Was watching YOUTUBE, came across this video. Cool hunt in KY where the Dad said there was no weight restriction. Little boy gets lucky and hits artery below spine, deer goes less than 50 yards. Last year the Dad said his bow was drawing 18#, same result, buck tagged. Before anyone goes off about this, please consider, how cool is this? A dad and whole family hunting together, passing on the sport we love. Yes, you can point out concerns, that being said, how can you argue the results?

I can argue. He got lucky. You wouldn't have seen it if he wounded it. And I wonder if he has. But it doesn't matter anymore. It's all about success, with whatever shortcut is available.

My nine year old is chomping at the bit. He shoots a 35 lb. Hybrid longbow, but with a 22" draw is not getting it's potential yet. Possibly next year for deer. We are trying for turkey now. I think it is great they will have those memories together.

Its and "is what it is."

Its great that kid killed a deer. We probably wouldnt hear about it if he wounded it though.

If we only accepted the perfect opportunities in life - nothing would ever happen.

Some people can't just be open minded. The Dad in this situation does not seem irresponsible to me. I think it is hard for some hunters to accept the fact that this kid has killed two deer in two years and quite possibly has not wounded any deer. I personally know two women that killed deer, nice deer with 28# bows. One a recurve, the other a compound,. Neither wounded deer. It's about knowing your abilities and your equipment and staying within your comfort zone. Could any of these hunters wound a deer? Of course, but so do hunters every year with high powered rifles. The women I knew were hunters, they waited for high percentage shots, and killed some deer I can only dream of killing.

Yes, in KY there are no weight restrictions. Personally I think weight restrictions make no sense, but minimum kinetic momentum numbers make sense. None of these are easy to check in the field but the noted weight of a bow can easily be checked. In IN it is 35# for deer. And I am sure even if you don't draw 28" and lets say you have 30# on your fingers, you will do ok if you keep it close, say under 15 yards and your arrow is heavy enough. OP did not state if longbow, recurve or compound, but of course it makes a difference.

My father wouldn’t take me deer hunting until I was 12. I missed a doe with my 35# Ben Pearson that night. Started my obsession with bow hunting. I did the same with both my sons. I personally think it isn’t ethical to be taking kids that young bow hunting. I’m not sure a child that young can truly understand the meaning of taking an animal’s life.

ditto.

...I killed my first with a longbow and ramin shaft when I was 14...

I remember "the meaning" that I had learned from my father who gave me hell for shooting a porkypine a week earlier.

It all depends on the child’s capabilities… if he can put’em all in a softball at 10 yards… then I say he is ready to shoot deer at 10 yards….

Is that the legal draw weight minimum in Kentucky?

There is no minimum draw weight in Kentucky.

Seven years old and 20# bow. Not so cool in my book since you asked. Suppose the hit was somewhere else that was not killing and the kid watched the wounded deer run off with his arrow dangling. That could be pretty unsettling to a youngster. Sounds like dad may be pushing the envelope for whatever reason.

I suggest people view the video. Then comment. Not your average 7 year old. Hunting is definitely a bond for that family.

I wouldn't let one of my kids do it. That's all that I care about

And so many adults need scoped crossbows these days.

Have any deer ever been lost that were shot at with high poundage bows? Even a 20# bow can kill. With a sharp 2 blade broad head. This father is hunting legally with his son. I’m happy for the kid getting his 2nd deer with the bow. He’s making good memories with his dad. Instead of playing video games. Congrats to the father and son team! Way to pass it on.

I agree. I think he is too young to be in the woods. I don't want to be in the woods with em. Flame on.

I don’t see anything “cool” about this.

Just plain ridiculous.

Can't remember who said it, but this quote/paraphrase might fit. "In a country as large as the United States, you can find at least one example of anything."

The father took the time to train his son to hit where he aims. Gave up his hunting time so his son could. No doubt it is unusual. Sounds like a good Dad with a good son.

My son killed his first deer with a rifle at 7 years old. A bear at 9 years old with the same rifle. A short stocked 308 with reduced charge reloads. I can't remember exactly but he was around 11 or 12 when he killed his first deer with a recurve. He struggled with trad bows. & asked if I minded if he tried a compound I said go for it and he killed more deer than I with a bow that season.i have a hard time comprehending a 7 year old ""ethically"" hunting with a 20# bow but whome am I to judge.

Like I said "some people can't be open minded". This Dad is taking time to pass on hunting to his son. Deer need to be thinned out. It happens with cars and disease. Do you not realize 7 year-olds see dead deer hit on roads? Kids also see sick and dying deer from CWD and other diseases. Some said "not my kid", great, it's still a free country. This Dad chose to take his boy hunting.

Like I said "some people can't be open minded". This Dad is taking time to pass on hunting to his son. Deer need to be thinned out. It happens with cars and disease. Do you not realize 7 year-olds see dead deer hit on roads? Kids also see sick and dying deer from CWD and other diseases. Some said "not my kid", great, it's still a free country. This Dad chose to take his boy hunting.

A dad and his kid went hunting. The kid killed a deer. Sounds like pretty good day to me.

I doubt the kid was told he shot a bad shot with a lucky outcome. If the deer was lost, “no problem son, another will come” and the video deleted. This is cool.

It seems to me that the kid has more experience successfully killing deer with lightweight bows than 99% of Leatherwallers (including me). Sharp broadheads for the win. Kudos to him and his dad.

