I've read so much on here about single layer gloves/tabs, multi layer, nylon inserts, sewed over stalls with cordora, etc. My fingers don't have much feeling or sensitivity. All the release shooters don't feel the string either. Is it just a better anchor or a better release?

hawkeye -

Other than knowing the weight distribution (sometimes), the last thing I want is to "feel" the string. Feel it long enough and it's gonna hurt.

Viper out.

The definition of the term is subjective anyway. For me it means being able to simply wrap your fingers into it and actually feel it versus a glove or tab so thick it's more of a pressure then feel. Kinda like using a thinner glove/tab versus a Hill style glove with inserts which would pretty much negate any feel. I think folks look for some kind of meaning that isn't there.

I'm sure a psychologist could come up with a ten-page treatise on it, but that's my thoughts.

I like to “feel the string” as to where it is on my fingers. I had an “experience “ with using a Hill style glove that wasn’t pleasant. I at least like to know if my fingers and the string are lined up and I have “rollled” the string with my fingers.

For me it is simply/only feeling the distribution of weight across my fingers, and I can do that regardless of the thickness of whatever finger protection I am using.

Like Tony said - I really don't want to feel the string on my fingers.

Rick

I like to just be able to tell the position of the string with relation to my finger pads and joints as I take my hook. But I have no desire for any feel of the string beyond that.

I pinched a nerve in my finger several years ago. I started using alot of padding in my tab to help keep the weight off of it until it healed. It took a long time for it to heal and I just never went back to a standard thickness tab. I never noticed any difference in accuracy with the thick tab.

I prefer a glove with inserts so I don't feel the string per se'. I feel a pressure on all three fingers and want that pressure to be even...but the damage I did when cutting the inside of my middle finger on some glass years ago..and using 80# bows at the time, created the need for more protection.

It's all about what you get used to. A thick glove/tab versus a thin one can be adjusted to with about 500-1000 shots. Most guys form an opinion on how something feels after dozen shots or less.

I just prefer a thin tab over a thick one. What ever feel that means is what I like.

George is right about it being subjective. I shoot from the first pad of my fingers, for me, feeling the string is knowing I have it in control until release. When I had serious carpal tunnel symptoms I had difficulty getting clean releases.

I always liked the Hill style glove with stays in the fingers. Gave me a cleaner release on heavy bows and lighter pulling ones too. When I went to a lighter draw longbow sometimes my fingers would get hung up with a soft fingered glove, with the stays in the fingers it seemed to work with everything. Also I used my bottom finger in the 3 finger split style of glove as a trigger so to speak. I would snap that off for lack of a better term to get a good clean and fast release of the string. Also I should point out that on heavy longbows I liked a B50 string cause it was a bit softer shooting which felt better with heavy longbows. On lighter ones say 70# and under I could go either way, heavy dacron or f.f. stay safe

While the tabs I make for people has two layers, a rubber membrane of 1/32", under a layer of pebbled leather that is neither soft nor hard, I found this to be generally good for me, while most have given me feedback that they are able to feel the string just enough.

For myself, I have gone to one layer. I do not form a total hook, but rather allow the string to pull the flesh toward the tip of my index finger, with a slightly deeper amount of hook on the lower two, as I draw split finger. The cleanness of release this way is shocking to me, especially as I used to really "grab a hunk of string." This is part of what makes archery so appealing: we all arrive at the bull's eye, but yhe journey is as individual as we are.

After reading the responses I got out a HH style glove with nylon inserts. Haven't shot one for about 15 years but to my surprise I pick up a good four yards on point of aim so does that translate to speed also? My previous glove is cordovan and in good shape. Left and right was still good.

It’s hard to explain but I understand the difference for myself. I have a cheap neat glove and a American leather with the plastic inserts

I have come to prefer the thin cheap glove but I am only shooting 40-45lb bows.

Only way i know to explain it is to say I prefer to feel the string.

This is totally subjective, but I did Chrono testing with my personal bows and shooting style and I get 9 fps faster (average) when shooting my stiff insert Hill style glove.

Sunset....wow!

Hawkeye after shooting with you for the last couple decades I never knew you couldn't feel the string. Sure explains a lot. LOL!

The vast majority of people I encountered who like to feel the string were not using a proper deep hook, but had the string laying on the pads of their fingers…with all the negative consequences of that form error.

