| From: JasonDLind
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Can y’all please help me date this bow? I posted over on Tradtalk, and sent Mr. Hatfield a pm as well. I am confused by the 5 character serial number. Is the first character an I or a one? Thanks!
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| From: George D. Stout
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Looks late 90's or early 2000's to me, but no expert here.
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| From: mangonboat
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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I'm guessing its a 1991 model, 1439th one made after they restarted the sequence. I cant remember when they restarted the sequence.
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| From: mangonboat
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Or its a 2011 model, the 439th one made after the restart ;-p
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| From: Krag
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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That's the same riser material and stripe used on the Canebrakes they made for Archery Traditions in the early 90's.
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| From: deerfly
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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I like the look of that riser wood. I think I'm seeing some schafer s/t lines in there too.
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| From: fdp
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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You see Howatt lines in the Schafer.
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| From: deerfly
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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lol, fdp thats right I had it backwards...
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| From: fdp
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Paul was a big Martin/Howatt fan. Took a very good design and made it better.
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| From: tracy warren
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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No doubt that many bowyers did their best to copy Howatt models, but Paul Schafer modeled the Silvertip after the Bob Savage Bushmaster.
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| From: fdp
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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That would have been the Savage Deathmaster.
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| From: Pdiddly
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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1991 That riser layup was made from 1985-1994
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| From: JasonDLind
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Thank you Pdiddly. Do you know what woods they were using?
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| From: JasonDLind
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Thanks for fast forwarding my research everyone. Actionwood is interesting material. Should be a tough bow. I’ll report back after I’ve had a chance to get it right. I am hunting 10/20 through Thanksgiving. Hopefully I’ll post pics of hunting success with it!
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| From: JasonDLind
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Thanks for fast forwarding my research everyone. Actionwood is interesting material. Should be a tough bow. I’ll report back after I’ve had a chance to get it right. I am hunting 10/20 through Thanksgiving. Hopefully I’ll post pics of hunting success with it!
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| From: Pdiddly
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| Date: 05-Oct-21 |
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Laminated maple actionwood as mentioned…
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| From: tracy warren
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| Date: 11-Oct-21 |
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fdp, you are correct; the Savage Deathmaster. I knew bushmaster didn't sound rught.
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| From: ronnickel
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| Date: 11-Oct-21 |
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Lucky guy! I have been looking out for one of those in 40# for quite a while. Seems they're always 45# and higher. Closest I've owned was a 45# Purpleheart from 1995.
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| From: Tundra
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| Date: 12-Oct-21 |
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I'm pretty sure the first character is the number 1.
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| From: deerfly
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| Date: 12-Oct-21 |
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yeah, savage deathmaster, after fdp's correction I remembered reading about that and couldn't remember where.
Then it hit me the other day, SilverTip, bottom third of page 55, in talking about a failed joint bow building endeavor with Bob Savage circa 1974...
"That bow became the Schafer Silvertip. Its been my own design for a long time now, but it was based on the Savage Deathmaster."
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| From: Frisky
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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Bob Savage told me the original one-piece Silvertip had Deathmaster limbs. He felt a limb design Harry Drake sent him, and Paul made a tracing of, was likely used in the TD Silvertip.
Joe
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| From: Frisky
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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Not to change the subject, but Bob Savage disliked the Howatt bows and said he never used their design in any bow he made. He did, however, like Bear TD bows, including the 76er riser.
Joe
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| From: Backcountry
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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I’ve heard of Damon Howatt. Made a LOT of really nice bows.
Who the hell is Bob Savage? Sounds like a name invented for a Marvel comic book character.
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| From: Krag
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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Bob Savage was interviewed for and quoted extensively in the Paul Shafer biography "Silvertip" about his bow building relationship with Paul and the evolution of the Deathmaster (which Paul considered the best recurve at the time) into the one piece Silvertip. Damon Howard is not mentioned at all in the book and Martin only for the business relationship Paul had with them producing a semi-finished, lower cost, Silvertip clone for him that ended in a lawsuit over quality issues. Savage tells of the Harry Drake connection Frisky mentioned above in the book.
If you google Deathmaster bow there is a 1983 brochure for the Deathmaster that gives some background on Savage and he mentions who contributed to the design of his Deathmaster. I believe the brochure that comes up is from Frisky's website.
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| From: Frisky
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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Yes, he sent me old brochures and asked me to set the record straight about his Deathmaster. This was about 15 years ago or so. He was a ton of fun to talk to! Last May, I got a call from him, out of the blue. He wants me to make him brush buttons. I'm ready to start production but haven't done it yet. He can't contact me, as I've since dropped that phone number, lol! I'll make them and send him some this fall. This time, he told me a classic slingshot story. He loves shooting slingshots! He kind of gives you the impression he's no nonsense. He's still hunting too
Joe
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| From: Backcountry
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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So... are we to believe that Harry Drake gave “Bob Savage” a limb design for a bow that would compete with his own Drake line that was then sold to Fasco?
Meanwhile, Paul Shaeffer was fond of Damon Howatt bows and tight with Gail Martin who also made some of the Deathmasters that would compete against his line of Howatt/Martin/Hatfield bows?
Hmmmmm.....
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| From: Frisky
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| Date: 13-Oct-21 |
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Yes, Harry and Bob corresponded. Harry sent a radical limb design to Bob that came in the mail while Paul was visiting. Paul traced a pattern of the design.
Joe
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| From: Backcountry
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| Date: 14-Oct-21 |
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What a tangled web.
I’m chagrined to learn of the lawsuit over the Martin-produced, Schafer-designed economy Silvertip.
It would be interesting to compare a Silvertip side by side with some Howatt bows to see the similarities that some noted upthread.
I also reluctantly acknowledge that the Deathmaster bow was contrived by Bob Savage, although a “Deathmaster” sounds like some device Doc Savage would have come up with, not Bob. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Besides, if Bob Savage liked the Bear ‘76 takedown as Frisky claims, his credibility is already suspect.
Still, Harry Drake giving away his ideas to Bob be like Henry Ford giving away his secrets to Louis Chevrolet. Really?
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| From: fdp
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| Date: 14-Oct-21 |
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" Harry Drake giving away his ideas to Bob be like Henry Ford giving away his secrets to Louis Chevrolet. Really?"
During the period of time that this happened there wasn't nearly as much "secrecy" as involved in archery as it seems folks think.
Duplicating the design of a limb is as simple as getting a sample of the limb and using a pencil, a measuring tape and a micrometer to take some measurements. It's really pretty simple.
Rocky Miller who was a very good friend of Bob Savage also made some of the Deathmaster recurves. And Bob was influential in Rocky adding a glass lamination inside his limb core by encouraging him to try it.
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| From: Frisky
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| Date: 14-Oct-21 |
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Bob and Paul began their experimentation with TD bows by building limbs and bolting them to 76er risers. Bob still hunts with one.
Joe
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| From: Harleywriter
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| Date: 14-Oct-21 |
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I looked for Deathmaster for several years - anybody that knows them tend to hang on to them. Last time I talked with Bob was several years ago at Traditional Bowhunters of Montana winter gathering
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