I found it interesting to see that people on this wall think a 18 to 20lb bow being shot by a 1st grader is humane and ethical. With a razor sharp broadheads that everybody seams so proud of on this post. What would the bottom line weight be? 15lbs? 10lbs? 5lbs? I’m not going to even get into arrow weight and draw length draw length of a 6 or 7 year old. It’s not rare for a child to be raised in a hunting family. I personally know plenty of them raising their sons and daughters to be good ethical hunters, having the upmost respect for the animals they pursue. It is rare to have a 7 year old shooting a deer on you tube with a bow. Being open minded I think this could be a case of self promotion. YouTube star power is a big thing and can be very profitable.

This kid will be taking 85yd shots with a compound by the time he’s 10…

Better ways to introduce your kid to the outdoors in my opinion but to each their own

I think there are a lot of jealous people. Jealous because a little boy shoots and kills a deer.

Jealous? For killing a deer by pure luck? Are you serious?

Nothing's changed while I was gone. Imagine that.

6 year old kills deer with 12# bow. That's cool. :^(

I've seen videos of a guy killing a bear with a blow gun. As long as its legal I got no problem with it. A 7 year old killing a deer with a 20# bow doesn't bother me at all. Good for him. I find it puzzling that some people get their panties in a wad over it.

Perhaps this is just a time when everyone needs to appease everyone's arbitrary ethics. It was Dad's call he had all the facts we don't have. How consistent is the shooter? Is there enough energy? If you are From Kentucky and don't like it see what you can do to get current law changed. Of course that would require effort. Like a young boy learning to effectively use a bow and arrow.......my money is on the kid

I don't care about the 20# bow. I believe 7 years old is way too young to be hunting deer. OP also said the kid killed a deer last year, he would have been 6 years old. Way to young, IMO.

bet he's not posting all the shots that didn't recover deer... that's just irresponsible.

"Jealous? For killing a deer by pure luck? Are you serious?"

How do you know it was pure luck? Maybe it's the green eyed monster talking?

Good job young man!! Now everyone that has lost a deer stand up an admit it. The states need to get off their Duffy and changes to bow weight laws. My 30lb supercurves are shooting faster than any custom 50lb bow I have ever owned.

"Faster"? What has that got to do with it. The faster they shoot the less hard they hit. Faster with the same weight arrows, I call BS on that if it were said.

I am not all that worried about lighter bow weights, but it is funny having hung out here for decades, that this place used to be unified in it's disdain for the fact that some compound shooters, used to shoot 80#/400 grain/ over 300 fps. Now we are down to 20#/200grain/and 100 fps or something.

It is funny that we just re-invented the compound bow benefits and tossed all the other stuff, except we now have it down to where we don't drop off to 20#, but work up the force draw curve to 20 pounds.

This is going to be a slam dunk for antis, just hope they can't read the Natal study. I think back to the guy who YT'd his spear hunt in Alberta, and he did a great job, that was the end of that.

Well than your doing something terribly wrong REAL BUCKMASTER

I'm not saying I agreed 20lbs is adequate. I'm saying the laws need to be looked at. They have been the same since eternity. Our equipment has changed. I'm in jeopardy of hunting big game I can barely pull 40lbs that our state law requires.

Yep, he was aiming for that artery. Just like the other 7 or 8 deer lost over a couple years.

I’d sure prefer to see an Old Hand shooting a very light bow vs a little kid trying it.

I just can’t get excited about putting a kid that age in a position to kill an animal that’s bigger than he is. And I REALLY cannot get behind the idea of putting a kid that age out there on YouTube. Just doesn’t sit right for me.

I agree. My points should have been another thread. I don't think us ol boys should be put out to pasture because we can no longer pull 40lbs.

was the kid shooting a recurve or longbow ?

Compound if it's the video I looked up on Youtube. There is also a video about him killing one when he was 6. Search "& year old killing deer with 20# bow".

Well heck--should be "7 year old kills deer with 20# bow".

He was shooting a compound in the video. After watching the video I am convinced that this was all one of those look at me on YouTube videos. They made the kid say all the same stuff that Michael Waddell or any other hunting show guy would say. This is all about marketing and self-promotion on you tube for Financial gain or to break into the hunting industry. The dad makes sure you know about his other video of him shooting a deer when he was 6. The deer look like a tame yard deer being fed by a feeder.

Kid is a more successful hunter and a better shot than the vast majority of the miserable weak old farts on this forum. Funny seeing guys saying that lethal weapons shouldn't be in the hands of a supervised kid at a young age. That's how they learn. By the time this kid is a legal man he will be a *good* hunter instead of just starting off. I'm jealous I didn't have similar opportunities as a youngster although my dad did teach me young.

Kid is a more successful hunter and better shot than the vast majority of weak old farts on this form. :-)))))))))))))) try again

I think I'm still a good shot.

Thoughtly sounds like he supports young hunters. In my state of MI, towns and cities hire professional hunters to cull deer herds. Large numbers of deer are killed this way. The number killed in car deer accidents is staggering, up words of 70,000 a year reported, any bodies guess as to how many are not reported. Our own DNR kills thousands of deer a year in the summer, bucks does, does with fawns, because the are concerned with the possible spread TB, CWD or some other treat to the deer herd. Farmers with crop damage can request and obtain block permits to kiil hundreds of deer, some of which gut shoot them with high power rifles so the deer will run off the field to die. I have to ask those of you that criticized this kid for HUNTING, do you live in La La Land and are just that uninformed as to what really happens to deer in the real world we live in?