They tried to get the string to stay on a certain spot on their fingertips in the fruitless quest for a clean release.

"with all the negative consequences of that form"

Such as?

2WildBill

Plucking the string, not recruiting the back muscles as the draw arm wrist is bent inwards ( and not straight) in order to keep the finger pads on the string and the string rolling sideways off the finger pads.

I tried to shoot of the finger pads for years thinking it would give me a clean release...the deed hook does that.

This picture illustrates the outcome clearly...

I use a deep hook but I like a thin glove so i can feel the string and I do feel the string. LOL. It is not subjective. My daughter does not even use a glove. I guess she like to feel the string too. :) Jawge

Viper and Pdiddly x2

Me too Jawge. Deep hook, thin glove.

The negative consequences of a finger pad hold may be there for YOU and some others but not all people.

I shoot the same will all types of gloves, never gave it a thought.

Pdiddly2, great diagram. I found the same, deep hook gives a cleaner release and keeps the hand more relaxed.

The negative consequences of a finger pad hold are there for everyone because it’s about physiology.

You can’t keep the string on the pads without flexing the wrist and so you can’t straighten the wrist to relax the wrist and hand and have a straight arm draw to recruit the back muscles properly.

The negative consequences of a finger pad hold are there for everyone because it’s about physiology.

You can’t keep the string on the pads without flexing the wrist and so you can’t straighten the wrist to relax the wrist and hand and have a straight arm draw to recruit the back muscles properly.

Thanks for the responses.

Maybe finger pad hold works for guys with serious calouses on finger pads. What line of work would cause that?

Alternatively, maybe finger pad hold would work better for guys who are over-bowed.

Actually, only ONE finger pad is involved the way I do it...index finger. Others are in the first finger groove. And yes, my wrist/back of hand is relaxed. Very comfortable. At just 40 lbs, I am certainly not overbowed.

Yella...sounds kinda' complicated. So you're drawing with two fingers and releasing with three?

I shoot 3 under. I want just enough 'feel' so I can tell that string pressure is on my index and middle fingers. I get that with a cordovan (Bateman) tab.

I shoot thinist glove or tab I can get.

Pdiddly,

Interesting diagram, however, it doesn't take into account less fingertip to clear the string and unless I move the hand, there is no pluck. Are you stating that people with a deep hook never pluck in an attmpt to clear that entire tip of the finger? Shooting, as I do, I see a problem with a deep hook.

"All", you got any others?

First of all, those are not my diagrams...they're typical of the diagrams in all sorts of archery instruction materials illustrating the deep hook, which is where they came from.

And yes, a deep hook will eliminate string pluck as the string easily clears the fingertips because of one simple element. That element is the wrist is straight, relaxed and in line with the arm. Therefore the opening of the fingers is fluid and quick and the string clears the tips without plucking.

It SEEMS that the string would clear more easily from the tips, but it does not due to the compression of the pad and the tension on the entire hand.

That's why the deep hook is mentioned as an essential element of a good release...

Shooting off the finger pads and being able to get away with it for any length of time will depend on the poundage bow you are shooting. Shooting off of the pads puts "A LOT" of stress on the tendons of the fingers holding the weight of the bow at full draw. There have been a number of people that have strained or tore some of the finger tendons shooting that way. You will feel the pain in your forearm. If you can do it fine but you are flirting with and injury down the road. Shooting with the string in the first joint crease from the tip of your fingers is safer and will give you a better release. Look at it this way. If you are doing Bicep curls lifting weights, and you only go half way on the curl and stop and hold it you are putting undue stress on the Bicep tendons. You do it with enough weight or repeatedly you are going to end up tearing or straining the tendons in you arm. Shooting off of the pads of your fingers you are basically doing the same thing. DANNY

The Duraglove is perfect for me. It's thick enough to protect my fingers while still feeling the string and be in control.

Good explanation Linecutter…nothing to gain but pain and frustration.

As I said I shot off my fingertips when I was first learning…when I read about the deep hook and tried it that was a pivotal moment as it fixed several other form issues.

Linecutter,

"Shooting off the finger pads and being able to get away with it for any length of time will depend on the poundage bow you are shooting."

I started with 55# over thirty years ago and it hasn't hurt yet. At 73 now, I'll get back to you when it does.

Pdiddly2,

"It SEEMS that the string would clear more easily from the tips, but it does not due to the compression of the pad and the tension on the entire hand."

