I want to learn this bare shaft thing without fighting. So let me see if I got this right. I am to take a full length shaft and cut it down a 1/4" at a time until it flies in the bullseye with the same length feathered shaft? What if when that happens my arrows are hanging off my bow 3 inches too long?

bs -

Sure you can do that, but it's kind of a waste of time. 1/4" usually equals less than 1# of dynamic spine. Most people can't shoot that difference.

If you want to go the full length route, then:

Bare shaft the full length arrow, with the head you want to use, and hope the results show weak.

Cut 1" off and repeat. If the arrows were weak to begin with, they should start acting stiffer. If they do, but are still weak, cut another inch off and retest.

Sooner or later they will (hopefully) start acting stiff. When they do, you can either leave well enough alone (slightly stiff), or weaken them with head weight and/or brace height.

Now, if you cut an inch off, and there's no change in the bare shaft separation AND nock kickout, then a flaw in YOUR from is over-riding the tune. Stop trying to tune and work on your technique until the arrows behave as expected.

Oh yeah, if you have 3" of arrow hanging off the back of your bow (and you don't like that), then you have to get the right arrows.

Basic rule of thumb:

10# of draw weight = 0.100" of deflection (spine) = 2" of shaft length = 100 grains of head weight or -50 grain of tail weight.

It's really nowhere near as complicated as it sounds.

Viper out.

I’ll make the popcorn!

Groundhog Day will be the movie.

Well at least someone finally explained it to me. Imma work on it

At least you are not sitting on your ass.Folk who ask the questions are are the ones who usually learn things.Hey your doing it and it's better than some folk who don't.Good luck and I hope you get good results Osr

“I got alot of advice from Tom, and many years ago he told me that bareshafting finger released bows, shooting off the shelf wasn't repeatable because even slight variations in form can throw off a bareshaft. ”

JMO….. Tom is not wrong.

But on the other hand…

2bears REALLY helped me make sense of all of this. The man is a machinist, and those guys tend to know a thing or two about numbers and repeatability.

His recommendation to use a large, blank piece of paper with a line down the middle of it was exactly what I needed. 1 inch blue masking tape works perfectly. (If your fletched arrows don’t hit down the middle, scrap the whole project until they do). But if you have three fletched arrows and three bare shafts, and you shoot at that line repeatedly, marking the holes in the paper from your bare shafts in each end, you will eventually observe a pattern where the marked holes tend towards one side or the other of the center of the group of UNmarked holes (which, if God loves you, will be clustered on the center of the line). The better shot you are, the fewer ends you’ll need to shoot in order to suss out the pattern, but sooner or later the preponderance of evidence will let you know what you need to know and what you need to correct.

I’m not going to pretend that it didn’t take me some time, but eventually I realized that I was shooting not one large group, but two small ones, and that has made all the difference for me.

Any statistician will tell you, the solution to Noise is more Signal. So if you think you have it close at let’s say 15 yards, then you can just keep backing up until you either get two different groups, or you don’t.

So JMO, bare-shafting with fingers absolutely DOES work. You just need to be able to shoot long enough and well enough to prove a distinction.

Let me just add, if you're tuning carbons, cutting in 1" increments is too much. I absolutely see a difference with a 1/4" change.

Watch ken Becks videos

All you need to know on bare shaft tuning

Think still on the black

Widow web site

What Viper said, I’d err on 1/8” cuts until you get perfect spine, another thing to consider is to compensate for the weight of fletching and glue you use for final arrows, i use electrical tape to compensate. If you come up with 3” in final trimming with the head weight you want, you should use 1spine weaker shaft.

"Let me just add, if you're tuning carbons, cutting in 1" increments is too much. I absolutely see a difference with a 1/4" change." x2

https://www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning

This is exactly why I like to paper tune,you will know exactly how your arrow is flying on the very first shot,nock high,nock low,weak or stiff spine and only using one arrow cut until you have a perfectly tuned arrow to your bow.tune when your fresh not after you’ve shot 50 arrow.If you have halfway decent form you can have your arrow cut and tuned in 6 shots and then go cut the rest of your dozen shafts the same length and fletch them all up and your good to go.It is really that simple but yes you need to start with a shaft spine close to the draw weight of you bow.like others have said if you end up with three inches overhang and that bothers you then you will need to go a spine lower and start all over with the tuning process.

