Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Bear TD’s are slow! Really

Messages posted to thread:
Boker 07-Jan-22
duvall 07-Jan-22
Wudstix 07-Jan-22
bowhunt 07-Jan-22
fdp 07-Jan-22
George D. Stout 07-Jan-22
Lowcountry 07-Jan-22
Corax_latrans 07-Jan-22
Boker 08-Jan-22
Smokey 08-Jan-22
oldgoat 08-Jan-22
Greg D 08-Jan-22
Greg D 08-Jan-22
randy_68 08-Jan-22
jimwright 08-Jan-22
jimwright 08-Jan-22
duvall 08-Jan-22
Real Buckmaster 08-Jan-22
George D. Stout 08-Jan-22
Dartwick 08-Jan-22
GLF 08-Jan-22
782GearUSMC 08-Jan-22
Tboughty 08-Jan-22
Tim Finley 08-Jan-22
SteveD 10-Jan-22
Boker 10-Jan-22
Orion 10-Jan-22
rare breed 11-Jan-22
bowhunt 11-Jan-22
cacciatore 11-Jan-22
Jeffer 11-Jan-22
Jarhead 11-Jan-22
Jarhead 11-Jan-22
SteveD 11-Jan-22
2 bears 11-Jan-22
Boker 11-Jan-22
Nemophilist 11-Jan-22
David McLendon 11-Jan-22
From: Boker
Date: 07-Jan-22

Boker's embedded Photo



Testing some arrows for upcoming 3d season.

60” Bear TD B/#1 45lb at 30” 366gr arrow. 8.13GPP 10 ring mercury string, cat whiskers , two brass nocks and 3 under.

That was the highest reading, bow probably averaged around 199fps out of 10 shots or so.

I know I know speed isn’t important and I agree somewhat still like to test my bows to get a indicator of their overall performance.

You regularly hear guys say how slow the Bear TD are, well they ain’t the fastest but sure ain’t the slowest.

Yes that’s a light arrow, for some applications and the bow is slower with my hunting arrows but it’s right in the mix with every other trad bow I have tested.

I may do a test comparing the 10 ring Mercury vs 10 ring B-55 set up exactly the same on the bow soon.

From: duvall Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-Jan-22




You are correct speed isn't everything although it does make a difference in 3d...but that 30" draw is gaining you in the neighborhood of 20fps over a 28" draw.

From: Wudstix Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 07-Jan-22




Speed is great, but quiet kills! But still speed is great!

From: bowhunt
Date: 07-Jan-22




Thats a pretty good setup for good speed with the B riser and #1 limbs.I would say 30 inches draw is about Max on those #1 limbs and longer B riser.Your milking those limbs pretty good.

I have been shooting that same setup recently with an 8 strand SBD string and I know I am getting good performance.Although I dont chronograph bows.It shoots pretty flat for me at 40 pounds with a 1916 arrow and 150 grain points.I draw around 28 inches.Totally content with the performance on this rig!

From: fdp
Date: 07-Jan-22




Using your average of 199 that would put it around 185 at 28" of draw which is about average to be honest at that arrow weight to draw weight ratio.

But it is fast enough.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 07-Jan-22




176 fps is 120 miles per hour. To me, that's pretty fast and I sure wouldn't want to be in front of it. 199 fps is 136 mph.

From: Lowcountry
Date: 07-Jan-22




You must be shooting some of those Extra Special limbs made only for Frisky!

From: Corax_latrans
Date: 07-Jan-22




And people ask me why I re-built my shot with an anchor that gives me an extra inch or so of DL….

#longdrawprivilege

Booger! :p

From: Boker
Date: 08-Jan-22




Corax

That’s funny brother.

From: Smokey
Date: 08-Jan-22




Glad you like the no.1 limbs(they are new)and yes the Bear TD’s are no slouch even compared to most of the custom bows out there.I draw 28”with recurve and am very pleased with my Bear TD’s both A’s and B’s at around 40# with D97 or Fastflight plus skinny strings and arrows 12 to 14 gpp with 15 to 20% foc shooting out to 40yrds or so…..I prefer the no.3’s on A and B risers for the heavier foc arrows.Like others have said at 30” you are opening those no.1’s up to their full potential and beyond...Enjoy my friend but keep an eye on your limbs in case they start developing light colored streaks in the glass running vertically with the limbs on the back and belly visible outside in the sun light…..

