I am making some shafts due to having a hard time finding what i need in my spine range 75-80. It has been a rewarding process so far and and glad I took it on. I like making everything and this is a great progression. So I have a fews questions.

This is all wood from a friends property. I cut some green doug fir(DF) and lodge pole(LP) that are green and I am letting them season. I have glued the ends. They looked really good a straight. Clear obviously as well. I also cut a dead LP and was pleasantly surprised how well the first shafts came out. I cut them into 1/2 x 1/2 inch square and then ran them through a veritas 3/8 dowel cutter. Rough they are just shy of 3/8. I did a prelim sanding and then spined them around 85-95. I was very excited about that. That said here are my questions.

I don't have a moisture meter, but I am sure they have more to dry. Should I dowel them and let dry? Should i get them down to 1/2 by 1/2 and let dry? should I dry the wood in bigger dimensions? Is tapering the ends going to lighten the spine much?

Any other experiences or advice is welcome.

I would cut or split them in to blanks and stack them "stickered" until they finish drying.

Dean, what length Shaft/arrow do you shoot.

Dean, what length Shaft/arrow do you shoot.

I would cut them into 1/2" squares. I never was able to get the wood to dry out as much as I wanted if left in a board or log. I do live in a very humid climate.

Tapering your shaft will affect the spine very little. I too live in Montana and usually our humidity is very low this year is an exception, so it will probably take longer to season. I would season them in 1/2" squares. I think you will really like the lodge pole shafts, great arrow wood tuff and not as heavy on average as Doug Fir. I used lodge pole for many, many years in my arrow making business.

Bob

I usualy shoot an arrow in the 29” bop range. My whistler just like a heavy spine and there is no way around it. I got another nice dead LP last night. Going to work on them this weekend. I am letting the green DF and LP log season. My shop gets warm and wood for gun stocks and bows has seasoned well.

I also think the 1/2” stock drying is a good idea. Just wanted to hear what others had to say. Of the 5 i quickly doweled up only one dried into a wicked bow. Interestingly enough i had just that one in my basement overnight while the other 4 stayed in the shop? Not sure if there is a correlation there. I think if i get to work i can twist some up for the season. I need them to look like this.

I search online for 50’s-60’s vintage 23/64” POC’s in the 70-80# range.. It takes time, but so far I’ve scored some really nice shafts. I believe they’re much tougher than the newer, POC shafts available. I recently bought some from a member on the ‘Wall who pm’d me about some he no longer wanted.

I appreciate the heads up but cedar just never did it for me. I tried a few and the were always so brittle.

Honestly, if i can master this (or at least get decent), picking my own wood for arrows has always been something i wanted to do. I never gave it a good go. I like where it's going.

Well done Nothing like being self sufficient with shafts.As for moisture content In the climate I live in I try for between 4% and 12% moisture content.Thats using Douglas fir and Baltic pine.I12% and 4% are the max and min I use.Once arrows are well sealed they tend to stay stable for me. Osr.

" I also cut a dead LP and was pleasantly surprised how well the first shafts came out."

That is your tip. A tree that is downed, is usually edging towards dry. They cut a lot of the best arrow and guitar wood from leftover stumps.

At some point you will have so much wood it will sit around, and urgency of making this season will not exist. At that point I would far rather have wood in bulk. I prefer 2 inches. It won't take long to dry, and you can then process it for whatever you want, or sell it. But the idea of stickering a bunch of 1/2" pieces only makes sense if you are trying to push the season.

What you actually have as a default size, depends on personal preference and you tooling.

Wet wood will not dry shrunk, it dries in a lot of diferent ways, depending, but oval is closer. There is always a way to make stuff using wet wood, particularly if the thing came from a time before widespread use of kilns. However, for shafts, I don't see any advantage to working wet if you have tooling.

To get the moisture content, cut a 1 inch cube of the wet wood, and weigh it, then slow bake it in an oven or food dryer, and when the weight stops changing it is bone dry, record that rating. You can then determine the moisture content relative to dry. Then you can let it rise to your ambient and determine that, and compare it to strength rating for that wood. You really only need to start with a cube if you want to get an easy specific gravity number. You can find what you need from arrows, or any scrap.

