Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Mid Layers - The Key

Messages posted to thread:
DanaC 03-Dec-21
PEARL DRUMS 03-Dec-21
Supernaut 03-Dec-21
Jim 03-Dec-21
JusPassin 03-Dec-21
wooddamon1 03-Dec-21
TimBow 03-Dec-21
PEARL DRUMS 03-Dec-21
PEARL DRUMS 03-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 03-Dec-21
Supernaut 03-Dec-21
George D. Stout 03-Dec-21
PEARL DRUMS 03-Dec-21
PEARL DRUMS 03-Dec-21
Supernaut 03-Dec-21
PEARL DRUMS 03-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 03-Dec-21
TimBow 03-Dec-21
A Tag 03-Dec-21
Boker 03-Dec-21
boatbuilder 03-Dec-21
Jon Stewart 03-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 03-Dec-21
Mpdh 03-Dec-21
Kanati 03-Dec-21
beemann 03-Dec-21
Therifleman 03-Dec-21
cut it out 03-Dec-21
cut it out 03-Dec-21
cut it out 03-Dec-21
Bob Rowlands 03-Dec-21
Papadeerhtr 03-Dec-21
Dan In MI 03-Dec-21
Pdiddly2 03-Dec-21
Bsmitty27 03-Dec-21
Yellah Nocks 04-Dec-21
PORTAGEMA3 27-Nov-22
Jon Stewart 27-Nov-22
Bassmaster 28-Nov-22
Babysaph 28-Nov-22
Will tell 28-Nov-22
From: DanaC
Date: 03-Dec-21




Other topics don't really focus on this, so... Hunting season temps here can range from 70 degrees down to colder-than-I-can-stand. (Below 15 I ain't having fun.)

I find that good 'mid' layers are the key to comfort, as long as my base and outer layers are good. I have fleece and wind-blocking fleece outer layers, and several light 'base layer' shirts. In mild weather those work well.

Then add in several mid-layer shirts. Add a shirt if it's colder. And maybe a vest. Damp? Heavy wool shirt. Then vest.

Really cold I might wear a sleeveless 'core' tee, a thermal base shirt, wool shirt, fleece or down vest, and my outer jacket. Sometimes both light and heavy base layers.

The point is, there should be room for flexibility between base and outer, and you should have an extra layer or two handy. Flexibility and versatility.

And yes, the same principle holds for pants or bibs. Light base, fleece mid-layers, outers.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 03-Dec-21




I agree, but I simplify with high quality clothing. A single base layer and a single outer layer and I'm good below 0 to 60. No more 4-5-6 layers for this guy. I have a closet full of wool that doesn't get touched anymore after 20 years of faithful service.

From: Supernaut
Date: 03-Dec-21




"The point is, there should be room for flexibility between base and outer, and you should have an extra layer or two handy. Flexibility and versatility." I couldn't agree more. I always have a small back pack with me to stash extra mid layers, gloves, neck gaiters, tossle caps etc. Hunting time for me can be hard to come by so I want to make sure I'm not leaving the woods because I'm cold and didn't have the right gear with me.

The older I get the more I appreciate all the different materials an options available in outdoor clothing. Yes, I know that a lot of the old tried and trues still work as well. Choices are nice.

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 03-Dec-21




PEARL DRUMS has it right especially about wool !

From: JusPassin
Date: 03-Dec-21




Planning on going "electric" next year and see how that works.

From: wooddamon1 Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 03-Dec-21




Merino wool base layers (1 or 2), fleece mid-layer and an insulated outer layer is good for me. With a warm hat, boots and a hand muff if needed. Rarely get cold anymore. If there's a stiff breeze I keep a rain jacket in the pack to block it, goes a long way toward keeping my core warm, usually my normal layering suffices. I used to layer fleece and wool stuff until I looked like Randy from A Christmas Story. That would always lead to sweating and then freezing within a couple hours. Love the new thinner options for layering. I do love me a big thick fleece around the campfire, though.

