I'm constantly reading on this site how Olympic archers shoot recurves and therefore recurves are more accurate. But are they really? When you look at their bows they have stabilizers going out in every direction. Could these people shoot a simple bow without all the junk? Could they match the archers of the past? Do they shoot recurves because the recurve riser lends itself to hanging all kinds of junk from it? I have serious doubts that they could shoot well with a simple setup. Please enlighten me.

Before you judge them, try it. Shoot your bow barebow style (no sights, no stabilizers, no clicker) at a long distance and see how it goes. Of course you could shoot better with sight etc, but if you shoot at those long distances, 60 yards or more, you will find out your form and shooting process better be good. A tiny error in aiming, holding, release, pull thru etc is greatly magnified as the distance gets longer. Would an Olympic shooter be a good 3D shooter? If they had had a little time to get accustomed to the distances and equipment, I say that most would be very good 3D shooters because they have great form.

Limbwalker, John Magera, shot in the 2004 Olympics in Greece. Hopefully he will see this and respond.

But my thoughts are that in any sport there are athletes that just have a natural ability to excel. I believe that many, if not most, archers that qualify for the Olympics could probably shoot any bow you hand them well.

They are exceptional archers, the stabilizers you make fun of just add weight and balance. They use them because all competitors use them and it's been that way since I got into archery in the 1960's...and actually before that. The entire world shoots the same style bows and similar sights and stabilizers....and they shoot 70 meters. Have you ever shot 70 meters?

Take a little time to learn more about the sport; research the history of competitive archery...not just Olympic archery. There are myriad classes in both target and field archery and you compete with those who choose to use the same equipment setup as you have. If you shoot barebow, you compete against barebow. Olympic archery is all freestyle, so they all compete in that category using sights and stabilizers. But the short answer to your question is yes, they can take a bare bow and shoot damn well with it...it's called good form; good repeatable form, something we should all strive for.

Well.. They would still have that perfect Olympian shot sequence,follow through thing goin on.. So yeah, They would be just fine..:)..

You would be amazed how many Olympic archers are superb barebow archers.

One frequents this site periodically. Perhaps he will come along and answer your question.

Yes

Are Olympic archers really that good.? Hell YES!

Think about the selection process.

MP

To put it in perspective, the target is 77 yards away, the gold is 9 1/2", and the 10 ring is 4 3/4". So a hit in the 10 ring at 77 yards would scale down to 1 1/4" at 20 yards. That is a roll of masking tape hanging on the target.

I think they could shoot a simple bow without all the junk.

70 meters with the weight of your country on your shoulders and I'm not sure how many spectators possibly thousands. Yea ok go ahead give it a try.

I watched a video of Brady Ellison shooting a regular/standard old recurve. He was doing very VERY good.

They all know archery inside/out. Put any bow in their hand, and they figure it out pretty quickly.

Rick

I also know that limbwalker (John Magera) shoots a longbow very well.

Rick

“ I'm constantly reading on this site how Olympic archers shoot recurves and therefore recurves are more accurate.”

No. Recurves are/can be made to be a shade more accurate and therefore Olympic Archers shoot them.

“But are they really?”

If they weren’t, the winners would be shooting longbows.

“ I have serious doubts that they could shoot well with a simple setup. Please enlighten me.”

You’re wrong.

They might not immediately be as good as the world’s best barebow specialists, but they could certainly learn. They have all the tools an athlete needs to excel in Archery; you can add or subtract gadgets, but if you think the only thing standing between you and an Olympic medal is some gadgets? Put up or shut up.

Chances are real good that if the very best barebow shooters COULD compete & win in the Olympics, they’d be there. I don’t know, but I suspect that’s where the money is.

I think from a visual standpoint the stabilizers really detract from the look of archery. I have been to shoots where outstanding traditional shooters have shot higher scores than the freestylers shooting the same stakes. Just because they have been doing it since the 60's doesn't makes it right. In my opinion a lot went wrong in the 60's. I know people who shot field archery way back when and the sport was tremendously popular then . Field archery doesn't seem to be very popular now. Perhaps field archery and Olympic archery needs to look to the past.

