Happy Thanksgiving to all!

I own a 6’ long bow, really a flat bow but why argue, at 40- 45# and a Bear Montana at 45#. I have not owned a recurve since I was a Yoot. A local sporting goods store deal. No idea of the pull on it. Anyway, the 45# pull at 28” on both of my long bows at my roughly 29” DL is the maximum pull I am interested in.

I had the opportunity to shoot a few arrows recently with a custom recurve with 35# at 28”. Maybe a 60” bow. It “seemed” a bit stiffer pull than what I was expecting for 35#. The owner has had the bow for years and has a draw length a few inches less that mine, judging from his arrow lengths, so maybe the bow retains a good bit of unused flex.

A lot of preamble, sorry about that. The question. On average, is a recurve pull going to feel more stout at a given weight than a long bow? Yes, bow length matters, so let's say in the 60+” AMO range. And, while I think it might be nice to have a 35# recurve, I'd like to be able to still use my 400 spine arrows (with maybe lighter tips).

Thanks for any thoughts…

Recurves usually have a little more initial tension on the string, which will make them feel a bit stiffer from the start vis-a-vis a longbow. Longbows tend to stack a little more than recurves so if anything, a recurve should feel lighter at the same weight as a longbow drawn to the same length.

If the bow seems heavier than 35# to you, it probably is. Any way you can check it with a bow scale.

iI should add, 400s will be too stiff for a 35# bow, particularly with lighter heads, say 125 grains or so. I'm surprised they fly well for you out of your 45# bows, closer to 47-48 at your 29-inch draw. I think 500s would be a better match for your current set up, and 600s if you go to 35-37#, if that's what it really is.

Thanks Orion. I have a history of shooting wooden arrows. Usually 45-50 on their charts is how they sell which seems to translate at the border of 400 and 500 spine.

My 6' long bow with Dacron won't perform well any lower and shoots well with some 400 spine carbon trad gold tips I picked up here using 125 grain tips. The Montana works well with those same carbon arrows with 100 grain tips. I still prefer wood, but they take a beating after a while in my hands, so I'm testing the carbon.

The recurve I mentioned is not for sale, just an experience that caught my attention. I have been thinking of getting a recurve at 35# - 45# or maybe lower just to see how I like it. The myriad Black Hunter bows available seem an easy trial option. The Galaxy bows, I believe, are made in the same place as a Lancaster brand that will cost a bit more, but be easily returnable if they show up with incorrect specs or defects.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

JMark....Orion is telling you right.

And then consider that wood arrow shafting, and synthetic arrow starting are measured under different parameters.

A carbon or aluminum.arrow that is listed as .400 will be considerably stiffer than wooden arrow that is listed as .400 using the typical method of measuring deflection of each material within the industry.

fdp,

I'm good, and trust that Orion is giving good advice. If I can get into some 500 spine carbons, I'll give them a try. As for charts, I have noticed they are not universal by any means. I forgot to mention that I bought some wooden 50-55 that worked, and still work with those that remain, with the longbow. Not so much with the Montana. And there was a difference in the Montana when I put an 8125 string on it that let me drift into trying heavier/stiffer arrows. I enjoy the “what happens when…” aspect of learning I suppose.

But, the real concern I had was whether a recurve bow would pull differently at particular pull weights than what I am accustomed. I live in compound bow country and don't have a lot of feedback options close by.

JM. Just so you know, a .500 in carbon is about a 63# spine, a .400 is about 78-79#, using the Easton measurement ( 1.94# weight hung from the center of the arrow on posts set 28 inches apart). A 45# wood measures .700 using the same measurement method. It comes out at about .580 if measured with the original parameters for wood (2# weight with posts 26 inches apart).

You can shoot a bit heavier than your woodies with carbons because they're skinnier and ride closer to the center of the bow. Your carbons are probably 5/16 diameter. Your woodies are likely 11/32. Using a skinnier arrow has the same effect as using a thinner side plate and/or cutting the bow side plate more toward center/deeper.

