Had to change up my shooing form to keep shooting. I tore my rotator on my string arm last year and the Dr and I decided no surgery due to age and history and just take shoots when needed.

I have been reading about the war bow shooter form and watched Youtube, by stepping the string arm leg back, leaning forward so all the tension go to the back muscles and release the breath upon the shot. This has greatly taken off the stress on the shoulder which I can shoot my 42# recurve. The other thing is that a short push-pull has helped also, a swing draw causes more stress on the tear, about a dozen shots is my limit but it is better than nothing. Had one person tell me he hasn't seen that type of shooting form, all I said was whatever works.

Been down this road with several bow arm rotators surgeries which I had to retrain all over again. Been using my back muscles more after those but not as aggressive as now.

If anyone has a different approach I am all open to it.

If you're close enough you need to go to Jim Ploens seminar at Coon Rapids and let him show how to engage your back.

After 70 years of drawing and shooting a bow the wrong way, I've torn both rotator cuffs. In addition to not using back tension a P.T. saw I was rotating my bow arm shoulder in. Now I have been practicing with a green band and drawing while looking in the mirror . It is so easy to do it right but when you are on a 3 D course, you forget what you have learned and revert back to the old ways. I do think age has a lot to do with that. Teaching an old dog new tricks seems just about right.

jjs -

The "horse draw", beginning the draw with BOTH arms elevated to 45 degrees and keeping the arrow level to the ground while drawing to anchor is the best way protect your shoulder while it heals.

Viper out.

Thanks twoforhooking, that's what worked for me. My bow shoulder had been sore for 12 years. Then I got a Howard Hill Wesley special. Now my shoulder pain is gone. I really think the way that bow draws is better for my shoulder. It doesn't have the preload like my hybrid longbows so there is less strain on the shoulder joint initially and until maybe half draw. If that makes sense.

Viper, any pics or video of that?

When you go to the gym and do rows do you pull the weight up near your ears, or down by your chest. With the prevalence of target form today and the amount of posts about shoulder issues and low poundage kills it makes you think…

Those pictures of Howard are only one example of the various different types of stances he used when adapting to a particular shoting situation. And actually it is a rather poor example of his form when shooting at stationary targets.

Pay attention in those photos to where the draw is building in the push pull cycle down low and where the arrow ends up compared to the shoulders. The straight arm out draw back to the ear level method puts the weight building while the drawing arm shoulder is way out there in front due to the straight bow arm.

So Hill was shooting at a moving target when he had that photoshoot to demonstrate drawing in his “how to shoot” pamphlet?

I think Hill was demonstrating a fluid shot at a moving target in that picture. I've seen many pictures of Hill's form that were different but rarely in a typical target form. John Schulz's book and video "Hittin' em Like Howard Hill" has good illustrations of Hill form.

Nate Steen's blog and videos is also excellent with examples of Hill style drawing of the bow with possibly a slight modification at about the last 6 inches which I like.

I'm not going to argue the point because in the grand scheme of things I don't care one way or the other. And I don't know whether he was or wasn't shooting at a moving target or not, and neither do you because neither of us were there. And Howard don't hang out here.

But that said if you spend time watching a lot of Hill video's and pay attention to how he adapts his STANCE to different shot opportunities, you'll see the one pictured isn't all he used. From almost a straight up target stance to a more crouching stance as pictured.

The easiest way to get an idea of how to engage BACK muscles it try different techniques and angles FROM THE WAIST UP. If you have your form and shot sequence right from the waist up, the waist down shouldn't matter. And...the higher or lower your arms are in relation to the line of your shoulders the more difficult it becomes, and that is somewhat dependent on the individual. Additionally, the importance of elbow position at the beginning of the draw is nearly always overlooked.

And like I said......the only person that I know of that has done any actual research about the muscles used to draw a bow and how they work is Jim Ploen. So if I had questions about it, I'd ask him rather than relying on a picture that's probably 70 years old.

Jim is more than helpful and very approachable and is very good at putting his instruction into easy to understand language. So easy in fact that some folks discredit what he says because he doesn't cover it with any kind of mumbo jumbo fairy dust type of stuff.

But hey...folks gotta' do what folks gotta' do......

I agree with fdp. I was originally just trying to describe the "draw force" of a Howard Hill longbow and that it seems to be better for my shoulder in my case.

"I was originally just trying to describe the "draw force" of a Howard Hill longbow and that it seems to be better for my shoulder in my case...in MY experience that early pre-load is very similar to the draw cycle on a compound (just not as severe) which can be troublesome for some folks.

Man -

Guess you haven't read my book :^)

Here you go.

Viper out.

No, I haven’t - sorry :^) That’s what I thought you were talking about, just never heard it called that. It is however the draw style I adopted when recovering from a shoulder injury and you are absolutely right. Thanks

Thanks to everyone. This discussion was helpful to me regarding different drawing techniques.

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