Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Best way to instruct

Messages posted to thread:
longbow1968 27-Dec-21
Casekiska 27-Dec-21
2 bears 27-Dec-21
Buckeye 27-Dec-21
A Tag 27-Dec-21
Therifleman 27-Dec-21
TradToTheBone 27-Dec-21
Deno 27-Dec-21
N Y Yankee 27-Dec-21
monkeyball 27-Dec-21
Deno 27-Dec-21
Jegs.mi 27-Dec-21
Gray Goose Shaft 27-Dec-21
Jegs.mi 27-Dec-21
JusPassin 27-Dec-21
A Tag 27-Dec-21
Foggy Mountain 27-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 27-Dec-21
longbow1968 27-Dec-21
limbwalker 27-Dec-21
Jeffer 28-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 28-Dec-21
A Tag 28-Dec-21
doubleeagle 28-Dec-21
longbow1968 28-Dec-21
A Tag 28-Dec-21
Foggy Mountain 28-Dec-21
Foggy Mountain 28-Dec-21
Skeets 28-Dec-21
longbow1968 28-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 28-Dec-21
Viper 28-Dec-21
Deno 29-Dec-21
Foggy Mountain 29-Dec-21
Deno 29-Dec-21
Jegs.mi 29-Dec-21
Foggy Mountain 29-Dec-21
longbow1968 29-Dec-21
A Tag 29-Dec-21
twostrings 29-Dec-21
fdp 29-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 29-Dec-21
Red Beastmaster 29-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 29-Dec-21
From: longbow1968
Date: 27-Dec-21




Hi guys, I meant to post this after Thanksgiving, but got busy. What is your preferred way to teach archery to newbies? I mean to folks who have never picked up a bow. At Thanksgiving my family asked me to bring my archery equipment to our family get-together. I grabbed two of my lowest poundage bows which unfortunately are still in the 40’s# range. I had about 4 or 5 teens (with two being lefties) that wanted to try shooting after watching me. Man, teaching something is way more complex than doing it. You instructors have my appreciation. Trying to put into words what I do without thinking was a challenge. I concentrated on alignment, grip, and arm position and had all of them occasionally hitting a block target at 15-18 yards. I had them shooting 3-under and aiming with the tip, because I thought this might be easier for them to grasp. What was amazing was that they all loved it and it got them off of their phones for a couple hours. One even wants to get some tackle. I am going to set him up, as my wife and I don’t have any kids of our own. Any way just wondering how you guys teach someone the basics?

From: Casekiska
Date: 27-Dec-21




Start off very slowly and explain it as you demonstrate it. Keep target close,...very close,...you want them to experience success right away, that'll keep them interested,...don't get too detailed right off,...just the basics,...grip,...draw,...anchor,...aim,...release,...etc,...

From: 2 bears
Date: 27-Dec-21




Patience. Very light weight bows. Start very close. Make it fun. Reactive targets help a lot, clay pigeons, balloons, crackers, plastic bottles etc. Don't forget arm guard. A bad strike on the forearm can end things. Demonstrate proper form but don't get too technical. I like using a makeshift sight pin to start. It shows them where they need to be looking. My experience teaching has been more toward younger kids. Keep it fun though for all ages. No one likes missing or pain so close, light weight, and easy to hit targets. >>>---> Ken

From: Buckeye
Date: 27-Dec-21




agree with the above advise. When I start someone new, I show them the bare essentials then step back and let them empty a quiver or two so they can get the feel for it. Then, have them improve form with one thing at a time so there's not so much too think about as they learn. Teaching someone something that is so ingrained in one who has done a long time is a challenge sometimes. good for you recruiting a youngster. most important, keep it fun! Good luck.

From: A Tag
Date: 27-Dec-21




First thing I do when coaching anybody is start with a solid foundation. I have a numbered sequence or checklist for newbies to go through before the arrow is even drawn. Example, step one your feet. A solid foundation will help your student not fall into bad habits that will hurt there accuracy as advance. There are many different techniques to shooting a bow but the one thing they all have in common is a solid foundation and a repeatable form. This way of teaching may not be as fun but the results will be much better.

From: Therifleman
Date: 27-Dec-21




All great advice above. If its fun there is a greater chance that the student will come back for more. I'm always amazed at how fast some progress.

From: TradToTheBone
Date: 27-Dec-21




I do it with lightweight matched equipment. Rubber blunts shot at a 4-5” soccer ball. The black spots on the ball allows them to focus on a spot not the entire ball. I start them at about 3-4 yards. Every time a ball is hit it moves further away for a more challenging shot. 6 arrows per round, then retrieve the arrows. I stand to the side and guide them through each shot sequence. Lots of yikes and smiles at every hit. They all seem to want to shoot much further but we keep it very close. Hopefully you’ll be the spark that ignites a life long passion.

