...you have my respect if you've done it.

My son has packed ~135 lb. of bow shot elk on a pack frame, three miles back to truck, in the CO Rockies. And that's not on a nice wonderful cleared trail either. Twice in one day, so 12 miles walking in and out. But he's motivated and one tough mofo. Most guys, no effing way. Not even kinda slightly.

Here's an article by a guy who killed a moose with an osage selfbow and braintanned the hide. Full details from the hunt through finishing the hide. Very interesting.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.tanhide

Packing out a whole green moose hide.... ha ha! Not sure what one weighs, but the cape on an AK bull will go around 75lbs on its own. If I showed up at the landing strip with a whole moose hide my pilot would likely tell me either the hide or I get a ride out....not both!

I've participated in packing a handful of elk and 4 moose. I don't generally look for extra trips in and out. My bull in AK last year took us 10 man loads boned out.

R

Come on Ryan. Take that moose hide home home a make a rug for your bride :)

I just got done getting the hair off that doe hide. Came off easy this time. Very nice skin. In water with a little salt and vinegar now. Rinse and stretch it out tomorrow.

Trad MT are you filling in for Jimmy jump aka baby spa

HVAC. You been breathing too much Freon

No I quit too hard on the lungs

Wayne H x 2!

Jeff- thanks for the link.

I was given 1/2 a moose hide, and 3 full black bear hides from a feller that had one moose mount and 7 bear mounts already..... we traded some things and he couldn’t use the hides, I don’t think the missus wanted anymore mounts lol I’m waiting for ideas:) the moose is very nice to sleep upon:) Having brain tanned a whitetail, I can’t imagine a moose! Trying to trade a bear skin for a not yet made Anorak right now.....

I’m certainly glad this feller that LOVES to goes north tries to use as much as possible, or find someone that can.

I try to use all I can,clean it , save it and use it on future projects, It not for everyone that's for sure. Lots of time and work involved and some just aren't into it and I understand but as for me I save it/use it/trade it and give a lot away to people that aren't as blessed as I am to have excess to it.Here are a few pictures of things I use it for. Handles for knives and tool and deer toes for stops of knife stands and other projects. Pappy

Clothes,

Rawhide for future tanning and other projects.

More hides in the works, I think I have done 15 so far this year. Pappy

Fat rendered into lard for all kind of stuff from finish work to water proofing boot and other things.use just like mink oil. Pappy

Bones for all kinds of stuff from handles to tip over lays.

Deer leg skins for bags and other cool projects.

Antlers for all sorts of stuff.

Sinew for bow/wraps/thread and cordage.

And of course rawhide that is good for all kinds of stuff, Like I said not for everyone and it is a labor of love and for some it is worth the effort. Pappy

Excellent Pappy.

WOW! Good job Pappy!

Nice!

It really depends on the situation. For me it is meat first and unless you need some leather for some project really bad, it is not worth dealing with deer family hides. Hair on tanning for deer family animals is pretty much useless, because the hair has poor mechanical properties on the hide. Braintan deer hides are great for pants and shirts. Bark-tan hides are great for bags etc. Moose and elk hides are thick and have limited usage. For hair on, a buffalo rug or a furbearer blanket is nice to have, depending on the style of your home's interior. Braintan has the issue, that is cannot really be easily mechanized to be competitive. It has great material properties for example for pants. Much more durable than jeans, which are now rubbed through somewhere when they get good and need to be replaced. I always have some braintan skins around for when I need something with the properties. But if I'd tan all my deer hides, I'd have a bigstack of leather that would not be used and is hard to sell because of the price tag. There is a reason you don't find top quality hides for sale cheap.

The preparation of th hides can be done similar than in modern tanneries, but then it get a little more tricky. The trickiest part would be to mechanize the "working dry" of the brained wet hide. Even though with modern robots, that would be possible,too. Problem: How to make $$$ with that?

Yep, there's a lot of work in a braintanned hide, but there's nothing like it.

There are 4 braintanned deer hides on ebay now ranging in price from about $1000 to $1500. That seems high.

This is a BS price. $20-25 a sqft. for top quality braintan. Ebay is not the place for that. In addition, wrong time of tge year.

Yeah I can't imagine anyone paying that. Usually they're a few hundred bucks. And like you noted, wrong time of year, but the crazy price is why they're still on there.

WOW,They think a lot of them, I guess if you figured your time and and average wage they would be worth it,just a very small market, I figure I have 30/40 hours in one,not including killing it :) I don't sell them but they do make great trade material. Pappy

Economics 101.

Getting my gold dental crown installed today. ~Three hours of dental work/cap fabrication ~$2000, possibly significantly more--I'll find out soon. :D

ebay brain tan hide is 10X the work. Professionals make $$$$. Laborers make $. Did that all my life. Been that way forever and always will be that way, in a free economy. Anybody can brain tan if they apply themselves to the task. NOBODY does crowns but a dentist.

Just like everything else, time and desire,, the more you do the better you are at doing it. Those who don't should be more respectful of those that do.

Depending on the state of kill I thought you were not allowed to sell deer parts antlers hides .

I have heard that also Joe, but people do it all the time so not sure if it is a law or they just don't enforce it.Don't matter much to me because like I said I usually use it/give it away or trade.Don't want to or try to turn hobbies I love into money making business. Pappy

Bartering is not selling. :) none of the hides I was GIVEN were taken in the state of Pa. nor in this country.