The whole point to tapering the shaft is that it does not change the spine. You can taper and get the same stiffness, and you can tell that with your spine meter, just by measuring. As you know from looking at a lot of products from masts on ships to airplane wings, tapering does not make products more flexible. However the idea taper is parabolic, if you don't want any change, and the techniques used to make arrows, tend to be straight line tapering, so following that, you would get some weakening of the spine.

Tapering reduces weight, which you may not want. It should also make the arrow shoot more as if the bow's centershot were greater. This because the end of the arrow will sit on the rest like a smaller shaft, but when released it should flex past the riser, so it is as if the 3/8" part did not exist.

Beware of fir and pine. Grain runout, is the most important, however, both those woods split easily. Spruce is much more split resistant, and has the ideal strength to weight ratio for our use. POC, whether through marketing, or it's nature had the best grain. So when using inferior woods that split easily, beware of any grain flaws whatever. Grain runout for arrows should approach perfection, however, Trying to make perfect shafts for weight, spine and grain, is very difficult. A woodstove or a lot of weaker friends would be desirable.

I use hardwoods mostly. Like Bowlim said, after dropping the tree I like to reduce it to large planks 2" thick, sticker & stack it in a part of the garage in ambient humidity, at least until it reaches equilibrium there at 14% or so, and it may be stored there for years if I'm in no rush for it. When I need to replenish my stock in the shop which is kept at 45-50% rh, I take a large piece in and square it up, reduce it in size if needed for ease of storage, and let it finish drying there. Wood tends to be dry enough before I need it in the shop because I have a surplus, so mine usually doesn't get reduced to 1/2 x 1/2 until it's dry enough to turn down.

You guys could do it far easier than you do.I have for many years exclusively used recycled salvaged wood.Its normally well seasoned and the older wood is generally old growth.It does need de nailing and going over with a metal detector.Forget all that seasoning.This wood can be used immediately.Best thing is it's easy to get and it's free.I do like to have plenty on hand .I may have over done it though as I have well over 3.000 odd shafts.By far my favourite and best wood is Baltic pine but the majority of my blanks are Douglass fir.Just cut 100 yesterday. Or

I'm going to disagree somewhat with Bowlin on some points he has made,

1."The whole point to tapering the shaft is that it does not change the spine." I disagree; yes it does maintain spine, however the point of tapering is the arrow will overcomes paradox much faster, allowing the arrow to begin spinning on its axis sooner, resulting is a flatter trajectory.

2. "However the ideal taper is parabolic, if you don't want any change, and the techniques used to make arrows, tend to be straight line tapering," That might be true of the modern arrow makers, however the origin of tapered shafts they were parabolic tapers. I suggest you examine arrows of the past (way back in time) you will find they were parabolic.

The equipment I used when in the arrow making business did produce a parabolic taper.

Bob

Just be prepared to make many shafts to get a dozen in the 75-80 spine range.

Bob, how did you manage such a taper, sounds very interesting.

Yes Bob I think the same in regards to taper.I actually made my last batch of arrows double tapered (barreled).from the knock 5/16 mid shaft 3/8 Point 11/32.Some ideas on seasoning moisture content has a lot to do with environmental condition and also wood specie.If you work in an air /moisture controlled workshop and get say 7% moisture it will essentially remain the same once the arrow is made and sealed well.I had arrows in high humidity environments which read about 7% moisture on average The same arrows were taken to a dry climate.Just being curious I put my moisture meter on one and it remained the same.As comparison I tried a piece of unsealed Douglas fir in my dad's workshop and it was 3% moisture.A tip wood can get too old and if found in a dry climate is not real good for arrows.It becomes brittle and can break easily. Osr