From: Deno
Date: 27-Dec-21




First thing first....SAFETY!!!. I stress bow and arrows are not toys. I draw a line for the stance and a line that the arrow shouldn't cross on the ground. Personally, I have the arrow, once on the string, being raised from the waiste up to the target level and NEVER pointed above the head and down to the target. If it's accidently released, that is a dangerous situation.

Deno

From: N Y Yankee
Date: 27-Dec-21




I have them sit down with me and we just go over all the stuff. Parts of a bow and the arrows, the glove and armguard and how they are used. I show the different types of points that can be had and how a recurve is set up, shelf string and nock point. I explain how a bow is a spring and how the draw weight increases as you draw, how everyone is different and has a different draw length.

Outside, the first thing I tell them is to try to get comfortable in the way they stand and hold the bow. Although it is all new to them and will be a bit awkward, just do what is comfortable, as long as they are using good form. I just try to get them at a consistent anchor, solid bow arm, and smooth release. I usually shoot at 15-20 feet and I shoot along with them to show them what I mean.

I have never taught young kids yet, just older teens and adults. They usually go from awkward to hitting the target face comfortably in just 15 or 20 minutes, and are quite excited they learned something new. From that, you can work on the fine points. They most often ask "When do you want to come and shoot again?"

From: monkeyball
Date: 27-Dec-21




X2 Deno, first and foremost.......

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

From: Deno
Date: 27-Dec-21




Thanks Craig I only taught my Grandkids when they were younger...lol

From: Jegs.mi Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 27-Dec-21




Explain from right away then demonstrate. With my nine year old I try not to harp on him. If I see a error I tell him I am working on my form. Then I claim the error and explain the solution. You can't take the fun out of it. I probably shot a thousand arrows before I really considered from.

From: Gray Goose Shaft
Date: 27-Dec-21




Good advice above.

A simple guide to get started in archery is the WP Bowmen Ten Steps to Successful Archery. https://www.wpbowmen.com/wp- content/uploads/2016/06/Ten-Steps.pdf

Ten basic steps are also covered in the Complete Guide to Archery: https://www.completeguidetoarchery.com/how-to-shoot-a-bow-and-arrow- a-step-by-step-guide/

Thanks for passin the torch.

From: Jegs.mi Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 27-Dec-21




Form

From: JusPassin
Date: 27-Dec-21




Had a foreign exchange student from Korea years ago. They said they were learning archery. They had been studying for over a year and hadn't picked up a bow yet. Maybe that's why their so good.

From: A Tag
Date: 27-Dec-21




JusPassin, you are right that way there so good. Don’t underestimate kids they want to be coached.

From: Foggy Mountain
Date: 27-Dec-21




Eye dominance than string bow to show form is how you start

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 27-Dec-21




Stand about five to ten yards from target. Make a couple shots. Hand them the bow and an arrow tell them to concentrate on a spot they want to hit. Watch them and instruct while bow and arrow are in THEIR hands, not mine. Answer questions as asked, and make corrections for gross errors. Enjoy watching them shoot.

From: longbow1968
Date: 27-Dec-21




Thanks guys. You know, it made me wish there was still someone making a dual shelf bow around 25-30 lbs just for this purpose.

From: limbwalker
Date: 27-Dec-21




Good for you! Lightweight bows, three under, use the point to aim - that's the best way for beginners. I do it hundreds of times in 4-H and JOAD and Scouts. It works.

From: Jeffer
Date: 28-Dec-21




I don't get to do very much of that here. Archery, especially "traditional" barely exists here. At the bow and tackle shop where I work we may sell one trad bow a month if we're lucky. It's all crossbows (ugg!). When I do get a chance to instruct anyone it's usually someone who's buying a compound for the first time and when I'm setting it up and fitting it for them. That's when I can give them some pointers on their shooting frame and developing a shot sequence. I mean, archery is archery that way. It's all the same fundamentals. I do believe that a good coach gives out information carefully when it's needed not to over load the student with too much information at one time. Helping them to understand why something is necessary to do as opposed to just saying this is the way you do it.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 28-Dec-21




You learn to do anything by actually doing it. While being coached by someone that knows how to do something well is an definite advantage because it shortens the learning curve, most men pretty much just figure things out on their own and learn that way. Women will stop and ask for directions, men don't.

From: A Tag
Date: 28-Dec-21




Females are definitely the easiest to coach. They are a lot more likely to want to go through my entire pre draw check list to anchor. Males want to skip all the important stuff and launch arrows and can’t figure out why they fall in to shooting pit falls later. Females also want to know why each step is important and if explained to them properly they will do it every time. A lot of males will listen and blow off what they think is not important.

