From: Bulls & Bucks
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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My wife is getting into traditional archery after years of shooting a compound but her draw length is only 24.5 inches so my question is, would a short bow like 48 to 52 inches giver her better performance than a longer bow?
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From: Caughtandhobble
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Call maddog archery, he will make her a bow that will fit her perfect at a great price.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Bow length is not the important thing for best performance, it's limb design. Many 62" bows will shoot better and faster than some 52". Best case scenario would be to have her shoot as many as you can before deciding, it isn't always about someone else's favorite bow, find one that works for her.
Sandy Ellott had a 24" draw and shot target bows of 64 to 66 inch and did quite well even on long field round shoots.
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From: Bulls & Bucks
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Ok so I guess what I am asking is limb design being equal will she get more performance out of a shorter bow? I know there are a tone over variables that go into it.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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no I dont think so,, when you short draw a bow,, the performance goes down,, long or short,, I am just thinking out loud,, but the bow that has the best performance at 28 will give her the best performance at the shorter draw,, the length of the bow would not be the determining factor,, so my thinking is to answer your question,, is no,,
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Ok shoot the bow you want at her draw through a chrono ,, this will answer,, if you are target shooting you can go down in arrow weight to get it to shoot flatter,,, if you want to kill a deer ,, I would say 150 fps with hunting wieght arrow would be good,,
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From: fdp
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I agree with Brad Smith.
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From: longshot1959
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I have a 25" draw and can tell you this. The KMags I have had shoot pretty good at short draw but they are still rather sensitive to shoot accurately at longer distances. The 60" bows I have had from Bear Super K (which were disappointing at short draws) to a myriad of others were all over the place in performance. The longer riser with the shortest limbs tended to work best. Playing with ILF stuff really opened my eyes when I used short limbs cranked all the way down (plus some in one experiment) and those worked real well. The best combo I found was a 17" riser with slight deflex and short limbs (58" bow) bottomed out. With my homemade wedges to increase preload, they were even better.
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From: Corax_latrans
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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“but the bow that has the best performance at 28 will give her the best performance at the shorter draw,, ”
I think I’m going to disagree with that.
I have it on pretty darn good authority that if a limb is designed to open up at a longer DL than the shooter has the ability to reach, then the bow is not going to perform as it should.
So no, it’s not about the actual length of the bow, but the draw length for which the design was optimized.
I’m not going to make big any pronouncements about how many feet per second might be involved, but as I said… I have it on good authority that the number is not zero. And there are reputable bowyers out there who have designed bows specifically for shorter-armed archers.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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As a rule of thumb yes. Good bowyers recommend bow length for draw lengths. An overly long bow you won't be getting into the working area. For instance on most 60" + recurves she would not even be opening the recurces. >>>----> Ken
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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You can have the same length and design limbs on a 62" bow as a 54" bow. Look around, there are some out there that may surprise you as to performance regarding longer lengths.
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From: Jegs.mi
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I can't speak to bow design. I can tell you I have seen a light weight 55" Shakespeare necedah outperform any other bow my kids have shot. Draw lengths between 22-27". If there's a certain custom you are interested in the bowyers will shoot you straight.
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From: Andy Man
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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lady I shoot with has a 24" draw and Leon Stewart, BW and Steve Turay all recommended a shorter bow for her size and draw length
with arrows matched to her poundage she shoots as fast and far as any one else with a heavier bow
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From: lamb
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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get her a longer bow like george said. accuracy first. longer bow is always more accurate. howard hill shot a 72'' longbow with a 28 '' draw my wife draws 24'' and shoots a 66'' gillo bow 25'' riser short limbs ilf
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From: Nrthernrebel05
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I see no reason for a real short (52” and under) nor anything over 58”. I think a little more weight in the slightly longer bows help with accuracy. The main thing is are you drawing far enough to get the limbs to work. I draw 26”, I have a lot of bows to choose from. Ranging from my 54” Super Necedah to a 66” Swift Wing. They range from marked 38#-52#. Chrono speeds from 146-168 fps. Fastest was my 60” 48# Fedora.