Yes Bob I think the same in regards to taper.I actually made my last batch of arrows double tapered (barreled).from the knock 5/16 mid shaft 3/8 Point 11/32.Some ideas on seasoning moisture content has a lot to do with environmental condition and also wood specie.If you work in an air /moisture controlled workshop and get say 7% moisture it will essentially remain the same once the arrow is made and sealed well.I had arrows in high humidity environments which read about 7% moisture on average The same arrows were taken to a dry climate.Just being curious I put my moisture meter on one and it remained the same.As comparison I tried a piece of unsealed Douglas fir in my dad's workshop and it was 3% moisture.A tip wood can get too old and if found in a dry climate is not real good for arrows.It becomes brittle and can break easily. Osr

May be hard to see My arrow tapers 6/16" knock 3/8" mid shaft and 11/32" point end Osr

I've been making my shafts since the early 90s. I hand plane white pine, which I buy as lumber. I rip the stock into 1/2 inch squares. I also make shafts from natural shoots.

I think you meant it the other way around.

Anyway, Machino, there is much on my site.

http://traditionalarchery101.com

jawge

I got back to fiddling away at some arrows. I hear the points made by some about salvaged materials and such but I like the idea of making the arrows from complete start to finish.

My table saw switch burnt out so I was dead in the water, but got back after it this weekend. Ive been using Lodge Pole and Doug Fir. I want the LP to work out but the Fir is giving me a better product. I have cut most board into 1/2"x3" to dry. That said I have twisted some because i couldn't wait anymore. They are looking good and spining way high which is good as I need 75-80#. Im going to sand down to correct spine when fully seasoned.

I got back to fiddling away at some arrows. I hear the points made by some about salvaged materials and such but I like the idea of making the arrows from complete start to finish.

My table saw switch burnt out so I was dead in the water, but got back after it this weekend. Ive been using Lodge Pole and Doug Fir. I want the LP to work out but the Fir is giving me a better product. I have cut most board into 1/2"x3" to dry. That said I have twisted some because i couldn't wait anymore. They are looking good and spining way high which is good as I need 75-80#. Im going to sand down to correct spine when fully seasoned.

Nice.

Very good.

Beautiful!

Those look great!

Those look great Ya gotta luv recycled wood.I just recently made two Turkish barreled flight arrows One has a two piece bone and ivory reinforced knock And the other has an ebony two piece knock Footed Douglas fir and Silky oak with small brass ranged point Osr

Those look great Ya gotta luv recycled wood.I just recently made two Turkish barreled flight arrows One has a two piece bone and ivory reinforced knock And the other has an ebony two piece knock Footed Douglas fir and Silky oak with small brass ranged point Osr

The points and knocks are supported with flush finished with no protrusions.Osr IV

75-80? Good grief. I will get a hernia just thinking about that. I envy such strength.

Machino I don't even have my table saw set up .When I cut blanks I just take my skillsaw and plunge cut it through a 3/4" piece of ply.I then fix it to the ply with the blade exposed. I then just get a scrap of wood and nail it to the ply as a fence.My only other piece of power tool I use is a variable speed electric drill for final spin sanding.All hand plane.All my footed arrows are cut by hand too.This shaft making thing has got out of hand for me as I now have over 3.000 blanks in storage.It is a few plastic trash cans full and that's why I have my blanks in storage.You have been doing some good work there as your shafts look great.I use recycled salvaged wood exclusivly and as such I have to de nail it.My metal detector is my friend.I had a piece of wood that indicated metal but all I could see was a small knot.I just ignored it and cut my blanks.On planing the blank the small knot turned out to be a small piece of lead shot.I got no idea how long ago it hit the tree but it has healed over pretty good.Just looked similar to a pin knot.Keep up your good work I am impressed Fellow shaft maker Osr

Bow limb you are so wrong in regards to tapering shafts.I may have mis read your post but you seem to contiadict the first part of what you wrote.A short taper doesn't alter spine much but a full length taper will.I know this to be true as I have been doing this since 1970.I actually use this to make correct spine on quite a few of my arrows.Also As far as drying wood goes.Most wood will eventually settle down to the revelant moisture of the location it is in.Not trying to be a smart ass but I have learnt a few things having done this for 50 years.By the way I still learn new things with each batch of arrows I make.I also found a lot of merit in construction style of Ottoman/Turkish arrows.Lots for me to explore.The fun never ends Osr