Notice the rock solid steady hold / aim & the time they hold it. Yes Sir they are good. >>>----> Ken

Yes, they are good, with perfect form. You can go on you tube and search for barebow archery competition, theres plenty to watch.

So vikingbear are you asking about the ability of archers who actually do or have competed in the Olympics, or just people who shoot Olympic style equipment?

Your last post makes it difficult to determine, and they are wildly different things.

Shooting with sights on a recurve may seem like it would be easy but it is harder then you think especially at those long distances. Throw a match stick on your bow for a sight and give it a try. Even at 20 yards it can be a humbling experience.

If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Only a select few are good enough at that level. So yes, they are really that good and make it look easy with their consistent form and technique

I am saying because of the equipment they are using it is really difficult to see how good an archer they really are . If they can do it without the bubble floats and stabilizers why do it. I mean I can shoot a lot of deer with an AK47. Does that mean I'm a good shot. To say because they have rock steady hold really says nothing. Shoot archery equipment with out the do dads and shoot well and I know you are a good archer. Otherwise I am led to believe you are relying on crutches to shoot good scores.

True dat, Candy!

There was a reason that I quickly removed the sights from my first compound, 35 years ago.

But I’m also thinking to put one onto one of my recurves, just to see what I can do from out to 80 yards.

And I do wish there were more going on with NFAA these days. Seems like a solid concept.

“ If they can do it without the bubble floats and stabilizers why do it. ”

Ummmm…. So they can WIN.

Feel free to try out for the team.

I met Rod White years ago, after he won gold at the Atlanta. Yeah he can shoot.

I shot Olympic style archery a few years before an injury at work puy an end to it. Its not as easy as you think. And I hunted with and shot recurves for decades before getting into it. Actually it's quite difficult.And 70 meters is a LONG ways. You have to execute perfectly! It actually improved my barebow shooting!

Most folks can't shoot that well with a scope sighted rifle----OFF HAND

“I am saying because of the equipment they are using it is really difficult to see how good an archer they really are“

Did you ever thought that YOU don’t have enough knowledge to understand what a good shooter looks like? Walk a mile in their shoes before questioning from the height of your chair. You might find out your chin is not above the table.

If you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express you should try out for the Olympic archery team.

In my experience. A good archer can grab ANY bow and shoot well very quickly. And within short order could do very well. Because they know the fundamentals, and the fundamentals pertain to compounds and self bows. A tweak of grip and how high the hand is held in relation to the target and away he goes.

“I am saying because of the equipment they are using it is really difficult to see how good an archer they really are“

Actually, it's easier. They don't make excuses about their equipment. They just shoot until they are as close to perfect as they can get.

How many here are willing to shoot 200 arrows a day, with a coach watching? Compete at every chance, whether field, indoor, 3D, whatever? (Year round.) Tune their bow and arrows to the nth degree?

Wasn't long ago Olympian Brady Ellison cleaned a 900 Vegas course indoors, with an Oly recurve. Every other 900 shooter used wheels.

I tell new instinctive archers that I introduce to the sport that it is all about form, if your form is perfect you will never miss.

I can watch an Olympic archer turn loose an arrow and most of the time I can tell if they made a good shot or not before I see the arrow impact by how smooth their form is on the release.

I would imagine most Olympic archers could shoot very well with a barebow, they have the form down.

I have seen several good compound shooters convert to recurves quickly, due to their shooting form and discipline. \

A few years ago I was shooting 3-d courses regularly with a mixed group of wheel and stick shooters. One of the wheel shooters became interested in shooting a recurve. Later on he and I went to Ben and Linda's Hummingbird bow shop. We each bought a recurve. About two weeks later he brought it over to my place to shoot. Much to my dismay, he cleaned my clock. I have often said since then that good compound shooters make good recurve shooters. I have seen that numerous times.