From: TimBow
Date: 03-Dec-21




Can you guys elaborate about fewer layers of high quality clothing? Is there...something other than wool?

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 03-Dec-21




Here are my two systems that work from 0-60. I have light/mid weight Under Armor snug fitting base layer top and bottom and over that a light/mid weight Under Armor outer layer pant and jacket that's perfect down to about 35 ish. When temps dip below 35 all the way to under 0 I have a heavy weight snug fitting Sitka under layer pant and shirt and over that a Firstlite Solitude coat and bib. No other layers are added, ever. Its light, thin, warm, quiet and incredibly comfy. I adjust my hat and gloves accordingly. My days of 4-5-6 layers and a 20 dress time are long gone.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 03-Dec-21




For the record, my light/mid UA outer layer set cost less than a single wool pull over that is very popular on here.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 03-Dec-21




Depending on how cold and how long outside, I put on my light or midweight capilene top and bottom base layer. A wool or synthetic shirt. Pants which generally is work jeans, sometimes gortex pants if it's gonna be real wet.

Then my faced Carhartt bibs, or insulated bibs, then nylon shelled puffy, and then my heavy winter jacket, which I bought one size larger to accommodate the bulky layers and puffy.Or my huge Carhart work jacket which is cotton. Not good in a snowstorm though. For headwear my balaclava. Then wool or synthetic beanie. The jackets have hoods.

I like this stuff because it is easy to put on and take off, plus affordable. Ever guy I know wears the same basic stuff. No fancy @$$ kuiu or sitka $$$$ consumer crap, you'd be a moron to wear that fancy schmancy stylin crap at work, where REAL abuse is gonna happen. Think construction worker. That about 'covers it'. lol

While I'm at it, I gotta say I've found what absolutely sucks is layering flannel shirts, which you have to be half brother to a contortionist to deal with. If you weren't damp with sweat before putting on three layers of flannel, you WILL be after getting dressed. What a freakin nightmare. I learned that the hard way.

For 11mph avg. bicycle riding in the dead of winter I wear capilene, synthetic pants and shirt, and my puffy. Nice and light and non restrictive.

From: Supernaut
Date: 03-Dec-21




Good info PEARL and thanks for sharing it my friend.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 03-Dec-21




There is no "one" solution for everyone, just what works for you and what you like. Layering has been a thing for a very long time, but some folks just do it differently. Guys survived for months in very cold weather back before the 20th century. Makes you think about what wonder garment they used.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 03-Dec-21




The best part about keeping the core toasty warm is you don't have to wear big, gaudy gloves and boots. Your extremities stay very comfy when your gurts are properly warmed up.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 03-Dec-21




I hunt farm deer a few hundred yards from my truck and I hunt way back in the northern Michigan big woods with the same two set ups. Sometimes it me, a weapon and a back pack. Sometimes its me, a weapon, a back pack and a climbing tree stand.

From: Supernaut
Date: 03-Dec-21




I agree 100% regarding keeping that core toasty warm!

George, I don't think anyone could argue that those guys (most of them) did survive out in the field before the 20th century. I'd also bet that a lot of them would've loved to have had access to the fabrics, materials and designs that we have available to us now.

Me personally, I could care less what anyone else wears. Loincloth, have at it! I just appreciate being able to discuss these new fangled options with others here who may have tried them. I buy what I want and wear what I want and that works for me.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 03-Dec-21




They survived sure, just had to get frost bitten fingers and toes amputated, like real men.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 03-Dec-21




Watch 'Nanook of the North' to see what Inuit wore in the 1920s. Nothing modern, and nothing that costs money, since they had no money. Basically peoples of the far north lived there for tens of thousands of years with almost nothing.

Kinda chilly today. Gonna go turn up the thermostat. haha

From: TimBow
Date: 03-Dec-21




"Makes you think about what wonder garment they used." Whiskey!

Thanks Pearl (and others)! I will have to check out the UA stuff. I have to have at least one wool plaid item though...