I think most of us are more concerned about the well-being of the Child than the animal.

Duh.

He has a father to take care of his welfare.

Having stupid people doing stupid things it not an excuse for other stupid things deerhunter51.

I made my son wait until he could pull and shoot accurately a 45# bow (Bear Whitetail). He killed his first deer, 5 point buck, that same year at 15, clean kill, no luck was involved. I don't think he was scarred for life waiting a few years to hunt deer. 7 years old is too young and 20# is too light. Dad was irresponsible and some of you guys apparently are too.

I think this is a troll thread to stir things up that why deerhunt51 brought it back up today and defended thoughty.

Reddogge is a voice of reason. Thanks for that.

I think you should be able to read, understand and pass a hunters safety coarse. Understand, maintain and operate the weapon of choice before taking it to the woods. That was the rule in my house. I was watching some show the other day, some Dad his youngster out hunting from a blind using an ML, kid couldn't even cock the weapon.

Interesting point. Guess maybe there’s no Hunter Ed requirement down there??

For me, having to tag along for a few years as a non-hunting “apprentice” only made me want it that much more, and appreciate it more when I got my first license. It was a rite of passage.

In Texas you have to be 9 yrs. old to get your Hunter Ed. Certification.

A Tag, no not trolling just trying to understand why some men on here think it's their responsibility to parent other peoples children when no laws are being broke and I see nothing wrong with children of any age knowing were meat comes from. As far as too young, the boy has killed two bucks in two years, passed on does both years and looks to me like he is making good memories with his Dad. Bet he likes to eat venison as well.

It’s not their responsibility and nobody actually tried to educate somebody they can’t. I can understand a bad shot transformed into a lucky one for a person who knows what he did and learnt from it. What you think the 7 yo kid learnt from his shot? You glorify this, I am not. This father for me is no better than a half naked woman shooting the bow on youtube to get views and a check if she gets enough clicks.

It seems there are really 2 different issues. What is should be and what it is. According to what it is a successful hunt was completed according to the law. What It should be, I am not a fan of current law's concerning age requirements for Michigan. Under the old law 12 for a bow and 14 for a gun. I think this is very sound age brackets for hunting. However I am not willing to demean father or son. I truly wish the age requirements would go back. The waiting in itself built character. One thing the new laws have done is to enable a father to evaluate his child if the child is ready early. It is good to read everyone s thoughts. I wish the same debate was talking place at the state level.

I just don't understand how you can post this and not expect a bunch of criticism over it. Fortunately, there are some responsible parents and hunters on here.

PS And just because he is hunting in a environment without rules it doesn't make it right. Ask here all the deer hunters who will go out and kill a deer with #20 bow.

Draven... Could you send the link of the half naked woman shooting the bow? I mean, so I can understand the comparison...:)

I would like to see the video before I pass judgment. Here's a video of an 8- year-old that I would give a thumbs up to without a problem at all:

https://youtu.be/VqmQsNffiro

I dont have a problem with it as long as his dad or whoever is teaching him is doing it right. And supervising every minute. I have been taking my grand kids squirrel hunting since they were 8. My grand son shot his first deer at 9 and another one a couple weeks ago at 10. But he was shooting a .357 Marlin lever action. I managed to get it on video which was cool.. He definitely isn't ready to bowhunt yet but he is small for his age. I think he only weighs 70 lbs at 10 years old.

Parents now rush their kids to do a lot of things. He will probably end up playing video games and shooting a crossbow. Like I said I will steer clear of a 7 year old in the woods with a weapon.

in my opinion 12 and under is not mature enough to hunt big game.

i, too, believe there is a maturity factor that should be considered. A right of passage, and understanding the meaning of life and death, should be part of it.

Why is everyone who seems to be complaining over the artery hit assuming that the deer did not move at the moment of the shot. I heard somewhere they do that. I once shot a doe at 15 yards from a 15 ft high tree stand with a compound that was chronoed at over 300fps with my hunting arrows. At the shot the deer dropped 16 to 18 inches and did a 180. The heart shot went in the back of her head, clipped the spine penetrated the brain stem and the point was sticking out of her throat.

It was definite luck, but deer move.

I began shotgun hunting for deer when I was 10, I started bow hunting at 12. I started small game hunting at six with a single shot 22. I learned to shoot that 22 when I was four.

Luck happens, both good and bad. All things being equal I don't criticize it.

Yup. People say “Oh, well, MY kid can handle it…”

Little League Father Syndrome, anyone???

Deny Science at your own risk, OK, fine…. But I’ve spoken about this to Child Psychologists and a pediatrician with a (Harvard) MD and a focus on child Development, and have yet to hear an endorsement.

I’m not saying the kid is destined to be Jeffery Dahmer, but Jiminy Christmas… My oldest is 18 and I have no clue where that time went. What kind of knucklehead wants to rush through that???

Let them be KIDS!

New Rule: kids who still believe in Santa are too young to hunt.

I don't know about everyone else, but I was born in the country. Hunting was what kids did, it was what my father did, my grandfathers, and I'm sure it goes back farther.

Please don't apply your Harvard MD and child psychologists assumptions to people they don't know, haven't met and will never live like.

By the time I started school I had slept outdoors under the stars more than 100 times. I knew how to shoot a gun. I could skin a squirrel and rabbit. I knew how to take care of calves and cows, dogs, chickens and pigs. I knew how to cut off a chickens head and had watched my grandmother grab one by the neck and flick her wrist to kill it dozens of times (a skill that neither my grandfather or I ever mastered).