From: oldgoat
Date: 08-Jan-22




That's one of those where I'd be really curious to see how it performs with number 2 or 3 limbs and everything else equal

From: Greg D
Date: 08-Jan-22




What weight rating are your limbs to get [email protected]”? 40’s? Thanks

From: Greg D
Date: 08-Jan-22




What weight rating are your limbs to get [email protected]”? 40’s? Thanks

From: randy_68
Date: 08-Jan-22




My Bear TD are about avg in speed I would say. I had the exact same setup as you, B riser, no1 45# limbs but only draw to 28" and my arrows were 10gpp. I believe I was in the mid 170's with that. That's OK with me. I had a Bear Black Bear warf 45# tt 2.o med limbs with same arrows and it shot 185 fps. Probably should have kept it as it was quiet, fast and accurate.

From: jimwright
Date: 08-Jan-22




Concerning bow speed, for many years Blackie Schultz did a bow test in every issue of Bowhunter Magazine. The parameters were poundage drawn to 28" with 9 to 1 grains per pound arrows. 2 fps averages were recorded, one with fingers, one with a machine. The machine consistently averaged 5 fps faster than fingers. A bow was very fast if it hit 185 fps with fingers and I don't recall a bow shot with fingers recording 190 fps. Many were under 180 f.p.s. but but not by a great deal.

From: jimwright
Date: 08-Jan-22




Adding to my recent reply, the same chronograph was used in all these Bowhunter Magazine tests and judging by results sometimes posted here there is apparently such a thing as a really fast chronograph.

From: duvall Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-Jan-22




Jimwright....when I started designing bows I got my hands on every TBM I could find that had Black's reports so I could see what the top performers were doing as a goal for me to design to. Those reports along with my own testing sure opened my eyes to a great deal about what goes into bow performance (and so realize there was a lot of ridiculous claims and bad info flying around out there) lol...if I remember correctly there were only a couple bows that hit 190fps with a FF string drawn 28 with a 9gpp arrow and I think it was a border and Adcocks longbow. Most of the top ones hit 180-185. To put that into perspective that's short drawing 1/2 - 1 inch...negligible..but it's amazing how many would say those bows were slow LOL

From: Real Buckmaster
Date: 08-Jan-22




Is that with the border limbs?

From: George D. Stout
Date: 08-Jan-22




I would love to see folks worry as much about consistency in their form and accuracy from that consistency as they do how fast a bow shoots. Fact is, FPS figures can be manipulated to make them seem very fast or not so fast; also, different folks have different dynamics, even at the same draw length some will get higher or lower numbers than the others.

When you're dealing with like designs, speed is going to be close enough to not even argue about. How well you can shoot the bow, will tell you all you need to know. It's that "fit" thing again.

From: Dartwick
Date: 08-Jan-22




8.3 gpm at 30" should be fast on most any recurve.

From: GLF
Date: 08-Jan-22




Jim, George gave you the answer. " different folks have different dynamics, even at the same draw length some will get higher or lower numbers than the others"... I always drew 32" so if a bow shot under 190 I sold it. Speed may be a dirty word around here but quiet speed and arrow weight determine penetration on animals. I may have to rethink things tho now since I'm only getting 31" to 31.5" now and shooting bows in mid to high 50's instead of heavy bows. Time to break out the chronos soon. And btw chronos are very accurate if you put a lighting kit on it to remove shadows. If they weren't guns would be blowing up left n right according to how far off you guys like to think.

Personally I don't hunt with a shooting machine so I don't much care what it does.

From: 782GearUSMC
Date: 08-Jan-22




Remember when a lot of deer were harvested with bows averaging arrow speeds of 145-150 fps?

From: Tboughty
Date: 08-Jan-22




Taking a look at the trad lab's data *each* inch of draw length factors (very consistently) 7-8fps by itself. That combined with a light arrow and it's not that surprising. So around 185 at 28" with a pretty light arrow. Bump the arrow weight up to 10-11gpp and you're probably looking at high 160s.

From: Tim Finley Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-Jan-22




I got some really high fps readings (230s fps) on my crony when I shot through it indoors you need to be in the sunlight or special lights over it to be accurate .

