Last year I was thinking about buying a Bear Montana, since so many seem very happy with them. I was checking out used bows and found this 1998 JD Berry Scorpion, 64", 58@28, for $250. So I bought that instead. Out shooting today and wondered if anyone else shoots an older R/D long bow and how you think it compares to a Montana. Post pictures if you got them, A good reason to show some of those older bows.

I think you made a good choice. I have shot a couple of the Bear Montana's and they just didn't appeal to me, but that's me. It's what you like and feels right for you. I shot a Dwyer longbow and like it so much that I had Dave build me his Original model, 66" and 44# @ 28", that bow is just an awesome bow, (for me). Another longbow I have, and I they are also awesome bows, is Yellowstone longbows. I have a Half Breed T/D and Hunter model.

I have no comparison. Your bow seems to highly resemble the Montana. I can't imagine shooting a Montana at that DW. You can use modern, fast flight strings on the Montana. 8125s made mine seem a bit stronger and noticeably quicker.

The Montana is a good enough bow but certainly nothing special.Pretty much any bow, especially a custom made like yours, will equal or easily surpass a Montana in performance and quality. You made a wise choice.

Pretty hefty statement on the Montana. “Pretty much any bow” is certainly a stretch. I have three bows that the Montana surpasses in performance and quality. Do you own both bows? Have you shot a Montana with fast strings?

I bought a new Montana and didn’t care for it, started stacking at 28” and got worse out to 30”. It quickly left my possession. Purchased a Firefly Messenger R/D and am much happier.

The overlays on my bow do include a layer of phenolic, and that is a fast flight string. The bow is quick, shock free, and fun to shoot. I have never shot a newer Montana so I can't compare. My bow is pretty fancy with sculpted tip overlays and the famous Berry Bug at the upper limb tip.

Mr. Warren,

Do you not often find stacking to begin at the rated DW at length? How many arrows did you shoot? I'm really curious.

Was never a fan of the Montana, good decision on your part.

The overlays are a nice touch. Do you think they are original from 1998? What is it like to pull 58# on that bow? The narrowness of the bow and grip at that weight would, to me, seem to demand a firm, precise (more closed in) grip.

The Montana is an average bow with an inflated price just because it says BEAR on the limb. And yeah, I've shot enough of them including the new ones, to form an educated opinion of them.

My draw is about 27, so likely it is more like 55. I keep a somewhat loose grip, the bow is stout but smooth. I like to regularly shoot heavier bows to keep my strength up. At 65 it is too easy to start short drawing my lighter bows. I find the bow very enjoyable too shoot. I am sure those tips are original to the bow. The whole bow is original, very nice shape. I also have a Vixen that is 62 at 27. Can't shoot that as long, but I work at it.

Educated opinions are usually more specific. I too believe the Montana is priced too high. But, high is relative. The first Montana I ever picked up was at a Cabelas. It felt a bit like holding a 1x2 at the grip. The bows were sitting upright in a display box that made them appear even cheaper. But, the counter guy strung up a 45# with the sub par D97 and once I pulled the string back, the awkward grip feel abated. No stacking until a bit past 28”. I walked away neither impressed or unimpressed. Not too long after, I saw an old Jeff Kavanagh video where he was shooting a Montana his kids bought for themselves and he could only say, repeatedly, that it was a nice little bow. His demonstration was like all his others, very impressive with shooting skills evident. I realize he is a Bear fan. But, based on the review, I rethought the Montana and eventually bought one from a guy who shot maybe 50 arrows with it. I swapped the string and in a short time was happy with the bow. Not pretty, not custom, overpriced new, but also not poor quality nor a poor performer. It stumps easily through the woods, is quiet and has little hand shock, and that due, I believe, to the 8125s.

I have held, seen and shot some beautiful, handmade bows owned by friends. They don't shoot them much though. And I see recently purchased, expensive custom bows in the classifieds here all the time. I have one custom that I am trying to get a friend to sell me as it is indeed sweet. He likes it better in his closet.

Montana is an OK bow, but not in the same class as a Berry. You did well, Pilgrim, especially at that price.

CStyles, I think you have a winner. Excellent price too.

First of all, you're comparing a 68" bow, with likely more precise lamination (maybe not), and the 4 extra inches add much comfort to the draw. As for a Montana stacking at 28, I don't buy that unless you can show me a real force-draw on it. It may start to stack at 29, but again...where's the evidence?