The comment referring to scoped rifle, off hand, reminds me of a curious thought I have from time to time. Take a NFAA one spot and ten shooters. 5 shoot our style bare bow at 20 yards vs 5 who shoot off hand iron sight rifle at 100, or even 50 yards. Also, no Olympic level shooters. Just good 'ol boys who once shot a humble bee at ___ yards.

Guys -

Sometimes you just have to stop feeding the trolls.

Viper out.

Viper, yes....so true. Some of these guys defy logic anyway, and if not trolling, they are likely trying to justify their mediocre shooting by attempting to put others style's down.

Right on, Viper.

It's rarely mentioned but Will Thompson was also a multiple Olympic medalist.

“ It's rarely mentioned but Will Thompson was also a multiple Olympic medalist.”

Yeah, but if he won any medals in archery, he wouldahaddadiddit with a gadget- free longbow. So there you go. OP was spot on after all!

ROFLMAO

Also: “ I have seen several good compound shooters convert to recurves quickly, due to their shooting form and discipline.”

True Dat.

Two guys at my club have converted from compounds to single string just in the past couple of years, and they are both (IMO) much better shots than the “average” shooter we see turning up at our annual “Trad Shoot“. Yes, they definitely get after it and shoot more frequently than most at longer distances than the overwhelming majority. But it didn’t take them 10 years of Stickbow shooting to get there.

Form. Discipline.

All the gadgets and geegaws can refine the outcome, but if an archer has form, discipline, and above average hand-eye coordination, he’s going to be good no matter what you put in his hands.

Starting in 1972 I qualified for three Olympic trials. We shot up to ninety meters then. I never made a team but did represent the U.S. in other ventures. Was a college All American twice. Held a world indoor record for a time. I am a what some call a hard core traditional shooter now but still hunted that way even when I was trying to make a Olympic team. I know what it takes to be a good shot, I also know what it takes to be a good Olympic style archer. They are two entirely different styles of shooting. I have personally known a number of the greats from the past that were Olympic champions , Darrell Pace and John Williams come to mind first. Both could then and still today shoot any form of archery you wanted to try in a world class manner, this includes what we call traditional. Their skill sets , work ethics, form and dedication to shooting a bow were far greater than most. I am quite sure the same applies to our own Limbwalker as well as other archers who compete at Olympic levels. If you dont think these guys are good without all the bells and whistles then you are an idiot, they are what they are not because of their equipment choice but by the amount of hard work they put into the sport to become the best. Yes , they are on the whole the best archers in the world bar none. Darryl.

You got to love the internet. "LOL"

As to Will Thompson, he was never in a Olympics, he was a National Archery Association, national champion and not Olympic champion, That honor for an American fell to John Williams in 1972 when archery was re introduced into the Olympics. Field archery did not lose popularity due to the stabilizers coming into use, the NFAA. had many other problems for sure but that was not one of them that caused them to lose popularity. Why do Olympic archers use them as well as sights ? Because they are allowed to and the goal in that game is to win. As to seeing a traditional archer clean the clock of a free style archer in competition I have my serious doubts. First a free style archer is one shooting a compound, release, and a scope sight. If such gets beat in competition by a traditional archer it is a fluke, a lie, or a world class traditional archer against a rank new freestyle shooter. I should not have called the originator of this post an idiot, but I am tired of people going on and on about something they have no idea about and not getting fed up to say so . So much stir the pot going on now days by fools everywhere and we sit back and let it go, no more. Darryl

some are more genetically more gifted than others-even though they both work hard at it

I'm sorta in the mediocre gene pool

“I should not have called the originator of this post an idiot”…

That’s very polite of you to acknowledge. But you weren’t the only one who was tempted, and you have more grounds to have been personally affronted than just about anyone here, because Tee Shirt.