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From: Therifleman
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Ken nailed it and this has been consistent with advice I've gotten from some top end bowyers.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I did say as a rule of thumb. Of course you can put stubby limbs on a long riser & build a hot rod. I was thinking of a normal bow & it does matter greatly. Something he could purchase not build or warf. Just trying to be helpful not include every possibility. Of course design matters but there are extremes. Howard was shooting 100 pound bows & scrunched up because he couldn't get good long arrow shafts. 28" has always been the standard normal & the rest of us have to work around it. >>>----> Ken
Bulls & bucks your thinking is right on to start with. No longer than 58" for standard bows.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I like to defer to the chronograph,,I do agree the longer bow would be more forgiving,,interesting topic
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From: Orion
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'll repeat-- generally shorter bows will yield better performance than longer bows, and given a relatively short draw length your wife would generally be better off with a shorter bow. But, I think you're thinking too short. I wouldn't recommend anything shorter than 56 inches (recurve) for even a 24-inch draw.
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From: Osr144
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Got to agree with George It's limb design.My wife's Sabo Hunter proves it.47# and out shoots My 60# bows.It shoots flat and fast.Wasn't there a bow called a K 38.38" I think they were. Some of those so called horse bows are nice and short and can be had in lower # weight too.Hope you find a nice bow for her. Osr
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From: 1buckurout
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Not necessarily. She probably be better off with a bow/limbs with a lot of preload built in.
That's on of the great things about ILF. You can set the preload to get the maximum performance out of a set of limbs for short-draw folks.
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From: ReddOaker
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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The bow that she enjoys the most and comfortable shooting with will get the most performance. I have all types of bows on my rack, but my wife defers to her Bodnik Mingo 50" because the grip fits her like a glove and the physical weight of the bow (light as a feather for a recurve). So that's the bow that gets the most reps for her. If your wife is just getting into to traditional I wouldn't sweat the performance till she knows what she enjoys in a bow. I got my wife a bowyer made d/r longbow and a mint wing falcon years ago because liked the performance at the draw weight, but she didn't enjoy shooting those. Just my 2 cents.
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From: fdp
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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It's more than limb design. Side view profile is even more important.
For every inch of deflex that there is a bow design that's one inch of power stroke you lose.
A bow with a 9" brace height is being drawn 15" if someone has a 25" draw length. A bow with a 7" brace height is being drawn 17". That can easily equate into 10 or more feet per second for same draw weight bows. Doesn't matter how long the bow is.
There's more to it than bow length and limb design.
A 64" bow with a 7" brace height will in all likelihood shoot faster for her than a 52" bow with a 9" brace height.
How much that matters to you only you can decide.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Yes Sir if you want to spend time hunting for the "Holy Grail" or build a high dollar custom there are a few examples out there. I don't know why no one is recommending names models or quoting prices. If you want to walk in and pick up a bow or order one for her to learn to shoot with, stick with a common name & 56" to 58" Incidentally the new Black Widow catalog for a 23" to 26" draw has several models that are recommended 54" several are 56" & several are 58" Full disclosure, they have one 60" 7 models 54" to 58" one 60" for short draw. Only one example of availability. I think every model is made in 62" & 64" lengths none recommended for a 23" to 26" draw. Maybe they know a thing or two about bow design. Do you recon? >>>>------> Ken
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From: Andy Man
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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personaly I would take her to a shoot and let her handle recurves 50's style recurves and hybrid longbows and get a feel whr what she likes then shot second hand until decides and happy
if sticks with it over time maybe a beter bow if wanting?