Lots of factors go into determining the best arrow for a particular bow, including arrow length, spine and weight, including the distribution of that weight, i.e. a lot weight forward vs. not so much, shooter's draw length, amount of bow center shot, low stretch vs. dacron string, the shooter's idiosyncracies, and a few other things.

Long story short, I think you would get better arrow flight shooting a softer spined carbon, and it's unlikely that you will be able to get one spine to shoot well out of the 45# bows and the 35# bow.

Orion,

Going last to first, yes, very unlikely.

I get the myriad variables. The oddity of it all is that my heaviest arrows are my best shooters. Wood, advertised at 45-50, very stiff relative to my other wood arrows, though not measured for deflection, 568 grains or 12.6 grains per # pull. Excellent shooters in both bows. I think these arrows might have been mislabeled at Rose City.

My carbons are 50-70 grains less and shoot very well in both bows with the Gold Tip Trad 400s with unknown insert weight and 100 grain tips excelling with the Montana.

The lightest arrows I have are pine hunters advertised at 45-50 weigh in at 480 grains, flex easily and wobble out of both bows, more so the longer bow.

None of my results, mostly feel and performance, match anything I read. And, are as noted, rather odd. Another consideration is that I shoot normally at about 3,900 feet above sea level and in colder, denser wind a good part of the year.

All very interesting. I appreciate your input very much.

It boils down to shoot what works for you. The various charts are just a starting point. Regardless, I recommend you invest in your own spine tester. With wood arrows in particular, you can't be sure what their spines are. Vendors don't always group according to spine very closely. And even carbon arrows have a lot of variability. Good luck in your experimentation. It is educational and part of the fun. :>)

Sure wish they would the carbon arrow people would go back to the old way of telling spine. Like 35-55, 30-50, etc. now Easton is trying to screw up their aluminum sizing using 500 spine, 400, etc. God forbidden they got together and standardized the sizing like AMO standards.

Dacron string, and that weight, you aren't near 400's. I would love to watch your arrow flight to prove me wrong though. Can you get someone to video your shot from behind you and slightly above? That would help clear the air a bit.

Geo,

I don't know that the air is murky. It's just what I find, have and shoot and how the new to me carbon compares to my wood experience.

And again, the question was about recurve pull versus longbow pull.

I'll see if I can set up something with a cell phone cam.

If you can get a Samick Sage, or Black hunter with both sets of limbs, and could draw them you would know which you prefer. The edge might go to the long bow limbs, and if they feel that much better for what ever reason that may end up being your choice. I have tried both, and the difference is marginal at best for me, and not a great deal of difference in arrow speed, but what you prefer may not be what the next guy prefers.

“Sure wish they would the carbon arrow people would go back to the old way of telling spine. Like 35-55, 30-50, etc. ”

15-35 is a .600; 35-55 is a .500; 55-75 is a .400.. Easton is selling the black GameGetters as a lower-cost option that’s marked in a way that even a Compound shooter can grasp.

;)

I guess length really changes things. Cut to 28”, I need #60+ to shoot a .400/2117… with 200 grain points.

20-40 predators are 655 spine full length. I shoot them out of my 35lb. target bows. Both glass,and wood self bows with a 100 gr field point, and have no problems with tune. Same with 400 spine 31.5 inch long Beman carbon shaft with a 160 gr. broad head out of my 45 lb, glass recurves. All bows have skinny low stretch strings. So many variables involved.

In my experience, it depends on the bow design whether or not the bow will pull smooth or not, yes length plays a role to a degree.

I have a 62 inch 44 lb longbow that pulls smoother than some 62" recurves. I have a mid 70s 45 lb Bear Grizzly that pulls very smooth. To me, if the bow is built right, longbow or recurve can pull smooth.

But, sometimes the string angle on some shorter bows can make it seem like it's not as smooth because of the string angle at full draw.

Should be little to no difference in drawing a recurve compared to the same weight longbow. That said, I would recommend no more than 40# at your draw length to start with. You will enjoy shooting more, which should equal better accuracy. That weight modern recurve will kill every deer in my home state of MI, and we have some large deer.

Geo,

I have video. What a fiasco. First attempts produced a lot of elbow in the way. PM me with your email addy.

Thanks to all for replies.

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