So I’m gonna let you slide on that one. ;)

And I think I’m going to order a site for my takedown TODAY, because if that’s all that’s standing between me and Olympic gold, I’ve got to get ready for the next round of tryouts.

The op must be joking. He just asked if the best archers in the world are the best archers in the world.

I bet if I'd go out and buy a really great set of clubs I could play in the masters too. The mind set is in every sport.

Here's a photo of what Brady Ellison and two other Olympic archers shot in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GH_XxU7EYs

The catch was that they unscrewed their sights and stabilizers, and they each had 20 seconds to shoot as many arrows as they could from 30 meters. One guy only managed to get off two shots. One in the yellow at all; the rest looked like the back wall of Frisky's garage. Buncha dubs! Heheh...

"The catch was that they unscrewed their sights and stabilizers, and they each had 20 seconds to shoot as many arrows as they could from 30 meters. One guy only managed to get off two shots. One in the yellow at all; the rest looked like the back wall of Frisky's garage. Buncha dubs! Heheh... "

That's about as good as most of those here could do at 32.8 yards in 20 seconds.

I often wonder if vision plays a big role with Olympic shooters. Some people see better than others and I don't see many wearing glasses. I've heard 20/20 vision is normal. I've heard fighter pilots have better than normal vision. I wonder what these above normal vision people see that is different.

Very Interesting.

“ I wonder what these above normal vision people see that is different.”

They see what you see. Just from farther away. ;)

FWIW, Aspirinbuster has Pilot Vision in spades. It’s one of his physical gifts. I have joked before that when you toss an aspirin tablet out in front of him, he’s not shooting at the tablet. He’s shooting at the Y in the middle of the word Bayer.

“ The catch was they each had 20 seconds to shoot as many arrows as they could”

So the point is that rushing your shot sequence does terrible things to your accuracy.

Shocking.

And I don’t know if all four of the arrows in that target were shot by the same guy, but if you’re paying any attention… The vertical spread on that group is about 3 inches. It might be even more interesting to find out that out of two or even three shooters, the vertical spread is only about 3 inches. Clearly these guys had the elevation pretty well dialed, just off by a click or two.

I guess I just don’t quite understand what we think there is to be gained by putting a bench-rest rifleman on the skeet line.

OP troll fodder! Help yourself to my place at the feed bunk.

Vision is an extremely important part of target archery.

Typical fighter pilot vision is in the 20/10 range. There are some cases of individuals that have 20/8 vision. I have a friend who does.

Just as a rough example look at something 20 feet away. Then walk up 8 feet from it. That is essentially what he sees from 20 feet.

I know my iron site rifle shooting has deteriorated over the years due to vision. And Chuck Yeager attributes his success in air combat to his abnormally good vision.

An Olympic Archer recently shot against a pretty good recurve archer with a $200 wooden recurve and heavy aluminum arrows. He shot 30 on almost every end and won by a mile.

Also, a point on the vision: we have had legally blind archer win gold in the Olympics by putting his sight pin somewhere on the yellow blur.

Will Thompson was the bronze metalist in the 1904 St. Louis games however only Americans competed in that Archery event and this was at close to the nadir for target Archery in the United States. As to the original post, I will echo several of the other posters here and stated good archery is good archery and that it takes a solid repetitive shot sequence to be a good archer. You should definitely try to shoot at longer distance as it will show your errors much more efficiently than the closer shots

I have watched Brady and other top archer compete. They are dam good. Did any else notice the BPM they were showing on the top archers. We have a thing in our group on Sunday’s. When someone makes a great shot, someone Else always asked the big question. Can you do it again?

RonL

I'm another who firmly believes that good form is good form. One of the guys I shoot with was a highly competitive compound shooter with impecable form. Hadn't shot a stick bow since he was a kid. He got the bug to return to his roots, bought a $300 import longbow, and regularly spanks us on the 3d course.