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From: Osr144
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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Ok there is a bit more to it than limb design .I can tell you from my experience limb profile and physical weight and materials do make a huge differance.Obviously a good fitting riser and grip make a differance too.Possibably finding the best combination is the most important thing to do.I think folks understanding of what constitutes an efficient bow varies quite a bit.For me it's transfered energy from any given bow design that's important.May be we should just appriciate a bow for what it is.They are not all rocket launchers .Sometimes smooth shooting comfortable bows that fit the shooter better.Don't really care as long as folk enjoy their archery.Thats why we do it Yeah Osr
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From: longbowguy
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Date: 02-Jul-22 |
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I have taught a lot of women and youths and found that they can shoot my longer training bows just fine. With their shorter draw lengths they can shoot bows rated at higher draw weights than you would think. Most women and girls can handle up to 30# bows with several weeks of training. - lbg
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From: Bassmaster
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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56 to 58 inches should work for her.
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From: Corax_latrans
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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But you know…
I am STILL trying to figure out how in the world Larry built a bow that set a flight record when drawn to #50 pounds…. and then the exact same bow set another record when drawn to just #30…..
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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GF easy answer. Record setting flight bows are the hot rods of archery. Like hot Rods that are not built for the best gas MPG nor for long distance trips & to last for years. Many of them blow up trying to set records. If they last a few shots & set a record they were successful & won't become every day shooters.
I believe there was another subject of students shooting longer bows. No doubt about it they work as long as it is not so long that a height challenged student can't keep the tip above the ground. Are they efficient? No. Would I recommend to folks drawing 24" No. How about a new hunters first bow again No. The OP's question would she be better served by a shorter bow? YES. No need for extremes in that direction either. 56" to 58" standard bow would be a good starter. >>>----> Ken
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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It's pretty simple and goes back to what Brad Smith said originally.
The bow that is the most efficient at 28" is also the most efficient at 26". There isn't any reason to try and over complicate it.
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From: Therifleman
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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Ken, I agree Black Widow is a great example of a company understanding bow/limb design and giving customers recommendations for what will work best for them. I don't begin to open the limbs of a 64" recurve, but I get them open on a 56" recurve just fine.
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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The bow Larry set those 2 records with was an off the shelf production run bow. Nothing hot rodded about it at all. It wasn't built specifically as a flight bow, and it wasn't a one off. Anybody that wanted one could buy one.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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Larry set those records you speak of in the conventional longbow class, right enough. He also set records shooting asiatic bows by J. monus. Neither of which were in the Unlimited class I was talking about for overall long distance flight records. The Martin Savanna he used was a prototype. The Savanna is a heck of a bow as is all of his designs. He is a very skilled shooter,bow designer, & One heck of a guy that I am proud to call a friend. I have had most of his bows & have 2 of J. Monus's bows. The Jozsef bows in my possession have his flight records printed on them & signed along with his picture.
Advice still stands. I recommend a normal bow of 56" to 58" for his wifes 24 1/2 draw. I do not recommend a longer bow for any student or hunter with a draw under 25" I don't recommend my Monus or 70" HH bow or any specialty bow for them. It won't be as efficient or work as well for learning & everyday shooting. He has probably either bought a bow or totally frustrated with all the technical jargon here. I am going out to shoot now. >>>>-----> Ken
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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I inadvertently left out Larry's record with the Viper. Sorry. J.Monus also holds records with longbow & compound. >>>----> Ken
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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yes just get her shooting, you can always get a different bow if you find something that she likes better,,,
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From: lamb
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Date: 03-Jul-22 |
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check out the length bow the south korean women shoot. best archers in the world nothing shorter than 66'' a few years back my 10 yr old daughter shot a 68'' bow the bow was taller than her. at the tbone [trad bowhunters of new england] she won her class boys and girls up to 16 yrs old the iron bear shoot against men and women and the shoot off for overall champ against men and women having someone new starting with a 56 to 58 '' bow is a train wreck waiting to happen
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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Lamb would you please explain how a 56" to 58" bow is a train wreck. Please enlighten me. What do you mean? Could you post pictures of a little girl shooting a bow taller than her & post some specs as to how efficient it is. Was the lady with the 24 1/2 draw intending to join the Korean archery team? What is it you don't understand about a specialty bow & one for every day use? What bow do you shoot & a few specs on it would be nice maybe even some accomplishments. I am always ready to learn something new. Will you please enlighten me? Thanks, >>>>-----> Ken Ken
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From: fdp
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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This was all beat to death on here YEARS ago, and years before that. And at one time I was a proponent of shorter bows for shortter draw lengths as well.