True Corax

What about the kid who shot Santa's reindeer ;).

If you spend some time in the juvenile justice world you develop a different point of view about how kids are affected by the things they are exposed to.

Only thing I can add to this debacle is.....if you can only draw a 20# compound that has letoff....you need a few years to build some strength.

Does anyone know how a 20lb. Compound would compare energy wise to a stick bow? I have been wondering since the beginning

Not sure on energy. I have been around the Diamond atomic and many other small compounds. I run a youth indoor archery League so I’m around those bows and young boys and girls at that age. There is no reason what so ever those bows at that at 16 or 18” of draw should be used for hunting at 18 to 20lbs. I’m starting to wonder how many people on here realize how little a 6 or 7 year old really is. They are 1st graders, they can’t even read there hunting license they might be able to sound out a few words on it though.

Agree fdp. I work 3 hours a week at a jail as my retirement gig. It’s unreal how some kids are raised. They know no better.. we have kids, their mom and grandparents in jail at the same time. I definitely was blessed

I'd say 20# is 20#...??

No, a compound is a game-changer, pound for pound.

A lot of kids have been subjected to a lot of inappropriate information and experiences because their parents didn’t know any better/different. That doesn’t make the doctors and scientists and psychologists the ignorant ones.

Whatever happened to wanting things better for your kids than you had it??

Corax latrans,

So explain to me how killing a deer is any different that taking that same child letting him hunt squirrel, rabbit to kill and eat or fishing to keep and eat? A life is a life! That rabbit's, squirrel's, or fish's life has just as much value in the food chain as the deer he killed. This child seems to want to do it. He is hunting with his dad from a ground blind. When he shot his first deer at the age of six he came to draw on the deer, he bumped his hat, had the sense to let down take his hat off, redrew his bow and mad an "Excellent" shot on that deer. This year's deer he rushed his shot. Where he hit the deer I have seen 4 deer killed with that shot by ADULTS. Being a child had nothing to do with the shot not being ideal shot placement. I believe with the size of this deer he got excited and rushed the shot, ADULTS do and have done the same thing. My wife's cousin has made multiple bad shots on deer he shouldn't have shot at with a bow. Thanks to him though I have become as good of a Blood Tracker as I have. Having said that, bad shots happen even in a good situations. This kid WANTS to be there, he is not being forced to hunt, his dad is not telling him what deer he can and cannot shoot. He IS telling him he is telling him he cannot shoot beyond a certain yardage (as he should). THAT is not "Little League Father Syndrome". He is not living his dream through his son. In the first video when he was six, the plan was for him to shoot a doe if it came into his range of shooting. Well it didn't work out that way, the first deer in his shooting range that gave him a good shot was a small buck, and he took the shot. The child is with his father who also hunts, it is what his family does. My son doesn't hunt. I have taken him MAYBE 6-7 times to let him see what it was about when he was younger. He showed no real interest in hunting. I would ask him if he wanted to go with me over the years but he didn't want to. If I would have forced him to come with me to hunt because I did, whether he wanted to or not, or if he did and he didn't kill a buck but a doe and I criticized him about it or didn't show enthusiasm about his accomplishment because it didn't meet my standard, THAT is "Little League Father Syndrome".

So you asked Child Psychologists and a Pediatrician with a Harvard Degree in Child Development about this and haven't gotten an endorsement. Not impressed. I worked as a Pediatric Nurse for 43 years in a rather large free standing Pediatric Hospital. Exactly what are their opinions of hunting in general? Did you ask their view on hunting, are they Pro- Hunting, Anti-Hunting or Neutral? If it is the latter two their prejudice (even Neutral) may affect their decision when asked. They don't know the child to make an endorsement or not. For them to make any such ruling/endorsement about a situation such as this, without them meeting the family and the child is unethical. DANNY

I consider "the way I had it," to have been excellent. I learned to provide and to help provide for my family, to be self sufficient, to stand up for what I believe is right, to hunt, to fish, to trap, to fix plumbing and electrical, to put on roofs, to install windows and doors, to drive a tractor, bushhog a field, care for animals, process game and livestock, and repair machinery, Then I went to college and learned about philosophy, 18th-20th century literature, astronomy, physics, creative writing, Shakespeare, film making, programming, and computer design. I've known tobacco share croppers and Nobel prize winners and they had more in common than one might think.

I am quite happy with how I was raised. I might not have been always at the time, but there's not much I would change.

Most kids in jail don't have Fathers present in their lives much less Fathers taking them hunting. Take your kids hunting, you will not be hunting for your kids. I would add fishing, camping, raising a garden etc.

"Most kids in jail don't fathers present in their lives" that's an urban myth. Most kids who commit delinquent acts don't go to jail (juvenile detention).... the first time.

Reading through this thread I'm reminded of something my father said over 50 years ago...

"Son, you can't reason a person out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves in to."

1buckurout your father was a wise man.....

Regardless of your opinions, this was a compound kill, not trad. Shouldn’t even be on this site…

Regardless of your opinions, this was a compound kill, not trad. Shouldn’t even be on this site…

Danny, you missed the point about the psychologists entirely. Around that age (7 and up) a child starts to develop emotional inteligence, starts to care about other things than himself. The subject is way more complex than you are trying to reduce it, but at the end of the day each parent is responsble for their child. I still consider this as an youtube stunt to get money from clicks.