Jeff was saying eBay has hides on there for sale

Bob I have 3 gold crowns that are 35 years old. A Cadillac won’t last that long . And just Look at the money LeBron James makes. Lol.

There are supply houses that buy hides from sportsmen and resell them so it must be legal in enough places.

By the way, Moscow Hide and Fur's current selection of braintanned deer hides run from $425 to $575. They sell all kinds of skins and body parts from wild animals on there.

I looked through the PGC game law summary book and could only find this, "It is unlawful to sell inedible parts from game or wildlife that was lawfully taken(including taxidermy mounts), unless such parts are disposed of by the original owner within 90 days of the close of the season in which the game or wildlife was taken."

What the heck does that even mean? That raises a lot more questions than answers. We'd probably have to look in the full text version of the game laws to find out the real deal, not in 'the summary'.

Found it. Here's the full version. Sounds like it's legal to sell inedible parts.

§ 2312. Buying and selling game.

(a) General rule.--Unless otherwise provided, it is unlawful for any person to buy, sell or barter, or aid, abet, assist or conspire to buy, sell or barter, or offer for sale or barter, or have in possession or transport for sale or barter, any game or the edible parts of game or any protected bird or animal or parts of any protected bird or animal.

(b) Imported game.--It is unlawful for any person to sell or barter, or offer for sale or barter, any game or wildlife protected by this title imported, either dead or alive, from another state or nation unless there is attached to the carton containing the game or wildlife or to the individual carcasses a tag identifying the game or wildlife in English and giving the state or nation from which originally shipped.

(c) Exception.--

(1) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent:

(i) The purchase or sale of game raised under the authority of a propagating permit in this Commonwealth.

(ii) The capture and sale of game or wildlife after securing a permit from the director and payment of any fees established by the commission.

(iii) The sale of the tanned, cured or mounted heads or skins, or parts thereof, of any game or wildlife not killed in a wild state in this Commonwealth.

(iv) The sale or purchase of any inedible part thereof, from game or wildlife lawfully killed, if such parts are disposed of by the original owner within 90 days after the close of the season in which the game or wildlife was taken.

(v) The sale of mounted specimens by any auctioneer licensed by the Commonwealth. The commission shall require no permit for such action. Any licensed auctioneer who sells ten or more mounted specimens during any one sale at a registered auction house must report those sales to the commission within 15 days of the completion of the sale.

(2) The commission may by regulation authorize the buying and selling of inedible parts of game and wildlife as it deems appropriate.

(3) This subsection shall not be construed to permit any individual or agency other than the commission to sell the skins or parts of game or wildlife killed as a protection to crops, or accidentally killed upon the highways, or seized as contraband.

(d) Penalty.--A violation of this section relating to:

(1) Threatened or endangered species shall be graded as follows:

(i) A first offense is a misdemeanor of the second degree and may result in forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take game or wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of seven years.

(ii) A second offense within a seven-year period or during the same criminal episode is a misdemeanor of the first degree and may result in forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take game or wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of ten years.

(iii) A third or subsequent violation of this section within a seven-year period or during the same criminal episode is a felony of the third degree and may result in forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of 15 years.

(2) Big game animals shall be graded as follows:

(i) A first offense or a second offense during the same criminal episode is a misdemeanor and may result in forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take game or wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of five years.

(ii) A second offense within a seven-year period or a third or fourth offense during the same criminal episode is a misdemeanor of the first degree and may result in the forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take game or wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of ten years.

(iii) A fifth or subsequent offense during the same criminal episode or third offense within a seven-year period is a felony of the third degree and may result in forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take game or wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of 15 years.

(3) The selling and buying of venison up to 20 pounds and the buying and selling of other game or wildlife is a summary offense of the first degree and may result in the forfeiture of the privilege to hunt or take game or wildlife anywhere within this Commonwealth for a period of three years.

(Dec. 21, 1998, P.L.1274, No.166, eff. 60 days; July 9, 2008, P.L.920, No.65, eff. imd.; July 9, 2010, P.L.387, No.54, eff. 60 days)

2010 Amendment. Act 54 amended subsecs. (a) and (d). See section 6 of Act 54 in the appendix to this title for special provisions relating to public notice.

2008 Amendment. Act 65 amended subsec. (c)(1).

On average, an experienced brain-tanner has about 6-8 hours in a hide, depending on the size and thickness of the hide and what tanning method is applied (wet vs dry scraped). Bucks are generally a little harder to tan than does or require thinning in the neck area which takes time. So if an average hide is 8 sqft @ $20/sqft, you are around $20/hour. If you do it in 6 hours, you make a little more.... The right tools and techniques saves a lot of time and not required manual work. It still remains a highly manual task. A normal chemical modern tan is $3-$4 a sqft for comparison.

Wow Roland you know some good tanners, I sure don't consider my self an expert but have probably brain tanned over 100 and made into just rawhide many more than that and I will have close to that much time in them that you mentioned/skinning/fleshing/getting in the rack and scrapping the hair, not to mention soaking in the brains 5 or 6 times/ringing them out stretching/till dry and smoking, though I was pretty good at it but guess I have a lot to learn, anyway as I said before most of this stuff is just a labor of love, if I wanted to make money I would find another way. Pappy

Compliments to all here do this hard work. It is just another hobby I dont need at 74,lol. I know I paid $30.00 for a 2' by 3' piece of thick moose hide for a leg pad for flintkapping years ago. I need a new one but I am sure the costs are way up on moose hides.

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