From: doubleeagle
Date: 28-Dec-21




Without getting to "in the weeds", a current EDGE method of instruction may work for you. E - Explain the task or action D - Demonstrate the act you just explained G - Guide the student in proper method and application E - Enable the student to take the method/action and use it for their purpose or alteration.

From: longbow1968
Date: 28-Dec-21




I will admit to being a bit casual with my approach as it was a holiday after all, but interesting to note, our 21 year old niece listened to what I said and hit the target with her first shot. A common problem among all of them was trying to draw with a broken wrist and low elbow while being too square to the target. I had to back up and explain how you actually need to draw with your shoulder and be sideways/perpendicular to the target, which helped immensely.

From: A Tag
Date: 28-Dec-21




EDGE method is perfect. Never heard that before but is explained where everybody can understand the teaching process.

From: Foggy Mountain
Date: 28-Dec-21




Longbow I can’t help but see how much bad advice is being given to you. They can’t shoot until they understand form. Not one instructor would teach as you are or as many are recommending. What do the instructors know others don’t? What works time and time again and what’s likely to crash/burn. . There’s no secret and it’s not impossible or hard but you’re making it hard thinking you can talk them into correction. That seldom works. Ask any coach. From what I was told Koreans use string bows up to 6 months. You don’t have to do that imo but demonstrating form on that string and letting them do so makes things way easier. I’ll say it again, put a bow in someone’s hands all they worry bout is hitting a target. They aren’t paying attn to how it got there and that leads to inconsistency. String bow or USA archery uses bands but same premise. Many were taught by uncle Joe or dad. Now they need arm guards, have target panic, form, grip issues, release problems, drop the bow, peek, etc etc etc. Uncle Joe was no archery instructor. Don’t follow his lead if you want different results.

From: Foggy Mountain
Date: 28-Dec-21




Juspassin just noticed your post. What were they learning on? I know the answer but it proves a point

From: Skeets
Date: 28-Dec-21




I have taught my 3 daughters, 2 grandsons, and 2 foreign exchange students (one from Germany and one from Korea) that never saw a bow before how to shoot a bow. I taught them in them same manner as John Schulz described he was taught by Howard Hill in his book "Hittin 'em Like Howard Hill". 10 yards or less from straw bales except I did put a balloon on the bales. Every one of them can shoot more relaxed with better form than me!

From: longbow1968
Date: 28-Dec-21




I think you hit on something Skeets. I brought a block target to shoot at because it was convenient. What I needed was a bigger target like bales (we spent a lot of time chasing arrows). I need a bale wall like Jeffer, ha ha.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 28-Dec-21




I find ten yards ideal. My 'mentor' started me at ten in 1994 and I still shoot ten like clockwork. I very rarely shoot past twenty because I'm way too inaccurate.

From: Viper
Date: 28-Dec-21




longbow -

Take an instructors' course, or work with a qualified instructor to learn the ropes. Or at least look at the NASP or JOAD docs on line. A lot of the information you've gotten here is good (some not so good), but they are all overviews at best.

Sorry, but I've seen way too many well intentioned people do more hard than good with new shooters. Even if everything you do is "correct", it still has to be appropriate for the person you're teaching, that gets real tricky, real fast.

BTW - in your first post, you never mentioned the word "anchor". I know (or want to believe) you taught the kids that, but you didn't mention it.

Viper out.

From: Deno
Date: 29-Dec-21




I have to remind my self NEVER to post about helping a youngster, Grandkids or not. With all due respect to the Archery Instructors Here's why:

Most Little League coaches around the US have never even played Minor League ball. They donate their time helpng kids enjoy baseball without a Professional manager analyzing their every move. A Grandfather helping his Grandkids, or anyone else, is passing on a sport. I'm sure everyone here started the same way. just flingin' arrows. Some of the seasoned and Certified Instructors on this forum need to lighten up and not be so condescending to everyone who posts about teaching someone this beautiful sport of Archery. I'm sure not one of them started without an Uncle or Father who planted the seed. I commend Longbow1968 for being able to offer some equipment. time, and tips, and hopefully planting the seed in these youngsters. Our sport grows with the likes of good people like Longbow1968

Deno

From: Foggy Mountain
Date: 29-Dec-21




Deno remember the man wanted the best way not just someone’s way right? The best way is never to just let new folks shoot than correct as they go. That’s not anything but information for strong consideration.

From: Deno
Date: 29-Dec-21




"Longbow I can’t help but see how much bad advice is being given to you. They can’t shoot until they understand form. Not one instructor would teach as you are or as many are recommending"

Mike This is one sentence that I'm talking about. Longbow is at a family gathering helping kids have some fun time. He asked for tips after the fact. Give him some credit for that.