This kid has 2 deer under his belt and is likely a life-long hunter now. But so many of you poo poo this kid and his dad. In fact, many of you poo poo dang near everything anyone else does. The whole of this group is awesome!!! But, it seems no matter what the topic is, there is always a bunch of self-righteous, snobbish responses.

It's no wonder traditional archer numbers are dwindling. Some of you act like the average guy (or kid) simply isn't worthy enough to shoot a traditional bow like yourself.

If the Dad and/or his kid read this thread - I'd bet money that they would turn away from shooting traditional. Who'd want to be a part of a group that reacts this way to someone else's success??? You talk about "what this does to a kid"... well imagine what your responses would do to the kid? You guys act like the kid and the dad should be stoned in public. Ridiculous.

You know what I read from that story - a life long love of hunting and bond was probably created, and a kid has some success that he can remember forever.

md5252 X2

Why would anybody turn away from shooting a recurve or Longbow based on a thread on a social media site?

That would be non sensual and immature.

That's as nonsensical and immature as jumping so far as to think the kid is psychologically affected now.

If a site like this is supposed to represent such a large part of "our community," then I think you're fooling yourself if you think it couldn't impact someone's thinking.

My son shot a 30# two wheeler compound in 1980 and I will assure you, it didn't have the oomph IMO to reliably kill a deer so I made him wait. The dad here is a publicity seeker trying to push something on his kid so he can sit back and receive the accolades from the internet heroes. Just take the kid bass fishing. He'd enjoy that just as much.

"How do you know it was pure luck? Maybe it's the green eyed monster talking?"

When the arrow is not going where it is supposed to go but hits an artery it's called luck in my book. You can try to convince me he was aiming for that artery, but ...

Md52. Is right. Get back to me when he kills one with a trad bow.

https://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=316026&category=88#4747538

mountaineer is 100% correct. No tolerance from many on here for anything they themselves don't do. This is a dad spending time hunting with his son. I grew up on a farm, I saw our steers and chickens and hogs butchered for our food. I was helping by age 7. This is down south, not a liberal subdivision in a collage town. Country kids know how to do things other than play video games.

It's one of those deals that goes back to individual decisions. I have raised 4 kids. 2 boys and 2 girls. All hunters that are proficient with various types of firearms and all 4 are archers and bowhunters. All 4 have helped butcher deer, rabbits, chickens, hogs, and other animals both wild and domestic.

And I would never have dreamed of letting them bowhunt at 6 years old. They all went with me or their mother to the stand, but they didn't shoot at deer or other big game. And I wouldn't change that.

And, I would tell the kid or his dad the same thing. Understanding all the time that my opinion doesn't matter to them.

As for the Leatherwall representing the "traditional" community, that is a myth. I'm guessing the majority of recurve and Longbow shooters in the country don't know or care that this 0latform even exists.

The dad made his decision based on what he thinks. Everybody here posted what they think. Some agree with the dad's decision and some don't. I'm confused about why that's a problem.

Deerhunt51, seeing is one thing. Cutting the head off chicken at 7yo is another thing. I know it since I've done it. These were other times and I wouldn't encourage any kid to do it these days. Don't imagine for one moment that you are more special than the rest. For me this is a dad monetizing his kid - you don't need to put yourself on youtube to spend quality time with your kid.

And no, Danny, it’s not some “Libtard Conspiracy”; the Pediatrician came from a family of hunters and has raised 2 Eagle Scouts; one of the Child Psychologists is a martial arts instructor whose own son had a black belt in karate at about the age of the kid in the video.

We’re talking about thoughtful, intelligent and extraordinarily well educated people who have looked at RECENT science and studied the Brain Development.

There are no absolutes with people. That’s true. I’m not predicting gloom and doom for this kid because he’s killed a couple deer.

It’s also true that no harm would come to a kid from waiting, watching and learning until an age at which he’s legally permitted to open a Facebook account before he/she begins actually doing the shooting…. But putting your kid on the internet and doing something which is considered controversial is pretty loaded with potential downside. Both for that individual child and for Hunting writ large. The PETA Karens are probably thrilled to have that kind of thing to use against us.

And FWIW… for those who say that kids need to be allowed on the trigger early so they won’t lose interest…. Anyone who isn’t interested in Hunting if Killing is not certain to be involved is not in much of a position to be an ambassador for the sport. And if you put something on YouTube to tell the world “HEY, LOOK AT ME!!”, you’d better be willing to handle that Ambassador job responsibly.

But this kid was never offered any real choice. And THAT is just Wrong.

"A Tag, no not trolling just trying to understand why some men on here think it's their responsibility to parent other peoples children"

That is a straw man, who said they wanted to parent this kid?

" when no laws are being broke"

That is not even the minimum standard, the world including the hunting world is full of ethical standards. Ethics pick up where laws leave off. If you want freedom and minimal legal interference, you better develop some ethics.

" and I see nothing wrong with children of any age knowing were meat comes from."

What does that have to do with hunting? You can get that info in many ways. Most people's meat does not come from hunting.

"As far as too young, the boy has killed two bucks in two years, passed on does both years and looks to me like he is making good memories with his Dad."

Now I think you are onto something.

"I agree. My points should have been another thread. I don't think us ol boys should be put out to pasture because we can no longer pull 40lbs."