From: A Tag
Date: 03-Dec-21




George made a excellent point on layering. Everybody is going to find a different system that works for their body type. As far as mid layers it varies a little for me depending upon temperature and precipitation. I wear a Fleece shirt, synthetic or down puffy vest or jacket, or a synthetic lightweight wind blocking layer. With the competition between major hunting clothing manufacturers we have so many options today there is no reason not to have a system that works well for you with a little research.

From: Boker
Date: 03-Dec-21




Great post, layering is key in my opinion. How and with what is personal choice

I am definitely trying to move away from cotton. It surprises me how many companies are making cotton “thermals”

A famous quote said life's hard being stupid makes it harder.

I can definitely see that throughout my life.

We would freeze to death in my earlier hunting years. looking back some of it was because we were too broke to own anything of good quality but secondly and more importantly we were too dumb to know any better.

I have learned to at least try to put some thought into whatever i find myself doing now days.

From: boatbuilder
Date: 03-Dec-21




I found getting older I don't tolerate the cold as well as when I was a kid running a trapline in junk dime store clothing and found wool to be cold in the wind so I have a tote full of wool that I don't wear much any more. I to have embraced techno clothing and really enjoy my UA base layers and my bulky but extremely warn UA Revenant parka with a Milwaukee 12 volt vest underneath and a rechargeable hand warmer in my pocket. I make no apologies for my tech love because that is required for me to be out in the cold.

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 03-Dec-21




Dad use to say if you got it on you can always take it off.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 03-Dec-21




I was a boy scout in the 1960s and wore all cotton clothes. I got wet and freeze my butt and so did everyone else, but we had fun anyway. I walked over a mile to and from JR high school in winter wearing cotton. So did everyone else. Some kids had nylon jackets, and I can still remember wishing I had one of them, or at least a warmer coat. In HS I rode motorcycle, no car, in winter with a newspaper stuffed under my jean jacket. Froze my butt off too. I wore a Bell helmet with visor and that kept my head warm.

Fast forward fifty years to today. You know I still mostly wear cotton, outdoors, in winter-when it's not snowing. My favorite garment by a long shot is my REI down filled puffy. Light, breathes great, very warm. Around here the puffy is a VERY common jacket nowadays. If we had the puffy in the 60s it would have been very nice indeed.

From: Mpdh Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 03-Dec-21




Big difference between just staying warm and being warm and able to shoot my bow. At the same temp my hunting attire and ice fishing clothes are very different.

I can’t shoot my bow while wearing any kind of puffy jacket, and every one I’ve owned was noisy too.

MP

From: Kanati
Date: 03-Dec-21




Layering is key. Since owning the Heater Body Suit I have cut down my layers. I used to start wearing it in the 20’s now i wear it in the 30’s.

From: beemann Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 03-Dec-21




I had to learn the hard way what Pearl Drums just shared. I had so many layers I couldn't draw the bow. haha. Now days I adjust underwear thickness based on temp and then outer layer also. Different vests some heated and thats all. I want no more than two sets of sleeves or leggings. I have some fantastic wool but it cant hold a candle to the new wind blocker garments in high wind... Until you have spent time on the prairie in high wind you don't understand wind protection..... Sitka fanatic and first lite sanctuary are my top suits these days.. For all day sits below zero throw in a body heater bag and that covers it....

From: Therifleman
Date: 03-Dec-21




Big difference between the cotton clothes, poor boots and gloves I had back in the 60s ice fishing up north. No amount of layers of those clothes kept out the northern Ohio chill. Doubt I'll ever be that cold again with the strides they've made in wind blocking materials and techniques uch as DanaCs points on layering. And with the better materials I end up with less layers and stay warmer.