From: SteveD Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Jan-22




From: Boker
Date: 10-Jan-22




What weight rating are your limbs to get [email protected]”? 40’s? Thanks

Yes my limbs are 40lbs ,

I wasn’t making a case for speed or that the Bear TD is a fast bow rather that it is in the park with most traditional bows

For some reason I seen a lot of ppl claiming they can throw a rock faster than the bear can shoot an arrow.

From: Orion Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Jan-22




I agree, Boker. Bear TDs shoot with most other recurves out there. I also find them very consistent and pleasant to shoot. Anymore, Bear TDs are the only recurves I own. With one or two risers and the plethora of used limbs available at reasonable prices, I can put together a bunch of different configurations for targets and hunting.

From: rare breed
Date: 11-Jan-22




My Two Cents: Back in the mid-1990s, on a dare in an archery shop, I chronoed my 50lb Bear Takedown (B Riser) with 60inch limbs. I was shooting JDA 2215 shafts, 29inches long with a 100 grain FIELD POINT, using a D97 string. (My draw length was 28 inches) Speed of three arrows shot: 203fps, 207fps, 211fps. Just the facts...

From: bowhunt
Date: 11-Jan-22




Why would they be any slower than most recurves ever made.Thier gonna be right in the ballpark with the vast majority of recurves made bottom line.Some are gonna be slower and some are gonna be slightly faster than the Bear T.D limb.A few may be faster by a descent margin.Mainly the Super recurves would fall in that category.

I have had Borders super recurve limbs built for the Bear riser.Thier really fast no doubt.They do have alot! of preload.Which I dont really like personally in a draw force curve.Thats just me.Probably a limb that is little bit more tempermental to shooter error or form breaks or possibly needing a really good precise tune with the arrow.

The Bear limb is a well balanced limb thats reasonably fast,quiet,smooth,shock free and accurate IMO from my experience.

From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jan-22




I am with George about the speed for hunting. There is also a big difference between different age and model of Bear limbs. The newer with thin tips are much faster than those with late green stripe big tips and early ff black and white tips. Then most aftermarket limbs are really fast, I know Rose Oak Archery really missed by most being super smooth and fast.

From: Jeffer
Date: 11-Jan-22




I've never worried about speed enough to go out and spend the money on a chrono, that's for sure. I mean, what's it gonna change for me? I still have to shoot the bow I have anyway regardless if it's considered "fast" or "slow" right? I'd rather hit what I'm looking at.

From: Jarhead
Date: 11-Jan-22




I'm... walking away from this one.

From: Jarhead
Date: 11-Jan-22




"Fast" is an ill-defined term.

I don't think I own a single bow that's not at or above 190 at 10 GPP at 30"... 10gpp...

Stalker ACS Wolverine Saluki Turk Saluki Ibex Bushmen Xyphose Jack Kempf Wild Cat Zipper STX … … …

BTW... I do not care what bow another man shoots. If your bow makes you happy - that's great.

From: SteveD Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jan-22




Not a speed fanatic, with that being said I 've found that the ones I 've shot and now own shoot as good with about the rest of them out there.. Might add that they shoot very quiet as well, with low stretch strings also. Very important more so than speed.

From: 2 bears
Date: 11-Jan-22




Stress the limbs to the max with long draw, & or short limbs, low weight GPP, & no stretch strings. It is good for bow sales & the repair business. >>>----> Ken

From: Boker
Date: 11-Jan-22




I agree, Boker. Bear TDs shoot with most other recurves out there. I also find them very consistent and pleasant to shoot. Anymore, Bear TDs are the only recurves I own. With one or two risers and the plethora of used limbs available at reasonable prices, I can put together a bunch of different configurations for targets and hunting

Well said and the very reasons i own 4 and shoot them exclusively. As i have said on other post bear has plenty of hang ups but i love the TD

From: Nemophilist
Date: 11-Jan-22

Nemophilist's embedded Photo



I own five Bear Kodiak Takedown and have no complaints.

From: David McLendon
Date: 11-Jan-22




I was looking at the bow tests on Tradlab recently and noticed that the Bear Grizzly that they tested was faster than the Black Widows with every arrow weight. Now is that true in all cases or was it a particularly good Grizzly? Who knows? I was there to see how the Toelke Chinook did, and it surpassed all that they had tested.





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