Im learning lots on my first go around. The first is i might never buy shafts again. Surewood and Trueshaft have great products, but there is nothing like the satisfaction of doing it yourself. I finally saw a plateau in the weight per board so I figured i'd get the board down to shafts. Man it went easy. I cut a bunch into 1/2" squares. Had some culls but I think i may have got close to 3dz. Im going to let them sit for another week before I sand them down to correct spine. I'm back and forth on weather or not trying to taper the rears. All said, I'm happy with the product so far

Very good. I need to get busy and do the same.

Progress has been great. The wood dried very well and i got 41 shafts in the 75-80# range. Instead of making a bunch of 23/64” to find little high spine shafts i sanded them down to spine from 3/8”. It was way easier and im not to worried about the few (about .007”) i gained in diameter. I also hand tapered the back 6” down to 5/16”. I had to twist one up super quick and its shooting great. So into the oven they went. I have A, B , and C grades. They are way more straight than i first thought too. The arrow spinner showed good results. September is coming quick

"too.This shaft making thing has got out of hand for me as I now have over 3.000 blanks in storage."

It's reassuring to me to see that someone has gone way further beyond the limits of reason than myself. 8^)

Machino. What's with the oven thing?

My state (colorado) is covered with beetle kill lodge pole but most of what I'm seeing is twisted.

Just a little hyperbole longcruise, but in a way it so hot in my shop it feels like an oven sometimes. Don't worry about the twists. I had a little in the logs I worked with. Overall though youre chasing the growth rings and the real grain didnt hamper me. That said it was slight twist. I have some lodgepole scouted for next year. I noticed that they grew real nice in dark draws where they have to climb for light and the were pretty clear as well as tight ringed. I cut some of the fallen dead and they looked great. I thought it would be super cool as well to have the denim pine look.

I just finished cresting tonight. Im fairly happy with my patterns. Always room for improvement.

Machino, I have periodically been looking at ways to make my own shafts but have not taken the time to try. I was going to make the jig and try with a table saw or a razor. Now looking at what you have done, I may have to dive in and buy a jig and start. The thought of breaking shafts would not bother me as much as it does now having to order them.

Well, hunting season is around the corner and downed beetle kill will be available. Im going to cut some smaller diameter stuff and see what it will do.

As soon as I retire next March 2023 I am going to give a try I have been wanting to make my own wood shafts.

Machino, you can save some tape and effort by using newspaper. Tape a ring at the begining, then just fold and tape a strip of newspaper around the rest of what you want to be paint free. Faster to do and faster to remove.

(What I do now is even faster: I don't paint my arrows!)

Thats a great tip! Thanks. Ill try to get some progress pics tonight.

Got the C grades fully done. They have a fade out spray can coat for the crest. Nothing fancy, just bright enough to find in the weeds. Finished the crests on A and Bs. Gave them a few spray coats to lock the crest down, then just a few more wipe on coats.

I fletched one of the C grades up (the bland orange ones) and it shot great. Excited to get the rest of these fletched up and ready for september! I wish I would have done something a little fancier with the crest, but the are pretty enough for me. Going to give them a couple of days to really dry and harden before fletching

Almost done. Ive mounted most of my heads. The front of the shafts are a little bigger than I anticipated so ill have to touch up a little behind the head. All that said I'm pumped!. They are flying so good. Its actually more surprising then ever before how well these woodies are flying for me.

After i refinish behind the head Ill shoot the A grade big gamers and make sure everything is flying well, then sharpen. The stumpers and target B grades are flying great and my ruff and tumble grousers Ill shoot and sharpen as well. Im also going to chainsaw file three grooves on each side of the Ace heads. Its a potion I've found to work well well on small game. Hopefully Ill be posting on this thread next month with my arrows and a trophy of and sort and size! Good luck out there.

Beautiful arrows! Sounds like a lot of work but the end product looks to definitely be worth it.

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