From: cut it out
Date: 03-Dec-21




I would say wear what ya want but add a quality down vest and a down sweater/coat to wear under your normal coat when it’s cold. I like the vest as it doesn’t add any arm movement or restrictions. Don’t buy the older style down ski vests that are really puffy but the more modern style ones. And it can be any color as it will be under the outer layer so any retailer of your choice will more than likely offer them as they are pretty popular these days for casual wear. They pa k down so small into there IWB pickets and toss it in your pack or haversack or whatever.

From: cut it out
Date: 03-Dec-21




Should read “They pack down so small into there own pockets”

From: cut it out
Date: 03-Dec-21




Should read “They pack down so small into there own pockets”

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 03-Dec-21




Inuit and other northern abo natives across the globe wore skins up until white man trading post brought woven clothing. Frequently see smiles on their faces in old b@w footage and photos.

Interestingly all the 'hunters' in the KUIU Sitka and spendy gear ads got on their 'I'm a bad@@@ hunter' frown. It's all ad hype. ALL of it.

From: Papadeerhtr
Date: 03-Dec-21




I used to layer, still do kinda. My son bought me an electric vest, oh what a great invention! Here in Ohio this year I e only put my outer coat Cabela's wooltimate in outfitter camo 5 times and that was because of the wind. It's so nice not to have to be all bundled up anymore.

From: Dan In MI
Date: 03-Dec-21




Have the modern layers solved the "holds smell for days" curse?

From: Pdiddly2
Date: 03-Dec-21




If I wore Carharrt or any cotton when and where and how I hunt I would perish from hypothermia. I know that because I wore Carrhart working and it is totally useless to keep you warm.

Sitka and wool…better than anything I have tried in 60 years. I know what works for extended sits and hunts that are miles from the trailhead.

From: Bsmitty27
Date: 03-Dec-21




Im low tech all the way. So I like my wool. Merino wool is hands down the best insulator there is. Blends are more durable but I live my 100% merino I like at least 2 mid layers, for my hunting around home Northern alberta. I walk over a mile in the morning/afternoon, and get heated up so I always start out a little under dressed, as Ill be working on my walk. throw my 2nd mid layer on when I get to my spot before I cool down. Guy doesnt want to start his sit sweating, so its either go real slow and monitor your temp or bring another layer. A wind break is usually necessary for my area. There is no magic, just marketing!

unless you have a electric vest. Thats magic!

Trying to stay warm and bulk free to shoot a bow in the -20c days in November can be chalenging, the only thing I have found that lets me push the limits is a down layer.

I was actually concidering a heated jacket this fall, but can't bring myself to do it. (Puke) Ill cave one of these years, and regret not doing it sooner! LOL

Stay warm and let your experience guide you!

From: Yellah Nocks
Date: 04-Dec-21




I like polypropylene underwear over which flannel shirt and jeans. Polypro socks, super thin, over which regular ragg wool. I toss on outerwear on top of that which varies. Cool weather gets a mid weight jacket. Cold weather, I pull out the bibs and heavy jacket. When its really cold I wear a watchcap over my backwards billed baseball hat. My extreme clothing furnace is a fleece waist belt worn over the flannel shirt that has two pockets for hand warmers that sit right over my kidneys. Only thing missing with the kidney belt is a sunshade and a lille drink with an umbrella innit.

From: PORTAGEMA3
Date: 27-Nov-22




Pearl is dead on. ive tried grandpas mackinaw, and lord of the rings wool hoodies with layers ended up looking like Ralphie's little brother. so i spent close to 2 grand complete ..should last till i die.

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 27-Nov-22




You can always take something off to adjust to temp. If you dont't have it you can't put it on.

From: Bassmaster
Date: 28-Nov-22




I have tried all kind of foot wear. Bunny boots worked best.

From: Babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 28-Nov-22




electric vest and heater body suit

From: Will tell
Date: 28-Nov-22

Will tell's embedded Photo



I bought this down coat that can pack in its own pocket. You’d have to use a backpack it’s a little bulky but it’s the perfect mid layer for days that get cold. I put my hunting coat overtop and it’ll keep you warm and toasty.





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