Olympic archers are exceptional athletes who have the skills to shoot what ever bow they pick up and perform to a VERY high level... Form + Focus + Experience + Psychology + Natural Talent would have an Olympian out-shooting a weekend-warrior archer every time with any equipment, including a "simple setup". - my 2 cents - JW

Shooting frequently makes good form become obvious. If you don't shoot very often you'll probably struggle with consistent form.

Yes you need to be enlightened because the accessories they use on their bows have a purpose and are not “junk” as you have implied. You know little about Olympic archers and their bows.

If you can watch them shoot a world class for gold and not be impressed with their skill then I'm at a loss for words. They are awsome World class awsome.

There is some truth in the criticism. Obviously they shoot stupid bows that are designed to make it as easy as possible for them to shoot well, and give them as few issues as you possible can have.

The biggest cheat is the clicker. The clicker is basically the same deal as a mechanical release. Of course you have to have a hand release, and the releases of Olympic archers are a thing of beauty. Absolutely amazing. But there are several simultaneous things that have to happen to make a shot, and the key to getting them right is to have a process where they can be stacked, and reduced to automatic processes. The brain can't manage multiple processes, and when it tries it ends up with target panic.

What a mechanical release does is it combines form/pulling through the shot with a process whereby the release happens automatically due to the nature of a back tension release. This reduces the process to 2 thoughts, and the right approach can eliminate aiming. Archery is kinda impossible, but the mechanical release makes it work. Clickers don't make the release happen, the fingers still are holding a string, but it takes the decision part out of it, which is huge.

So if you are inclined to think that maybe compound archery, isn't really picking up the archery torch passed down through the generations... Release aids and clickers are even more fundamental cheats. Of course any time the whole field uses something it isn't an ethical issue, but the idea these are the best real archers is BS, they are using a massive crutch, and a whole lot more.

The second issue is how deep is the field for FITA. It sure isn't golf. What Limwalker did was amazing, and I have long admired his achievement and all the info he has passed on and continues to pass on at Archery Talk.

One the other hand, you don't get a lot of coaches to after school programs who then turn around and make the Olympic Basketball Team, or set a record in the marathon...

For a long time US archers had a lock. But when other countries woke up it was pretty easy to elbow in, and it is kinda expensive as a sport, so I don't know if we are really seeing a lot of the talent from places like Africa.

If you look for cross-over, the one who comes to mind in Michelle Ragsdale. She did OK in both recurve and compound. Not sure how stacked those fields are compared to women's golf. Does is show that recurve archers can dominate compound with it's large fields, or does it show that we are well below critical mass. Don't know.

If you want to see how good a 2 time olympic silver medalist is at barebow, you need to look at Jake Kaminski's channel. He has set himself the task of learning barebow. He comes at it with amazing knowledge and skill and there is stuff on there that has really changed my approach, and I think can help archers hit better, but also help archers struggling to keep at legal weight. And that said, I probably have only seen 10% of what he offers, if that.

He also seems like an extremely nice person.

https://www.youtube.com/c/JakeKaminskiArchery/videos

Another fun channel is Jimmy's where he has some really long shots, and also shoots FITA with an untricked out barebow.

On one of the videos this guy accuses the "World Champion" of I guess, just sicking his arrows in the 90 meter target. So as the saying goes, These guys are good. It is amazing to see what gets done, as well as how many 7s they shoot.

Jimmy isn't a FITA shooter that I know of, and he is not a young guy who went through the whole process including Olympic training. He proves top archers are all pretty good. But also that some wags from the FITA side of things are pretty impressed with what a regular archer without all the cheats can do.

I watched slow motion video on youtube of the best in the world, so I could study their releases. At 65, there is no way, barring a miracle from on High, that I could match CLOSE to that, and catch up. Clean, clean, clean releases. Can't catchem, but you should see my releases since I started watchin'. Even s geezer come lately can learn stuff from the 'tube, and them olympic folks.