As for making a good buy on that one? Well....DUH! JD Berry's bows have always been top notch and at $250.00 you pretty much got a 1980's price. :) I would take that bow anyday over many other bows, not just the Montana.

I have a Jack Smith, 68" d/r that is an awesome bow also.

“Do you not often find stacking to begin at the rated DW at length? How many arrows did you shoot? I'm really curious.”

It was my first trad bow and I didn’t know any better. I just assumed the stacking that felt more like a wall at 30” was normal and that over time the bow would “break in” and be smoother. I shot 40-60 arrows a day for about a month through it. During that time I shot some other more inexpensive bows (Amazon Black Hunter, Galaxy Sage, etc) that were very smooth. The Montana may be great for other people, I was just not happy with it. I have since bought other Bear recurves and other R/D longbows that may stack little but nothing like the Montana.

Warrn, I was after a Bear Super Grizzly blem from the Bear pro shop for a while, twice. I wanted the blem because I thought the retail price was high. I had shot a few different SGs and they were all great pulling bows. I think the SG and the Montana are always in demand which I suppose affects the price.

CStyles, you must be joking....right?! Ok, a Montana is a decent bow. I finally got to shoot one at a BassPro shop. The clerk strung it up, handed me a bunch of carbons...all different spines, sizes. I had never shot a carbon arrow before. Went to the range, they all shot like crap, clerk went and got another bunch and out of maybe 2 dozen that I tried, 4 were ok. The bow was ok, I was surprised to see it had narrow limbs and a deeper core compared to other R/D longbows. I thought it shot pretty good for what arrows I had to use.

You must not be familiar with JD Berry bows. His bows are in a class by themselves. James is a long time friend of mine, hope he doesn't see this thread...it's an insult.

One thing,that bow must've been a special order, he didn't put his hook nocks on Scorpions. Those were reserved for his top of the line bows. You got one heck of a bow for that price.

You made a very good choice. At one time I had 3 Montana's, A JD Berry Morning Star, and a Black Widow LAG. I loved the Morning Star but I simply ordered it too heavy and sadly parted with it. I still have one Montana with a 10 ring string it is real forgiving and ultra quiet for me. The LAG is also outstanding and the grip is the best of any RD longbow I have shot. It is quicker than the Morning Star and Montana but a little louder with the same arrow weight. It's a keeper! Also, Remember, you can usually pick up a used Montana for half the price of new and you might just fall in love with it.

If you decide that bow is not for you , I would be happy to give you your money back!

Yaa I would opt for the Scorpion.So its a good decision.James built me a Scorpion in the early 2000s and it was his base model bow.Same performance pretty much as his other mild R&D bows.You did well to get the the nice tips with that bow that add a nice tough for sure.

Never had a Montana.Getting ragged on hear on this thread though it looks like.

I have seen other threads where guys really liked them mostly.

Anyway you did good getting the Berry!

I have had a couple of the Montana's. I have posted this opinion before, but it is relative here. The first bow was a VERY nice shooting bow, it had the Fred Bear face coin. I really liked that bow, but it was 60# and just a tad to heavy for me at the time. The second Montana was a much newer model and I HATED the feel of the grip. It was much more refined/thinner. I like bows that I can actually feel some mass in my hand. Not to completely cross apples and oranges, but my personal taste is that ultra skinny grip is one of MANY issues with modern compound bows as well. What's wrong with putting a full grip on a bow and folks learning how NOT to strangle the darn thing.. Anyhow. The Montana is unfortunately a bow that has some tendencies to not be as tame as it should be when built correct, again my opinion. The bow you went with is beautiful and I bet shoots every bit as good as even a good built Montana. My new to me is a R/D 2010 made Leon Stewarts. Fun to shoot, and although not an old bow, it is 13 now.

-Bones

I shot a bear Montana back in 2002 - 2005. If I would of known better I'd of gotten rid of it after the first 3 months of shooting it instead of three years. Ive had a few encounters with them as of 2017 and 18' and seemed to think it was a bit better than I remembered but still not as impressive as other longbows I've owned. I don't think the early 2000's wasn't the best showing of that model, the handle felt like a block. I've since handled much better specimens of the Montana. Even still, I doubt I would ever buy one new again.