Pokenhope Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Private Reply Date: 05-May-09
Which ever one performs best at 28"-30" will be the one that performs best at 24". Performance is gained or lost in the first half of the draw, not the second half. On average the longer bows will be faster within reason....O.L.
Pokenhope Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Private Reply Date: 31-Mar-09
Montega, "Shorter draw guys (like me at 26"), you are spinning your wheels messing with anything but super tuning your arrow and keeping your string bare except for what it needs to be whisper quiet. Even poundage gives little in the way of speed at short draws- the difference, on average," You haven't tested enough bows. We ran a whole bunch of various bows awhile back at 24", 26", 28", and 30" for the longer ones, all at 9gpp at those draw lengths. There as a good 20fps difference at 26" between the worst and best. Granted there are a lot in the middle with little difference but the extreams are wide. Some bows would perform as well at 24" as others did at 28". All bows increase or decrease about 3-4% (3-4 fps) for every inch up or down in draw length. So numbers you see split between 2 bows at 28 or 30" will hold solid at 24" as well. It's amazing how linear they are. There is no difference between good longbows and recurves and on average the shorter bows are WORSE performs at shorter draws then longer ones are. Just opposite of common wisdom. So don't give up looking for help at your short draw. Every little detail helps as much as it does at 30", you just don't have as large a margine of error....O.L.
Pokenhope Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Private Reply Date: 21-Nov-08
"The answer is mostly yes. However, as a rule you will lose a certain amount of performance as bow length increases." FDP, Maybe that's true with "Hill" style bows but not with any other. I've tested a lot of bows and on average the longer bows, within reason, perform better at any draw length you want to pick....O.L.
Pokenhope Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Private Reply Date: 04-Oct-08
After doing a lot of testing and experimenting we've found shorter bows lose energy storage and efficiency as the bows go shorter. You'll also see that at the high end. Seems to be something magic around 62-64" with draw lengths from 24-30". If you can find 28" or 30" data, and look at bow "a" compared to bow "b", which ever one is fastest at 28 or 30" will also be at 24" regardless of it's length. Good performing bows at 28 or 30" are so because of the f/d curve in the first half of the draw, not the second half.....O.L.
There's a hundred different threads on here about bow efficiency and draw length with posts from O.L., Larry Hatfield and lots of others and they all have the same conclusion.
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From: selstickbow
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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there's no ONE THING that determines what bow we (most of us)shoot. so when it's asked about performnce, speed? it's not the only criterion he/she will choose a bow from. NO ONE HERE shoots absolutely the fastest bow made. IF YOU GET HER the fastest bow made it might shoot horrible, or look horrible, or feel bad in the hand, or at release shake her teeth loose, etc. You don't want her shooting a really slow bow either. So show off to her 6 or 8 medium good looking bows of short-medium- longer lengths at weights she might be good with - KNOWN GOOD MODELS - and let her choose. Give her pros & cons, she's already a compound shooter so not a total rookie. She will shoot a bow a lot more if she LIKES IT.