Freestyle trad is just sights, a rest, and clicker. Thats not freestyle. Maybe thats what he meant. Cause no way did the other happen. Give any Olympian a couple days to come up with a sighting system and they'll clean your clock. Olympics dropped 90 meters when the gave up the full olympic round for a less time consuming elimimation round to save time and space in the 80's. This new way in my opinion knocks out top Olympians who have a bad end or two but could have set records had they shot a full round.

Of course all the top shots, target or trick, have good vision. However, they also have excellent muscular strength and excellent concentration. Limbwalker has the added advantage of a long draw length. I think all of these guys, with a week of practice, could shoot barebow with the better barebow shooters. They'd be right up there, with only a few practice sessions. Limbwalker has done this, but he has a hunting background.

Joe

My only point in posting that video was to underscore that theirs is a very specialized discipline with very specialized equipment. I kind of like that they were humble enough to post the results of their 30-meter experiment.

I took my old Browning Medallion out this afternoon and shot two groups of 4 arrows in 20 seconds each from that same 30-meter distance. I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here that could do the same. Just another case of different strokes for different folks; "archery" is a pretty diverse game.

If you were not calling them dubs, maybe. The fact that you posted your target at 30m says it all.

Looks to me like if Crookedstix added a sight and some stabilizers to that old Medallion, he’d be ready for the Olympics!

Maybe you have what it takes.....give it a go tryout

GLF I have never heard of free style traditional in competition as defined by the major organizations. There is OLYMPIC which is a recurve or longbow, stabalizer,sight, and elevated rest, and clicker and Freestyle as defined by the Nfaa which allows all that as well as the compound and release . Olympic style does not allow a peep sight in the string not a sight with a lens that has magnification, freestyle does allow these items. I agree with you about when they changed from the FITA round to the elimination round, have a bad end and there is little chance of recovery. FITA or the 1440 round required you to shoot at 90, 70, 50, and 30 meters with 50 and 30 meters shot at a smaller face. It proved to time consuming for TV. coverage. Everything today is at 70 meters. A full FITA round is physically demanding especially if shot in one day as you shoot a lot of arrows and walk about five miles doing it. I forgot that the NFAA had a freestyle limited division which uses a finger release but allows anything else including the compound and scope.

A clicker is like a mechanical release...Huh? All a clicker is for is to ensure each arrow is drawn exactly the same distance. At 70 meters a fraction difference can drop a low arrow... I know...i didn't use a clicker!

Olympic archers don't shoot freestyle to start with. They shoot freestyle limited with some modifications. Some archery clubs call sights rest and such freestyle in trad classes. I figured maybe that was what was meant because freestylers use a scope, release, stabilizers, and whatever else they want. No way did it happen the way it was told. Oh and at trad yardages a clicker allows a person with target panic to shoot. Nothing more. At long distance it keeps your draw length constant. Thats it period. Like a release? Have you even seen a clicker before cause you're not even in the ballpark. .

I'll go with Jon's answer...

Yes.

I'm probably the only Olympic archer here on this site, so I'll go ahead and try to answer whatever questions people have regarding this topic. Before I do though, I'll point out to those who have been members here less than 17 years that I was first and always will be a traditional archer who happened to have success with the Olympic bow.

Now I'll start here by responding to the OP's last comments -

"I am saying because of the equipment they are using it is really difficult to see how good an archer they really are . If they can do it without the bubble floats and stabilizers why do it. I mean I can shoot a lot of deer with an AK47. Does that mean I'm a good shot. To say because they have rock steady hold really says nothing. Shoot archery equipment with out the do dads and shoot well and I know you are a good archer. Otherwise I am led to believe you are relying on crutches to shoot good scores."

I can see why someone would say it can be "difficult to see how good an archer they really are." Point of clarification, Olympic bows do not allow bubbles or magnification on their sights. But yes, long stabilizers, an adjustable sight and especially the clicker are huge aids over and above what we see on our traditional bows. So you have to compare like for like - two archers shooting the same type of equipment. You can't really compare an archer shooting one type of equipment to one shooting something else.

