I just saw this is kind of funny…

People keep asking me why I bother footing my carbons with aluminum, since they are “tough enough already”…

Exactly. :-)

Rick

Brick wall?

For me it's always that petrified stump that looks rotten from 25 yds. away.

Eww. I'll stay with hickory.

Love the ethics archery insert outsert systems. Incredible how tough they are.

I dunno. Rick… I think the aluminum woulda helped….

So I’m gonna cut off what’s crushed and go back to my 2117 “outserts”…. Yeah, they break…. but the shafts don’t.

Well it does prove one thing the shaft is doing the pushing. Know can you trim it and foot with alum.+ Insert to make it shootable ?

That’s almost repairable not like the ones that split at the nock end. But I have footed those as well. I foot the carbons I wish to keep around like my Easton Axis shafts.

Yeah, I’ve been known to put a collar around the nock end as well. I have been thinking to just install glue-on nock adapters for durability…

Corax, how many hard hits has that taken? I only ask because that tip looks wasted too.

What did you hit?!?

I used to have that problem all the time with shafts made overseas, occasionally I still do but very very seldom!

Some brands seem to mushroom more than others. I wouldn’t shoot an axis arrow without some sort of collar.

Beman centershot I’ve shot for years without a footing and I’ve never had a mushroom.

In order for the shaft to break like that the insert glue has to fail as it gets shoved up inside the shaft. Part of the reason I use grey jb weld epoxy

"People keep asking me why I bother footing my carbons with aluminum,...."

Now you have something to show them.

On a few occasions, I have done the same but the arrow hit the rebar rod in the target or, I missed and hit a rock.

I never kept track of exact numbers, but it seemed to happen less when i used Beman Bowhunter shafts and attached the insert with 2-part epoxy.

if this were a common issue and concern the compound folks would be posting about it. i don't think footing is necessary but if you do, that is all that matters.

The better you get as a shooter, the less you bend or break any arrow, but none are indestructible anyway, so it's merely a choice. I have a few of those too, pluse some bent aluminum and a bunch of broken wood. You choose your loyalty from your own experience, but if you continually break arrows, then work on getting better and choosing better targets.

You guys are expecting an arrow to do something it wasn't intended to do. All this reinforcement isn't necessary if you stop shooting at hard things. Not real hard to figure out.

My aluminum are only shot at foam, bag targets, or tufts of grass with a Judo. When I shoot stumps its with cheap wood arrows.

[[[ "I dunno. Rick… I think the aluminum woulda helped….

So I’m gonna cut off what’s crushed and go back to my 2117 “outserts”…. Yeah, they break…. but the shafts don’t." ]]]

Exactly - Again. :-)

If I am shooting arrows, that have outserts for the points, I don't foot them. If they have inserts, they get footed.

Yeah, I know - don't shoot hard stuff.

But, I can't help it. I'm an adventurous soul, and sometimes the temptation is more than I can resist. :-)

Rick

Sounds like many shoot arrows only into soft media like foam or straw and/or restrict themselves to only taking 'safe' shots. Archery is supposed to be FUN. But, to each their own. :)

Corax- that mushroom is precisely what footings (and nock collars) prevent. The insert, point, even the footing itself might get buggered on a hard frontal impact but the shaft will remain intact: strip components, reassemble, re-shoot.

I have never footed an arrow. I have mushroomed both carbon and aluminum.

Are you guys sure that footing a carbon will save it if shot from a 60lb bow, into something like a hard stump ?

MP

If carbon arrow shafts are so tough, why is the archery club where I shoot littered with pieces of carbon shafts? And why don't people who shoot such arrows clean up their mess?

exactly how does one add an aluminum foot to a carbon arrow. Is there a particular aluminum arrow size that slides over the carbon, let's say a carbon 500 arrow? Does anyone have a picture?

got bunches of outcast arrows n its a lot of fun to make franken arros all the excuse I need! (:

2117 slides right onto most “woodgrain” carbons; Centershots fit a 20XX. Either way, you can either slip the footing on before you mount the insert or you can use an aluminum insert in the aluminum shaft and cap the carbon with that; that’s what I usually do, because when there is a hard impact, the aluminum will give and I just need to remove the remainder of the old footing and replace the whole works. I do reuse whatever components I can recover, although a lot of times the point will launch into low orbit, landing somewhere out over the Atlantic, I suppose … ;)

Un-coated carbons seem to be an awkward, in-between size, so I’m searching for the right glue. Now using 2-part epoxy instead of superglue or Gorilla.

I have been using hot melt glue for my inserts lately, because it’s easier to recover components than when using superglue; I’m hoping that I can use heat to get the epoxy to let go, although it seems to be something of a challenge to get the last of the epoxy off of the components once you’ve gotten them pulled part.

“how many hard hits has that taken? I only ask because that tip looks wasted too.”

Probably One, since these arrows are about brand new. That’s about all it takes around here in rocky New England.

Yes, my arrows would last longer if I only took shots at slam-dunk distances, but what fun would that be?

They help a ton if you're into roving roving, especially with fast bows and higher draw weight. I've used both factory and home made, personally wouldn't pay more for factory, no advantages. You're gonna loose some press in nocks, I guess they like to pop out when arrows don't fail. All the energy has to go somewhere. They are a little hard to pull out of bag targets. Helps to chuck them in a drill and bevel the back end a little. Really cheap insurance. Lancaster archery sells single aluminum shafts, don't have to buy a dozen.

I dunno if this’ll work, but usually at LW-approved hunting distances, I shoot pretty OK….

Mpdh: "...will (footing) save it if shot from a 60lb bow, into something like a hard stump ?"

Does 600+ grains of blunt tipped arrow from 55# bouncing straight back from petrified pine count? :)

I might be hunting for an ejected nock after that but the odds are very good the front end and shaft will be in perfect working order.

Even a short 1/2" footing will help limit or eliminate mushrooming if installed properly. Use an epoxy or original Gorilla Glue (thanks again, Rick!), not super glue, and make sure you have a flush dry fit before glueing.

They may be "tough" But they are not indestructible. Why else would the manufacturers put tiny little warning lables on the shafts reminding you to check them for damage?

Nope, not indestructible, why is why some of us prefer to toughen ’em up a bit where we can.

I haven’t shot any hard stumps with #60, but I’ve shot plenty of granite with low #50s….

And the footings will stand up to a hit that will shred an Ace BH ferrule…

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