Gee Whiz JMark. I apologize for my "uneducated" opinion. Didn't mean to offend the Highly Educated.

Did not infer your opinion as “uneducated”, just said they are usually more specific. Not even remotely offended. But thanks.

LOL

LOL, lots of them around, just costs a little bit more to go first class !!

Montana threads always make me wish Riverwolf was still on here.

That Scorpion is as great looking bow and I hope you enjoy it!

Incredible price for JD Berry quality. Congrats on making the right choice

The Montana is slower than a hypothermic 2 toed sloth. Baseball bat limb tips add a jolt at the shot equivalent to a Shiatsu massage performed by a band of angry gorillas. Did I mention it's loud?

Send these diarrheic design disasters to me for appropriate dispensation to the rubbish heap. I'll even pay shipping for an early model 60 pounder with that horrendous 2x4 grip.

As you were.

:)

Snow, you are so transparent!

My fav r/d for years was a Robertson Purist, and only quit shooting it because it gained a weight. Smooth shooting well built hunting bow.

That Berry looks good, James is a genius.

There are a lot of those cool old used long bows out there. I bought the Scorpion because I already had a JD Berry Vixen. I knew the craftsmanship was awesome. I found th ad here in the classifieds buried many pages back. Was looking for a used Montana at the time.

These Bear Montana hate threads make me laugh. It is a nice shooting bow.

I had no intention of making this a Montana hate thread. Like anything else some like them some don't. My favourite remains an ASL, many don't like them. At some point I would like to try a newer Montana. I started the thread with the intention to point out there were many used bows that would make a nice alternative. I expected more people would post pictures of their older longbows. I think another good alternative is a 1950's Bear Polar or Cub.

The economics of the Montana is name brand, availability and subsequent demand. You can get your hands on a retail model in a few days. They, and the Grizzly get their price as a result. All nice, but have nothing to do with the bow. I have shot only two Montana, which is probably more than most. Mine and another 5# lighter. They are both light, quick and silent. I did not find mine initially as easy to shoot, but became accustomed quickly. The grip is not near as bad as the initial impression.

The OP bow picture resembles the Montana. The later picture of the tip did not. By reputation of the bowyer, someone let that bow go pretty cheap. Why? Too much weight, needed money for something, not being used or didn't like the bow for similar reasons as everyone guffawing about the Montana in this thread? A bow is a bow. One person might shoot both bows and choose the Montana. No one in here knows how the OP bow shoots or actually compares, they only guess.

I enjoyed rebutting the shade passing on the Montana. I hope someone else looking on who has interest in a Montana sees the shade for what it is. And I particularly enjoyed Snow's post.

I have a montana that I bought around 2012 (I think) and I always liked it well enough. I'm just glad I'm not a new archer relying on forums for information. Entertainment sure but not information.

Well, I am certainly glad that is settled. Seems there is no need for the opinions of others who can not possibly be as qualified to speak.

Nice looking bow! Good luck with it.

So, not trying to beat this topic into a pulp. But, prior to purchasing my first Montana, I was enthralled by the Hill ASL bows and also JD's. Loved everything about them. Still do. But regardless of my adjustments in grip, arrow weight, bow arm position, etc. the vibration at the shot flared my arthritis in my bow hand and elbow to where I could only shoot a few arrows a day. So, in my quest to find a bow that seemed to closely resemble a true ASL, I started reading reviews and came across one that was done by a dedicated longbow shooter who did a great review comparing his Montana with his Hill Tembo. Great review. But now not sure where I read that. Anyway, after that I bought a 55# Montana and still have it. No hand or elbow issues when shooting it with the same arrow combination I used in the ASL's. And I realize it is an R/D longbow. That was over 10 years ago.

It’s probably silly of me to weigh in on this topic, since I have never shot a Montana, nor a true ASL… But I do own a couple of longbows with varying degrees of R/D to them, and I just have this one thought…

The Bear archery company is in no immediate danger of collapse. The Bear Montana is probably not going away anytime soon. And there are an awful lot of really beautiful “custom” and semi custom bows out there, just waiting to be discovered by that one shooter for whom they will be exactly the right thing. There are bowyers out there like Mike McCredy at Mad dog who have been doing great work for a long time, but who are about ready to hang it up for various reasons. I don’t know if we have passed a particular golden age for small shops or if it’s just a gradual changing of the guard, but if buying a good used bow frees up someone else’s budget to buy their next new one, I don’t see how that’s not kind of a win all the way around for everybody outside of the very biggest companies.