I agree, however, be careful what you ask for. The average regulator may not understand how much less powerful a 40 pound stick is than a compound. If they ever got the message, and realized that most hunters use wheels, or x-bows at 150, who knows what direction the minimum would go to. And why should they change when they realize the 40 pound compound is even easier to shoot for the old guy, or at least that has been our story for a long time.

It could be one reason why we lost our seasons, everyone wants a special rule, so we get 30 pounds, the other guys get airbows. Can't wait.

Some very good thoughts on this today. More meat and less opinion. Putting it on YouTube does raise questions.

Bowlim, this thread was dead after everybody was insulted by Tbroughty then brought back again by deerhunt51 the next day. I think it was to stir the pot. If you support a 6 year old hunting deer with a 18lb bow more power to ya. If ya support parents promoting themselves and child on You Tube by killing deer more power to ya. I don’t support any of it. If you can’t see how scripted it was from the child talking before he shot the deer to after I don’t know what to tell ya. Kind of sounded like every show on the outdoor channel. It was all about promotion.

I hunted from a young age for rabbits n squirrels with a .410. Deer at 13. So I know some kids are able to hunt safely at young ages. We are talking abiut a 20lb bow at a very very short draw length. I would think hunting deer with 20lbs is unethical and should be criminal no matter age. I don't care if you're 7 47 or 70. Deer don't die or penetrate easier cause your too old, too young ,or too sickly to shoot a bow with a high probability of getting the job done. It's at best stupidity and is teaching the kid to think the same way. And people wonder why we got a generation that wants socialism thinking they won't have to work.

Tag, I didn't even teach my kids to hunt, it is a dying thing. They need to find their own special activity. I found all kinds of things, none of which my parents did.

Kids should stay off youtube, most other people also.

"You'll never be criticized by someone doing more than you. Only by those doing less." Denzel Washington.

deerhunter51, is it you the father of the boy?

Charles, this is your statement, "Yes" you can voice your concerns". You opened the subject up for debate.

I don’t want anybody thinking I don’t support kids learning to hunt and use archery equipment. I teach the archery portion of the Hunters Ed program in Idaho. I also run a indoor kids program through our local archery club. The program I created is based on shooting form and preparing kids to hunt. The ages of the kids are from 6 to 11. I fully support kids learning about archery and hunting. I don’t support this video or the use of 18 to 20lb bows by 6 and 7 year olds for hunting big game.

Another deerhunter51 proof positive thread about how effective light bows are. Every light weight thread..you are consistent ! Is the boy related to that Michigan woman who killed the 25 deer with a 25lb bow you posted about ?

I'm still perplexed as to why there is debate regarding a compound bow kill on a "traditional" archery site. Interesting.

Supernaut, I agree and why bitch about something that's all ready done and over with. That's like closing the proverbial gate.

Supernauts point is that the kill wasn't with a recurve or Longbow but a compound. And it's being debated on a Longbow and recurve platform.

He has a point.

If he wants to do it why post about it. Some people just love the attention. I do not do any social media. My business is my business. I don't care about you or your family vacation or who you are in a relationship. Most of these people have never accomplished anything in life and so have to post it for look at me. I am valid. Social media is ruining this country. If you want to tell someone something do it. The rest of us don't care and you are just creating a bad trail. I see young kids sitting in blinds with their dad and the dad props up the gun or crossbow and the kid pulls the trigger. Big deal. let them learn to hunt. Not shoot. Most will grow tired of it later when they are not successful and then be playing video games. I have seen it.

7 year olds shouldn't hunt big game. Period. Neither should they fly planes, drive cars or smoke pot. Just saying.....

swapbowman, the Michigan woman that shot 28 deer with a 28# Bear recurve worked in the Bear factory in Grayling. Her bow was made there for Her. Sorry if that somehow upsets you.

fdp X2

As I see it, the issue of concern isn’t whether the kid used a compound or conventional bow, it is more of a discussion of whether or not a 7 year-old is capable of understanding the implications of taking a life. I don’t think so—that is a heavy burden that shouldn’t be placed on a 7 year-old’s shoulders.

x3, surprised this thread is still up!

{{{"...I do not do any social media. My business is my business..."}}}

Hey guys, do you think we should tell Dr. J.R. that the Leatherwall is social media--or not?

:^)

Nahhh....

Wouldn’t wanna jack up his worldview ;)

Sometimes not so "social". :o)

Not what I call social media. my definition is FB, twitter, Instagram etc. But you have a point. I learn a lot here and on youtube. Again I don't care about you bragging about your family vacation etc. It is supposed to be about trad archery and bowhunting on here. Too me that is way different that those other sites.

JR we know what you mean. But we had to raz you a little. :)

I killed my first deer at age 8 with a muzzle loader. Killed another at 9 with a ML. At 10, killed my first buck with a rifle (my grandma’s 243). Haven’t had a season in 30 years that I didn’t kill a deer. First bow kill, I was 14, with a compound, up a tree, by myself. My dad taught me all of this stuff when I was younger than a lot of y’all feel is appropriate. I’ll be forever greatful that he did! It takes about 8 deer a year to feed my little family. I started my daughter “young”…she’s 13 now and is putting meat on the table too. I trust her with a bow or firearm more than most adults I’ve been around…I’ve tried to teach her everything I know, as my dad did (and continues to do) for me. I come from a long line of outdoors folks. Teach kids as much as you possibly can and enjoy the time outdoors…none of us are promised tomorrow.

I can take it. lol Want to know what I had for dinner?