That said, I know a lot of world class archers these days, and have trained a few myself in the past 15 years. What they all have in common is the ability to out-work, out-train and just out-think everyone else, combined with a great deal of physical talent. So those things apply well to whatever kind of bow a person chooses to shoot.

I got into shooting Olympic bows because I first tried to shoot target barebow (or what we call "recurve barebow" now in target archery) and was really struggling with a form of target panic I had developed as a teen when I hunted with a compound and pin sights, shooting fingers in the 80's. An Olympic coach saw me struggling to learn to aim (I shot my traditional gear in a way most here would describe as "instinctive" - without conscious aiming) and suggested I try a clicker and sight. I resisted for months but once I tried a clicker and sight, the rest was history as they say. I made the Olympic team just 9 months (and about 40k arrows) later.

I was not satisfied that I hadn't met my personal goals with the barebow recurve rig however, so I applied myself to that discipline years after the Olympics. I am still not as good with the barebow as I am the Olympic bow, but I was good enough to manage three national championship gold and one bronze medal at nationals. But I never put the time in with the barebow that I have with the Olympic rig.

Olympic and barebow and compound test three very different skill sets. They are all very different disciplines. Olympic is by far the most physically demanding. By far. It's not really even close. Barebow and Compound are the most mentally demanding.

All three require tremendous discipline and dedication if you are going to compete with the best in the world.

I don't think most folks on a site like this one realize the time world class archers put in to their craft. One has to be relentless if they are going to be competitive. It has to become a part of your life like eating and getting dressed.

I'll be happy to answer any other specific questions to the best of my ability.

Yes

My only problem was with the clicker making tp people shoot worse. I couldn't aim at an object at all. And from the first shot I could aim and hold with no problem. Stretching thru it correctly I had to learn but it put tp into remission immediately.

I have qualified for the National Senior Games in Florida in May. I am working on getting the right arrows and string set up right now. Here is a group I shot this week from 60 yds. I am shooting barebow recurve. I will say that you will find your flaws in form and shooting process when shooting at this distance.

John, congrats to you for qualifying and best of luck!

That's a really nice 12 arrow group at 60 yards.

All a little high but I am working on it.

wow. a LOT of posts removed from this thread since lunchtime. I wonder why?

Just to show how critical small things are at the long distances, look at the different color arrows. You will notice that in general the black shaft arrows with the yellow fletch hit higher than the white Traditional Only Barebow arrows. How much difference do you think there is in the weight between these two different arrows? The difference is about 15 grains. They are the exact same shaft except I removed the white paint from the yellow fletched shafts to see how much difference it would make in where they hit the target. The difference of only 15 grains made a difference of about a foot from 60 yds!

LOL I think this site is in desperate need of an update.

It is in need of an update but that isn’t why posts were deleted. I removed some because they were not taking the discussion in a positive direction.

I am glad to see you here John offering your advice.

I agree Bowlin. Clickers take that out of it. They are a big cheat.

Thanks for the explanation Phil.

babysaph, so long as everyone is playing by the same rules - in any competition - there is no cheating.

If you choose to use different equipment, why on earth compare yourself to others? I don't get that.

Check out Jake Kaminski, long time Olympic archer that recently is taking a deep dive into barebow, won a state barebow tourney in Florida with little more than several months at practice with barebow equipment. I'd say that's a good example of Olympic archers doing well otherwise.

Jake was a new RA when I was coaching at the Olympic Training Center. Our last match at the 2012 Olympic Trials was a memorable one. He was half my age at the time. I was glad to see him take an interest in barebow. He has a good archery mind.

