Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Heater Body Suit: what am I doing wrong?

Messages posted to thread:
Justin 04-Jan-22
Yellah Nocks 04-Jan-22
Yellah Nocks 04-Jan-22
shortdraw 04-Jan-22
George Vernon 04-Jan-22
Yooper-traveler 04-Jan-22
shortdraw 04-Jan-22
George D. Stout 04-Jan-22
Justin 04-Jan-22
NBK 04-Jan-22
Kanati 04-Jan-22
tecum-tha 04-Jan-22
Cedarsavage 04-Jan-22
Smokedinpa 04-Jan-22
Corax_latrans 04-Jan-22
Justin 05-Jan-22
Tim Finley 05-Jan-22
md5252 05-Jan-22
Justin 05-Jan-22
pdk25 05-Jan-22
Justin 05-Jan-22
George Vernon 05-Jan-22
tecum-tha 06-Jan-22
babysaph 06-Jan-22
Mpdh 06-Jan-22
Don 06-Jan-22
Justin 07-Jan-22
R.grider 07-Jan-22
Gary Savaloja 07-Jan-22
From: Justin
Date: 04-Jan-22




For those of you that wear a Heater Body Suit, what are you wearing underneath it? I've developed a terrible ability to stay warm on stand. When I spoke with HBS they told me to wear heavy overalls but I'm pretty sure I've tried that...

Looking for ideas. Thank you.

Justin

From: Yellah Nocks
Date: 04-Jan-22




I read their instructions maybe six years ago, but when I saw the price tag...yeesh! However, back to your question. They stated that you are supposed to wear a moderately warm layer, for, say, a cool(not cold) fall day, and allow your body to stop sweating before putting on the suit. If you have sweat remaining, you will not stay warm. You are supposed to pack the suit in with you and put it on either in the blind or up in the tree. Thats the best I can recall. I sincerely hope this helps.

From: Yellah Nocks
Date: 04-Jan-22




Oh, one more thing: polypropylene underwear top and bottom. Then a LIGHT WOOL SHIRT and pants such as jeans. Remember, sweat is your enemy in that bag.

From: shortdraw
Date: 04-Jan-22




I have had one since they came out. However I have only used it during the rifle season. I only use it when the temps are below 30. I wear polypropylene top and bottom, air force crewman bibs, Cabelas wooltamate windshear pullover and vest. I also wear a pair of Irish Setter 1400g boots with regular socks and a light wool pair over them. My HBS has the boot blankets and my feet get a little bit to warm sometimes. I walk out with the pullover and vest unzipped and take my time so i don't sweat. My stand is on a high ridge and the wind at times is strong. I will stay out from dark to dark and never get cold. As for the zipper, I have never scarred a deer unzipping it yet, jut do it slowly. This past season I unzipped it on a coyote that was 20 yards from me and he never heard it, or anything ever again afterwards. I know they are a bit expensive but to worth every penny, and as the many times I used it, it ows me nothing. As I said before, the weather here doesen't call for it in the early bow season and I don't go in the late season. I am usually tagged out by then anyhow. I do notice that after a whole day out, this is sitting the whole time not standing, the outer back side of it is wet not soaked through just on the outside my clothes are not wet at all. Must be condensation on the outside of it probably woulden't happen if standing. Hope this helps

From: George Vernon Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 04-Jan-22




Don't forget to cover your head and neck with synthetic materials that will wick but not absorb sweat. 40-50% of your heat loss is from the head and neck.

From: Yooper-traveler
Date: 04-Jan-22




Justin I wear/use one this time of year if I’m jigging on the ice (and not chasing tip ups) or predator hunting. I wear moderately heavy clothing underneath. Not the stuff I wear if I’m stand sitting late season. The big thing for me is using some disposable or recharging hand warmers inside. Your not losing 50% of your body heat through your head, it’s exposed tissue so it’s like wearing shorts. Wear a hat and gator to seal the top.

From: shortdraw
Date: 04-Jan-22




I forgot to menton I wear a wooltamate beanie, and as Yooper-traveler said I use a disposible hand warmer, one in each of the vest side pockets.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 04-Jan-22




Look for a breathable material that won't melt against your skin in the off event of a flame. It can and has happened to people and it ain't pretty. Polypropylene is plastic.