It's legal, the kid's having fun spending time with his Dad, and he has certainly lost less deer than I have. I would shake the little guy's hand and congratulate him, right after I shook his Dad's hand.

https://youtu.be/boknWRVx6yg

I would shake this 6 year old's old hand too!

Another compound kill. Just great. Doesn't belong here.

What is so funny about this post is that so many don't want anyone tell them what or how to do it, but they are quick with their options to other on what they should or shouldn't do.

Reddodge, I'm under the impression that this whole post is based on a compound kill. Is that not correct?

I have not seen the original video, is it on here?

PS.. I don't care what that kid shot to do with, I'd still shake his hand.

Very cool. I wonder who told the Indians how long they should draw with the pinch grip and tiny points, and what’s enough to kill. My little boy was driving fish arrows pretty darn deep in the water with a tiny hill style longbow. I certainly wouldn’t want to get hit with it. Easy to underestimate that almost any bow will easily penetrate that lil 6” to kill a deer. Doesn’t take much.

My son killed his first deer with a gun at 7 years old. He wasn't ready with a bow at age 7. I'd have to see the youngster shoot before passing judgment. As far as even having a conversation about a compound on this forum. That's a little extreme yes it's a trad bow forum but we talk about a lot of things other than trad bows. Like what exactly does a dog have to do with Archery

What exactly does a dog have to do with archery?

I'd say about the same thing as deep sea fishing, canning, mushroom hunting, prayer requests etc. I've seen threads on all of those subjects here and would say that would be considered secondary to the main topic of this forum, "traditional" archery.

A compound bow or any other weapon that is not a "traditional" bow is in direct opposition to the main topic of this forum. I personally don't have any problem with whatever weapon anyone wants to use I just don't think they belong on this forum, plenty of other forums for them.

I'm guessing this thread was allowed to run because of the ethical debate it spurred. It's not my forum, my rules nor am I a moderator so my opinion, like yours (unless you're a moderator), doesn't matter and that's the way it be.

Maybe it was a moderator's Son? I'd still shake the kid's hand, right after I shook his Dad's. I believe many of the problems is world result from Dad's not spending time with their Son's.

Remove the (al)from the end of traditional & ya have the word "tradition" I challenge anyone to come up with a better definition of the word tradition than a father teaching his son to hunt. GET OVER IT!!!

timex, I'm not tying to debate you and I understand your position.

It was a tradition for my dad and I to rifle hunt together on the first day of buck for years and years but "tradition" or not it's the wrong weapon for this forum.

If this was a thread about a 35 year old man killing his second deer with a 40 pound compound or a crossbow......

Maybe now that the kid has killed a couple of bucks he can hold out for more mature deer with some longer G 2s.

Yeah we should buck shame everyone now for sure. Especially if they’re 7 yrs old. And we should tell him even though he obviously can outshoot a bunch of guys here on game, that he’s unethical and his dad doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Perhaps the boy should go on a trip to Africa next to hunt Cape Buffalo with his mighty 18# bow.

I guess I'm just jealous that this 7year old has that much free time to hunt.. When I was 7 , I was going to school full time and workin midnights at the plant.. Didn't have the seniority to take time off.. :)

Do yall realize your busting the balls of a 7 year old kid. I hope ya feel more like a man

Do yall realize your busting the balls of a 7 year old kid. I hope ya feel better about yourself for doing it

DMP, have you ever thought about the fact that most compound guys deer bows paired the proper arrow are capable of killing a 6000 pound African Elephant? So take a 75# compound shooting a 900 grain arrow. That is 80# of elephant per pound of bow draw weight. The boy was shooting 20# draw weight and a 280 grain arrow. I don't think that buck weighed 200#, but for this we will say he weighed 200#. So that's 10 # of deer per pound of bow draw weight. The boy in this comparison comes out way ahead. Lets look at the arrow. If you do the math the Elephant hunter is shooting only .15 grains of arrow weight per pound of elephant. The boy is shooting 1.4 grains of arrow weight per pound of deer he killed. So the boy comes out ahead again. Even if the Elephant hunter shoots a small 3000 pounder the boy still comes out better equiped then the elephant hunter. Besides we saw him kill that buck on video.

I ment to say the boy was better equiped for the game he was hunting then the elephant hunter.

Actually the youngster is caught in the middle. A son trying please is father. His father may be trying to teach him a life lesson. I would think life's lessons between father and son should be kept private, the lessons will hold more value rather than putting them on the www for a look at me moment IMO. Sign of times I guess. This thread's been a turd from the git-go, I mean really we're doing math now?

Congrats to the young man, well done.My son killed his first deer with a 25 lb. bow at 9 years old, I didn't have a problem with it then and don't now. He worked hard on his shooting and knew his limits and had been on many hunting adventures with me before so didn't go in blind as I am sure this young man did also. Pappy

deerhunt51, I posted a ridiculous post beacuse this thread is ridiculous. Firstly, the boy is shooting a compound and this does not belong on a traditional forum.

Secondly, nothing wrong with a father getting his son into hunting at the appropiate age when he understands the ramifications of his actions and the taking of a life. This thread started with with social media post where everyone who posts something is looking for attention and views. Next, we will have someone posting about their trained dog shooting a deer with a crossbow.

Nothing of value here for the traditional community. Lets move along and post something that will help the forum members even in a small way.

Agree Kevin

"So that's 10 # of deer per pound of bow draw weight."