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From: TGbow
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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I would go with 58 inch range if you get her a bow that's a 28 inch draw at the marked poundage. She don't need a bow too long but she needs to get into the working part of the limbs. Depending on what poundage she can handle also. If she can handle 35 pounds say, maybe a 45 lb at 28 draw..unless you go with a custom bow that's designed to pull whatever poundage at 24.5 draw length
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From: crazyjjk
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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One other consideration is riser length in total bow length and limb efficiency.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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I didn't have access to a lot of bows to try much less a chronograph. Thankfully someone recommended a 58" bow with matching arrows. It served me well. Numerous deer,hogs,& my first of (2 bears) were harvested. I believe that was all he was asking & was seeking a little confirmation. She wanted a bow to learn to shoot traditional. UH OH! that word will bring out another round of piling on. I recommended a 56" to 58" bow, common at big box sporting goods stores & imports. I just didn't catch where he was asking for top speed,performance,long risers with short limbs, speciality bows,tuning, Korean archery teams, or anything else.She just wanted to get started. Have a good evening.>>--> Ken
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From: tecum-tha
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Date: 04-Jul-22 |
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A 13" Dryad riser with a slender grip and Uukha short limbs is a great combination at my 25" draw. And it outperforms my other custom bows. In order to get performance at this draw, the limbs need ample pre-load and need to open early enough to get recurve action. A longer bow is normally detrimental to smaller people and if the grip is too fat, this is problem #1. And the riser not too heavy. A bow you can't hold comfortable will not perform for the shooter. I would not go over 58" bow length because that will become unhandy and does not have the right body to bow ratios.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 05-Jul-22 |
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I am still not convinced the answer is yes,, but open to see some stats,and ,try to keep an open mind,, Im sure it will give adequate performance, but not sure about the better part
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 05-Jul-22 |
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ok just for fun I will give this example,, its fictional but could easily be realistic,, you have a 64 inch bow its 50# at 28 and will shoot a 500 grain arrow 170 fps,,its a long bow,, ok now you have a shorter bow,,50# @ 28 and its shoots the same arrow 165 fps, ok if you short draw each bow you will loose about 5 fps with each inch of draw reduce,, so now the longer bow is shooting about 155fps at 25 inches of draw,,and the the shorter bow is shooting about 150 fps,,,these are just rough estimates and depending on bow desighn would vary,, but they are in the ball park for straight tip bows,, Im sure recurves would be a whole different story, but I dont think the guy stated, long bow or recurve,, so there are alot of variables and fun to speculate,, but I dont think there is one simple answer,, but shooting the longer bow and shorter bow through a chronograph, would really answer the question without speculation,,,
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From: Yellah Nocks
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Date: 05-Jul-22 |
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I read this thread and now my head is throbbing. I am NOWHERE even close in knowledge that these posters have. But, what about simply setting a rough length, say, 60 to 62 inches as a starting point. You say she is transitioning from compound. I think that is awesome. How about spending just one season with a lightweight low cost recurve to see if she is going to like it? A 35 @28 should land her near 30 lbs at her draw. Either 800 or 900 spine arrows. Let her shoot coached. See where it goes, make it FUN. AFTER that first season the both of you can discuss what she wants and what length and style bow suits her. Just a thought. And so, I recommend a take down bow so limb changes can be effected easily and within any cost constraints. I am still learning, but I know what it is like to make the change. I did it alone, with some guidance from the posts on here. Do not miss my compound. Glad I changed up. Draw length? Let the first season guide you and her. Once she has good form she can try different bows and she will KNOW what works for HER.
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From: 2 bears
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Date: 05-Jul-22 |
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Debating makes no sense now they have done been scared off. Hopefully she is shooting her pretty new 58" bow with a big smile on her face. Rather that shooting a compound because Trad is too difficult.>>---> Ken
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From: tecum-tha
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Date: 05-Jul-22 |
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A bow may be 10fps faster, but if the grip does not fit, it will miss 10 fps faster a lot more. Shorter draws require only a slight amount of deflex or a straight riser. Backset risers are slightly faster but less accurate. Accuracy is in the riser and performance in the limbs. Too much deflex will rob you of acceleration length because you still draw from the lowest part of the grip. Between my 58" custom recurves and the 13" riser with Uukhas VX1000 Evo 2 limbs (56") are 15 fps with 10gpp. This is the limbs and not the riser. Both risers are very similar in geometry. And being 5'-5" short makes everything above 60" feel just too long.
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