And I would take the bow in the OP over just about anything coming out of a larger shop in a heartbeat. It’s just got its own mojo just looking at it.

I am a R/D Longbow guy nothing wrong with ASL I going to get one soon. I would pick the used JD Berry over the new Montana that just me NOT SAYING anything wrong with the Montana.

Corax,

I am a proponent of “buy local” in my community. If there were bowyers or meets nearby, I might find a bow that I like, after getting my hands on it. There was a post above where it was stated that relying on forums for information is a negative. If I lived in an archer rich environment, I might get to see and hold a Toelke or a Martin or any of the other touted bowyers/bow makers bows. I've taken a risk on one bowyer's product. I had some problems and the bowyer made me a duplicate bow, after some time. I like the bow. I appreciate the bowyer standing behind his product. It is not an unattractive bow, not that that matters much to me, and it shoots well. Is it better than my Montana? Not really. My point is, you never know what you are getting, especially if you have no prior access to bows or bowyers. With a company like Bear and what appears to be a consistent product line, people such as myself are likely to see and get hands on one of their bows and feel comfortable that what arrives will be satisfactory.

My brother often says "It's nice for what it is". There is a lot of truth in that. For example, I have a hickory board bow I made. It doesn't shoot as fast or as nice as an ASL, but it is fun to shoot. Point is I think most bows have merit and can be fun to shoot.

Used R/D bow all day long. I shot a Montana once and was not impressed.

I mean it’s a JD Berry, a Montana doesn’t even come close! You’ve got a beautiful bow there!

“ My point is, you never know what you are getting, especially if you have no prior access to bows or bowyers. With a company like Bear and what appears to be a consistent product line, people such as myself are likely to see and get hands on one of their bows and feel comfortable that what arrives will be satisfactory.”

Isn’t that why people go to McDonald’s instead of finding a local diner? I mean… You DO know what you’re going to get….

But on a reputable used bow, you’re not going to lose a lot of money. Maybe the cost of shipping. You buy a new bow, you sell a used one with 10 shots through it, you lose money.

I don’t think you can go horribly, irretrievably wrong with the Montana; I’m pretty sure it shoots an arrow about like every other bow of its general description. Maybe faster than some. And that’s fine. I have a little Remington Mtn Rifle. 7-08. Good ammo, shoots sub-MOA. It’s Fine. It’s not Special, but it’s a good little rifle and I like it. It does what I need it to do. I just don’t LOVE it. Anything I am going to spend as much time with as a bow, I’ve gotta love it. That’s just me. YMMV.

I've never shot a Montana but the one I checked out at BPS didn't look like much.Certainly not in the same class as James' bows.

I had a Montana and really liked it. But check out Great Northern's Field Bow, they are $425 plus shipping and you can get one up to 45#.

I own many longbows and the Bear Montana is cool. Short , no stacking at my 28" draw length . The bow is silent and i got superb accuracy With it ...What else do you ask for a R/D longbow ? I really dont understand this Bear Montana bad press here ... Many here are talking about unimpressive speed ...if i was obssessed by speed i'd rather add wheels to my ASL'S ...

I have both a JD Berry Yewah which is the first custom LB I ever bought and looks very similar to your scorpion pictured above. It's with out a doubt the best I own and ever shot and Jim's Rennaissance which has the arrow inlays on each limb and horn knocks. Very few bows come close what Jim builds and rarely see them up for sale.

I have a Bear Au Sable, which to my eye looks a lot like the Berry Scorpion. I love the Au Sable, probably would love the Scorpion too.

Corax,

I get it, and the McDonalds analogy is interesting, except I won't eat from there for many reasons. Meanwhile, the diner I can walk into, take a look around and have some idea what I'm in for. It's not like I'm being told to drive 100 miles to a supposed great diner (reputable?) and find that it isn't so great. I have a Remington 513-T built in 1948. I like the top load, but it is an ugly rifle, as with the 37. Even so, using the original aperture sights at 100 yards I can keep pace with supposedly better rifles that cost 3+ times what I paid for mine. That, to me, enhances the beauty of the rifle, and I match shoot it a lot. If a rifle or a bow puts it's projectile on target in my hands it's origins and aesthetics are, at best, secondary.

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