From: Justin
Date: 04-Jan-22




I wear light clothing into stand and add layers before I get into the HBS. Even though the suit is extra wide, I never feel like I have enough room once inside of it. I feel like I am missing "the insulating layer."

Justin

From: NBK
Date: 04-Jan-22




Justin, I've had mine so long I don't remember if they come in different sizes, but curious... what if any size do you have? When I zip mine up I have plenty of room inside. I pretty much follow Yooper-traveler's method. Too me the handwarmers are the key. Not uncommon to be sub-zero here late season and I'll drop one down each bootie and stuff two or more into pockets.

From: Kanati
Date: 04-Jan-22




Have mine for about 8 years. Never sweated never been cold. As far as price which always seems to come up,they are about $375. The very popular Sitka fanatic bibs and jacket is $900! I could buy 2 HBS.

From: tecum-tha Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 04-Jan-22




I have a HBS. The conceptual idea is solid. The used material in my opinion not. The biggest problem of this suit is the wind membrane. Sounds like a good idea, but actually keeps moisture in like all membranes do. Creates a moist, but warm environment inside, until you get out to take a shot or get back to the truck/camp etc.

The use of a climashield continious fiber insulation together with eliminating the wind membrane and using a real "novasuede" = 100% nylon on the inside would make this suit very warm and quiet and would allow body moisture to escape.

I only used it a couple times, because temperatures don't get too bad here generally, but had the experience described above.

I recommend getting a set of fishnet underwear next to skin, then a tightly woven shirt that does not keep any moisture, then the Wiggys liner vest or liner jacket (depending on temps) and a poly/cotton camo layer on top of that for sticker burr proof walk in and quiet performance during a shot. Feet: Wiggys lamilite socks in leather boots without goretex or other membranes. If you use pack boots, then remove the felt liner and replace with the Wiggys Sunwalker booties, Wiggys socks optional. These measures will keep sweat from becoming a liquid on your skin and this will prevent shivering/getting cold. The pack boot liners will "store" your sweat in the outer surface next to the "cold" rubber. It dries many times faster than conventional liners, if necessary without external heat in the bottom of your wiggys sleeping bag over night.

From: Cedarsavage
Date: 04-Jan-22




How cold of temps are we talking? When you get around 0 it's pretty tough to stay warm no matter what you do.

From: Smokedinpa
Date: 04-Jan-22




If you need to wear all that stuff then the HBS I’m not interested.

From: Corax_latrans
Date: 04-Jan-22




My go-to up in MN was a kid-sized 3-season down sleeping bag cinched up under my armpits. Toss a couple 1-liter bottles of hot beverage into the foot.

From: Justin
Date: 05-Jan-22




Lots of good tips here. I think I need to rethink a few things. I am really missing the insulating layer so I am going to start there.

Thanks all.

Justin

From: Tim Finley Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 05-Jan-22




It doesnt even get cold in SD thats why they call it South! Our high tommorow is going to be a windy ugly -16. Merino wool tops and bottoms look up wool-x its the best,a wool sweater and wool pants. Wear a parka with a balaclava on your head and face youll be good inside the heater suit it will keep you warm below zero.

From: md5252
Date: 05-Jan-22




Try a heated vest. They’re really good and a perfect match with the HBS

Chemical hand held warmers help too

The HBS is the last line of defense against severe cold in my opinion. After that just stay inside

From: Justin
Date: 05-Jan-22




Tim Finley, you crack me up! It did not get cold all fall honestly, and when I was a younger person I would sit in cold all day long, but older age has me whimping out!

From: pdk25
Date: 05-Jan-22




The idea that you lose 40-50 percent of your heat from the head is a myth. The head accounts for approximately 7 percent of the surface area of the body, and has only slightly increased heat loss due to increased blood flow. Estimates are around 10 percent, but that is still alot if it isn't covered/insulated.

From: Justin
Date: 05-Jan-22




I wear a wool balaclava and usually a stocking cap if really cold. My feet generally do not get cold nor do my hands or my head. Just my core. I got a Pnuma ICONX vest but so far have not been very warm.

From: George Vernon Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 05-Jan-22




Patrick brings up a good point on body heat loss. In this case, everyone is right depending on the test conditions being used to come up with the measurements. Here is a bit of background I use.