Not seems, but DOES for me. And I'm glad you mentioned the tension. To flip your fingertips(Therefore the opening of the fingers) out of the string path, you have to activate muscles to do so, and that is tension, and IMHO, a cause of plucking. My release is a relaxation of the hand. The use of back muscles is done because of the location of the elbow, not the fingertips.

The diagram is biased in it's reprsentation of the degree of deflection between a whole pad and half a pad. What the diagram neglects is the surface of the tab where the string actually rests, not the finger pad itself.

You tried it and couldn't, I do, but I'm glad you are satisfied with what works for you.

"The position the string should occupy across the fingers is above their first joints, but not too near their tips. On the one hand a too great grip of the string necessitates a drag or jerk (already demonstrated to be unadvisable) to free the fingers, besides giving the string more surface to glide over than is conducive to a smooth and even loose; on the other hand, an insufficient grip of the string deprives the shooter of his necessary command over it, and renders the giving way of the fingers of constant occurrence. Here again, as in so many other instances, the medium between the two extremes is the best, and, it is, therefore, recommended that the string be placed midway between the tips and first joints of the first and third fingers,"

Horace Ford

http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/HISTORY/horace-ford.CFM

Guess it's all personal preference but I don't want to feel the string. I don't need an overly thick tab but I like enough to protect my nerves in my fingers.

Here's a great five minute video by Jeff Kavanagh ( Jeffer) that explains the dynamics of a deep hook perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wF7OWQmTkU

Thanks for the link to Horace Ford and his many accomplishments...

I did find this interesting...

"After winning his eleventh consecutive Championship in 1859, Ford soon found himself off the prize lists due to a failing health and injured muscles in his drawing hand."

I think our knowledge of kinesiology and the effects of unaccustomed strains on the human body have progressed a great deal since the 1850's...

Perhaps Mr. Ford would not have been as wedded to a fingertip hold and his reported unconventional form, if he had known the consequences.

I also note that there have been countless references to the importance of the deep hook in the literature and online comments, but very few, if any, to using one's fingertips...

But to each their own, as they say...

Thanks again

For many MANY years, I shot off my finger tips, and I did so with some fairly heavy draw weights (95 to over 100 lbs at my draw).

I guess you could say, that I had it mastered, because I did very well in both the competition, and hunting arenas.

Others do what they want to do, BUT, I wish to God, I had never done it !!!!

The relaxed hand, that the deep hook offers, yields so much more of a smooth loose of the string, that there really is no comparison.

20/20 hind sight - Had I used a deep hook all those years, the joints & tendons in my string hand might not be in such bad shape as they are now, and I can say without hesitation, that I most likely would have shot even better.

Rick

You would think it has progressed Pdiddly2 but everyone else is wearing out now too. Joint replacements and crippled limbs galore on here.

11 straight and much lengthier rounds of shooting. Ford did as well as anyone is likely to.

"Joint replacements and crippled limbs galore on here."

"Others do what they want to do, BUT, I wish to God, I had never done it !!!!"

Not many shooters on here have pulled a 100# bow and I doubt a deep hook would have offset injury at the point of contact. After all, even the regretful sufferer is speculating on an effect by saying "might", and the hindsight comparison is equally subjective/opinion, despite being without hesitation.

Fact is, the deep hook places more matter between the point of contact and the final clearance of the string. The tab or glove is unaware of what is behind it at the point of string contact. Hence, the "so called bulge" of the finger tip is masked by the tab or glove, therefore, the distance/point of contact, the shooter chooses to use has merit only in the shooters ability to successfully use either point of contact.

Can we on Leatherwall live with proper being decided by the shooter? "others do what they want to do", that's fair enough Rick.

I also note that there have been countless references to the importance of the deep hook in the literature and online comments, but very few, if any, to using one's fingertips...

" This consists in placing three fingers on the string, one above the arrow, two below. The string rests midway between the last joint and the tip of the finger. "

Saxton Pope

"Perhaps the word "hook" inaccurately expresses the position of the three fingers under the string. We use it to bring attention quickly to the main thought involved. To draw a bow by pinching the end of the arrow between the thumb and finger, as children do with toy bows, is out of the question; so a more practical method is used. The fingers, however, do not extend over so far that the string falls into the creases of the first joints, but presses instead against the finger pads in front of these joints."

Adolph Shane

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