DON JACKSON from Lindsay Ontario was at the Munich Olympics back in the 70s..Don told me that they were in a nearby building when the massacre took place. DON shot a Black Widow recurve..Wilson Brothers..I am fortunate to own the same model, anyhow in later years when Don took up 3d shooting all the rest of us could hope for was second place..longbow or recurve. Jigger

"I will say that you will find your flaws in form and shooting process when shooting at this distance."

Limbwalker you are right. Shooting long distance will expose your form flaws. 4 years ago I was talking with Viper and that conversation gave me an idea. Why not shooting 50m at 50cm target (compound) face a 300 round? Gapping at edge of the blew using my Aerotec and MK Vera limbs #46 OTF + Yost weight and 30-50 CE Predator II came out with a 229/300. It's not barebow approved but it was the best risers I've shot.

Question for you: Why 120cm target face for barebow when for Field we have the 80cm target at same distance?

Blue

D -

There are exactly 2 shots from the 80 and 70 yard stakes on the 80cm target in field. With FITA, your looking at 72. I think that's why ;^).

At 60 yards and 70M I'll use either the 80 cm or 122c cm FITA target or just the centers, whatever the club has hanging at the time.

We also have a variation on the American/900 round starting at 50 yards and using the 80 cm. It's all good.

Viper out.

Lol, JR uses a clicker. He's just doing what he does best. Lol

Thanks for answering Viper. Here I shoot 40-45-50 at 80cm face.

"Question for you: Why 120cm target face for barebow when for Field we have the 80cm target at same distance?"

Draven, you don't know this but you happened to ask exactly the right person this question.

Why do I say that? Because in 2014, Denise Parker - then CEO of USArchery - asked me to head the barebow committee for the purpose of establishing a outdoor competition single distance for barebow. The plan was for USArchery to introduce barebow as a separate discipline in the 2015 US Outdoor Nationals event, but since the advent of single distance formats, barebow had not yet been addressed (as it was not a distinct discipline for Outdoor Nationals before then).

So I went to work with the best barebow minds of the time - Jim and Liz Coombe, Tom Barker, Alan Eagleton and others. What we came up with was the 122 cm face at 60 meters, and that is what we shot at the 2015 US Outdoor Nationals and US Open for both the men's and womens barebow events.

Our reasoning was - as you mention - that in field events (where barebow was recognized by both World Archery and USArchery), we shot an 80cm face at 50 meters. So a 122 cm face at 60 meters shouldn't be that big of a problem. We also thought it would help the event organizers as they could put barebow archers and masters recurve archers on the same bales if they needed to.

I happened to win that year at 60 meters both the Outdoor Nationals and US Open events, with my own student Ryland Hartman finishing 2nd and John Demmer (you might have heard of him) finishing 3rd. I also won the clout event that year, shooting barebow, against both barebow and recurve (with sights) archers.

Following 2015, there was enough angst from the barebow community and concern from the organizers about the number of arrows that didn't find the 60 meter bales, that they reconsidered the distance. I believe there was input too from other nations who wanted to see a common outdoor barebow format for target events.

So in 2016 and since, the format was changed to 50 meters on a 122 cm face. This was not my decision and I didn't support it at the time but after seeing enough barebow shooters at 50 meters, I do support this change.

One benefit of 122's at 50 meters for barebow is that it produces scores that are similar to those shot by recurve archers at 70 meters. Familiar scores, so to speak. So a 330 is world class for a recurve archer at 70 meters, and 325-330 is world class for a barebow archer at 50 meters.

Anyway, that's how it all came to be.

John

Thank you. It’s interesting to see that lately - like 2 years ago - the barebow shooters are going for Olympic Recurve risers in 50m competitions. Hoyt mostly - I think the sponsors are starting to get their fingers wet here.

You would be correct about that.

I prefer to shoot risers made by companies who have always supported barebow as a legitimate discipline.

Companies like BEST and Spigarelli and Bernardini and Gillo. In 2015, I was shooting a 27" Gillo G1 and have since added a 27" GT riser. Gillo has done more to promote barebow target competition than any other manufacturer in the past 10 years.

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