It's been a while since I read all the military studies on heat loss to help me better understand how to dress for winter hunts. I believe the original Army studies on how to keep soldiers warm in arctic weather(1950-1970)looked at folks who were wearing full arctic weather suits with and without head coverings. The study was done to figure out what type of head covering gave the best protection. I think their cold weather suits are similar in the level of protection given by the HBS. So the question the army answered is with the lower body fully protected and insulated, how much of the body heat is lost through the head and neck? Under these circumstances it was found an uncovered head and neck could account for 40-50% of a persons heat lost.

Later studies, including the often cited one from England, were done when the whole body was treated the same, like submerged in water with or without a wet suit. As common sense would say, under these conditions the heat loss was proportional to body surface area. Since the head and neck are 7-10%, so was the heat loss.

So if a person wears a HBS (mine does not have a hood), they also need to be concerned about covering the head and neck with similar levels of protection to insure the head and neck don't lose any more than their 7-10% fair share. But that is a bit difficult since we need to look for the animals being hunted and breath in a way we don't hold the water vapor inside our clothing.

I've used clothing products from the Hot Hands folks. They have neck gaithers and stocking caps with pockets for different sizes of Hot Hand warmers. They are relatively thin and lightweight so movement of head and neck is easy with thin or no layers along my cheek so anchoring at full draw is not too much of an issue.

With this kind of protection, I've found I can comfortably hunt in 0-10 degree F weather.

Hope this helps.

From: tecum-tha Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 06-Jan-22




Unfortunately, the military by a large margin is not buying good cold weather stuff. Most of their requirements make not much sense and are impossible to fulfill. The result is, that every few years they try some new stuff. What works is climashield/Lamilite as an insulating fiber. The oil field guys in Alaska use it, the search and rescue in Alaska and other states use it (Hypothermia bags etc.) and the Air Force use it as their pilot survival kit. The pilot stuff gets tested by real persons in a climate chamber. Requirement was 6 hours min. survival at -40F. Climate chamber thermometer on climate chamber two had a malfunction. Wing commander was in the malfunction chamber at -60 for 6 hours + and still alive.... Membranes are a no no, because they prevent your body moisture from escaping. The biggest problem for us bowhunters is to keep our stuff as silent as possible. That's why the layering should be made, so the insulating layers can only make a minimum amount of noise. And when you had a climashield gamrnet on you in comparison to a wool garment, the climashield wins by length with warmth and weight imho. Chemical warmers require the chemical bags or electric heated vests etc. needs batteries or charging. Without that, not really functional imho.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 06-Jan-22




my buddy use to use a sleeping bag back in the 70's. Same thing

From: Mpdh Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 06-Jan-22




Losing 40 or 50% of body heat through your head or neck is BS. Losing that much body heat would be fatal long before those percentages are reached.

If it’s stated that 40 to 50% of lost body heat, is in fact lost through the head and neck area that is easier to understand.

MP

From: Don
Date: 06-Jan-22




I used mine last Sunday in -5 actual temp. I wore my full cold weather gear underneath. Insulated bibs, hand muff, body, hand, and toe warmers. It was a lot of clothing underneath, but the suit fits right over bibs, and I was toasty warm at 5 below.

From: Justin
Date: 07-Jan-22




I'm going to devote some time to it this winter. The only thing that has ever kept me warm was my gray wolf wool. I don't have it anymore and it is not even made anymore...

I believe I am in the right ballpark by saying that I need to add at least two more layers over my merino wool layers.

You've all given me a lot of good ideas. Regarding losing a lot of heat through my head/neck area, this could be. This area requires more exploration.

Justin

From: R.grider
Date: 07-Jan-22




Try pantyhose, bustier corset top ( black) some garters and high heels. If that doesn’t work throw in a whip. Sweat is your enemy. Too many people put all their clothes on then walk to their stand. They get sweaty, and then you cant stay warm no matter what. I walk in to stand with my teeth chattering, then after climbing up sit util i need the layers. I hate insulated boots for that reason, feet sweat, then theres no fixing it. I wear uninsulated boots, and pull boot blankets on later.

From: Gary Savaloja
Date: 07-Jan-22




I second Rick Finley’s post. My opinion only but on really cold days in northern Minnesota and North Dakota, I don’t wear jeans. I carried mail in northern Minnesota for eight years, many days spending 6+ hours in -20 degrees and colder. For stand-hunting, Wool is good with good long underwear underneath, in a HBS. Some of the other suggestions good as well.





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