"Not one instructor would teach as you are or as many are recommending."

Mike Condescendind towards a good man helping kis have FUn.!!!

Mike You're a good guy. Lunch on me at the Sussex diner, any time.

Deno

From: Jegs.mi Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 29-Dec-21




One of vipers points I think is very important. Information Appropriate for the student. With my son I take a soft approach. I want to build confidence and make it fun. We went stump shooting with a group of guys. A very well intended gentlemen wanted to pick apart everything he was doing. It took away his confidence and enjoyment until it was stopped. It sounds like you did a great job in the two hours you had. You also get to mentor a new shooter. You don't have to correct everything in one session. At some point if the interest remains they will dive deeper...... maybe even argue what type of arrow is better on the leather wall.

From: Foggy Mountain
Date: 29-Dec-21




Deno I understand exactly what sentence you mean. It’s simple fact though. Look military instructors don’t like guys “know how to shoot”. They’d rather have someone fresh. A rifle, pistol etc is prob more sensitive than a bow. How come they’d do things different or as I described? Now way to sugar coat anything. Bad advice is bad advice. If I don’t say something is that helping? Kinda silly isnt it? If someone is offended cause they don’t know what they don’t know they might take note and see if they’re mistaken. It could help something We start with a foundation, first step for all shooting, stance, than grip, etc etc. I look all day long at simple bad stances, broken T, bad grip, from afar in all sorts of scenarios but not properly taught students. it’s be so much easier to start them right. Now add they’re possibly having a good time now you try changing everything? Or is everything something someone doesn’t know? There’s no attempt at anything but helping. Helping is not ignoring bad advice. I’m sorry if some don’t see that. Understand too I’m not talking about the timeframe it was done. If it sounded that way I apologize. Wasn’t dissing your attempt longbow. . The man didn’t know that’s why he’s asking. Can’t help him if we don’t say so right?

From: longbow1968
Date: 29-Dec-21




Thanks guys for your responses. Yes we were just having fun and I did recommend putting the middle finger to the corner of the mouth for a repeatable anchor. I think probably the worst sin I committed was not anticipating that there may be a lefty in the group (there were two), and I showed up without a suitable left-hand rig. This obviously causes eye dominance, not to mention dexterity problems, but I am already checking out listings for some left-hand tackle. What I did find out, my personal bias of the way I shoot aside, is that teaching was particularly rewarding for me.

From: A Tag
Date: 29-Dec-21




I’m just gonna leave this here before this gets ugly like most things on this wall. Longbow, asking for help was the first step and shows how important this is to you to do right. There’s a lot of excellent help on here but it very hard to cover everything in a paragraph. People have covered places to gather information on starting people out. I totally disagree with just launching arrows for fun. Instilling poor form creates improper muscle memory that is installed into the subconscious mind. I think we all know how hard it is to break a bad habit, why do that to someone new. Archery is fun especially when you’re successful and not struggling breaking bad habits. I have seen 10 year olds with severe target panic and believe me that is no fun.

From: twostrings
Date: 29-Dec-21




I like giving a bow and arrows to kids and watching them. They teach me.

From: fdp
Date: 29-Dec-21




It's all about what the end goal is. I had folks at the house this past weekend as we typically do on holidays and as is typical we ended up on the range.

Some folks were ecperienced, some folks weren't. Some folks were interested in progressing beyond that day, some folks weren't. Some folks were "just flingin' arrows" and some folks weren't. Some folks wanted more detailed instruction, and some folks didn't. And that is perfectly fine when folks are here. No different then kifs/people playing catch in the yard. Some folks will execute flawlessly and with proper nechanics, some folks won't. Some folks want you to coach them, some folks don't. And I don't care as long as they are all being safe and having fun.

There isn't much more boring than a string bow and I have never talked to anybody who had their interest in archery kindled by using a string bow.

There isn't just one right way to teach anything and archery is no exception.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 29-Dec-21




Agree with Frank about more than one way to teach.

I went to a JOAD archery session decades ago, thinking about getting my son involved. How good the instruction was or how much fun the kids had beats me because I walked out after fifteen minutes of two drill instructors yelling and blowing whistles.

From: Red Beastmaster
Date: 29-Dec-21




Just the VERY BASIC stuff at first. No more than how to hold the bow and string, pull it back, look at the target, let go of the string. That's it. No more.

After you are sure they got that down then move onto anchoring, full draw, stance, etc.

Filling them up with all your vast knowledge is doomed to failure. I've seen it and felt sorry for the student.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 29-Dec-21




Yup. Simple and clear instruction is best. Overload of blah blah blah doesn't work.





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