Charles, your analysis is off again. By that metric the deer hunter with a 5 pound bow, and a 45 pound deer is better off in absolute terms over your examples. It is clear that bow effectiveness takes a dive at some point, some point before draw weight hits zero.

---------------------------

I would feel OK about some experimental low DW shooting if the "sport" were backed up by a certified PH holding an appropriate stopping rifle. Actually, that is a great role for one of those 2 shot X-bows, would be legal most places.

----------------------------

Has any modern hunter ever actually killed an elephant with a bow? They all need to be backed up by law. These days the day of the single PH is often not even the rule. There can be multiple armed guys backing up the hunter. I don't really see the point in shooting an elephant with a bow. seems a bit like being offered an opportunity to drive an amazing race track with your sports car, and deciding to do it with a pedal bicycle for the "greater challenge". Most Africa hands seem to think it is a bad joke. But they have to pay the mortgage.

DMP, "Lets move along and help the forum members even in a small way" that's one of the reasons I posted this. How many on here have stated you need a 50# bow to ethically hunt deer? I know better as I have no problems filling my tag with a 40# recurve or longbow drawn to maybe 36 or 37 pounds. There are so many more important things a hunter has to know to be successful than bow draw weight. Like knowing deer anatomy, being able to accurately place his shot. learning when to shoot at game and when not too etc. etc. This was posted to show on video that a 20# bow will kill deer. A properly placed arrow from a traditional bow of over 30# will do the same thing.

As I suspected this thread is all about the promotion of ultra light weight equipment as stated above by deerhunt51 I still wonder what some of you ultra light weight guys have for a minimum weight. I know now it’s lighter then 18lbs at 18” shot by a 6 year old because that’s been excepted by many in this thread. Is 15lbs to light or is it 10, at what weight dose it because unethical?

deerhunt51, I have no doubt that a 35# recurve or Lb will kill deer. I use a 44# LB or 43 # recurve myself. Shot placement is much more important than poundage but this thread uses an exaggerated example to make such a point.

Though I have seen the vitriol repeatedly on here, I still don't understand it. I think about all of the good shooters and hunters who have been run off and it really depresses me.

Here we have a video of the following. Boy is hunting with his father, nothing bad there. Boy passes a doe because he thinks he will see a buck, nothing bad there. Boy shoots a buck, still sounds ok to me. Boy recovers a buck with his mom, dad and sister, sound like a great family night to me.

Somehow this story gets conflated with child abuse, we are told that the kid cannot comprehend hunting because some expert says so, people complain about the tool, people complain about the video itself because they don't like the idea.

Seems to me that a little bit more shooting and hunting a a bunch less keyboard warrior- ing might make people a lot happier.

Pappy, I didn't kill my first deer at 9 (Our family didn't hunt deer until I was 10), but I had shot and cleaned squirrels and rabbits, as well as plucked chicken and ducks, cleaned fish, and helped my grandparents to can many many pounds of pork and steers we had raised. You are doing great things down in TN, and I kind of wish that I was back living in Cleveland TN rather than central Virginia.

All this thing proves is people will do anything for attention. Oh yeah, and that a bad hit with 20lbs that hits a major artery over a foot from the aiming point and 2 inches under the surface will kill a deer.

Where is the video?

You tube, 7 year-old kills second buck with a bow.

“ This was posted to show on video that a 20# bow will kill deer.” Well, not by the kid’s father. HE posted it to bring attention to himself and his son.

I would love to know what kind of mass and velocity figures were involved there.

Wouldn’t surprise me if a #20 compound or Genesis stores very close to (if not more than) the energy of a lot of Stickbows at twice the draw weight & length.

I still can’t get behind putting a 6 or 7 year-old in that position, though, and the descriptions of his hit do little to dissuade me.

"Wouldn’t surprise me if a #20 compound or Genesis stores very close to (if not more than) the energy of a lot of Stickbows at twice the draw weight & length. "

You'd lose that argument. They sometimes can't penetrate a bag target backstop used in the NASP shoots at 15 yards.

Great that he killed a deer and also it was on video. I would rather see that then hear the “made up” stories how my son at 5 killed his first big buck shooting my 30-06 at 150 yards. It isn’t shooting if daddy is holding the gun and scope on the deer and letting son pull trigger so he can brag about his sons first deer . Also as said above I have seen the guy killing bears with a blow gun.

No big deal with a compound

I assure you that a 20lb Diamond Atomic dose not perform like a stick bow twice it’s weight. These entry level compounds are just that. I have set up many of these bows for children and they are NOT big game weapons. We should at least stay on our side of the road if this needs to be continuously discussed. The side we understand the stickbow side.

Ok so not to stir the pot. And every aspect of this 20# compound kill has been beat to death already but my curiosity has me thinking. How does the 20# youth compound with modern broadhead stack up against the current day bushmens bows or the American Indians bows of the past with stone points. Some of the African documentaries iv seen their bows & arrows are are extremely primitive but their tracking skills are absolutely amazing. If they can wound it they can track it down & kill it.

Awww, let's play nice or else we'll have more "adults" having their little feelings hurt and declaring they won't come back.

I just saw an article today where a 5 year old killed one with a crossbow. Wow. They are getting younger.

So have you guys ever weighed and clocked an arrow out of a “kids” compound?

Not arguing, just wondering if anyone has DATA.

And of course it would REALLY depend on what stickbow you compare it to.

Szmania’s Supercurve… hard no.

“ Is 38# enough for moose?”

Only if it’s B&C.

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