Depends on the bow you are shooting and the features on the bow that allow for tuning.

Is it a riser made well past center, do you have a cushion plunger/adjustable rest, are tuning to a clicker device, is it on the limb or on the sight window?

The answer isn't cut and dried like it is sometimes made to seem.

Viper pretty much covered it. The problem that most people have with bare shafting is their form isn't good enough to get reliable results. It's not the method, but the execution that is the problem.

Orion nailed it. But here is the thing, you don't have to have perfect form, nor even great form, but you do have to have "repeatable" form. If you can't shoot with consistent form not much else is ever gonna help.

Secondly, tuning with arrow length is only one of many ways to tune. Don't get too hung up on it.

All good advice here to pick and choose from. What Corax said absolutely works & will reduce your overall group size.

Smokey what you say is not wrong but can be improved on. You have heard of paradox. When your arrow goes through paper it will make a different tear if the paper is 3 feet from the bow, 5 feet or 10 ft, The arrow is flexing not paradoxing. That is because of shooting with fingers & the string has to get out around the fingers. It is also caused by the sudden force on the back end of the shaft when the shaft is not perfectly straight on the bow. (Center Shot) A compound set centershot & shot with a release from directly behind the arrow doesn't cause that. Therefore paper tuning works much better for compounds. Bare shafting starting at 10 yards for safety check then at 20 & farther if you want to fine too, Is showing you what the arrow is doing at actual shooting ranges. You get it working there then your fletched arrows are golden & they don't need as much feather. If they get wet & matted down you can still make the shot. I hope you had time to read this & I hope it helps you understand.I wish you all the best.>>-->Ken

I started with 3 bare carbon shafts. 400, 480, & 500 spine all cut 28 3/4" . I draw 28"

and 100 gr. point weight 20 gr. insert , 20 gr. on the back. I quickly;y found my bow

likes the 480 bare shaft. Fletched it up and paper tuned from there. This is what worked

for me. Your results may very.

I can shoot consistently. My problem is my arrow usually shoots better when 3-5 inches of arrow are hanging over the bow

I can shoot consistently. My problem is my arrow usually shoots better when 3-5 inches of arrow are hanging over the bow

bs -

I think you know this, but is it possible that the 3"-5" of over hang is just making your aiming easier, and little to do with the actual "tune"?

Viper out.

Longer arrows just help reduce point on distance/gaps which is a good thing for those of us who are most interested in the short distances. I like long arrows.

Yes the longer the sight radius the more accurate. Compare pistol to rifle. If you actually need that overhang for the shaft to fly right you need a weaker spine to cut it shorter. >>>>-----> Ken

But if I cut the 3-5 inches off the arrows then no longer fly good as they are too stiff

Ah, yeah! That's why you should likely be buying weaker spined shafts.

How about heavier points

Im just going to use bigger feathers. LOL

I do it like this guy on the video. I have point weights from 65gn to 320gn and 350gn will be coming soon,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZJ3r3sAj-Y

BS Now you are trolling instead of learning. You need a weaker shaft if you want to cut it shorter. A heavier point weakens the shaft. Viper told you a 100 grains equals 2" of shaft. So if they are flying right cut 2" off & add 100 grains. Cut 4" off add 200 They should be the same. When your arrow is getting more nose heavy than you want drop down a spine.I don't think they will be exactly the same because carbon gets stiff quick when it is shortened. They will be real close if wood or aluminium.>>>-----> LOWER SPINE <------<<< If that don't do it, you are right slap a 1/2 turkey on there. I hope you like to shoot flu flu's LOL Have fun. >>>>-----> Ken

All my broadheads are close to 125 gr so I tune the bow/arrow combination so I can use what I have. I buy an arrow that I expect to shoot weak and trim it in.

I have one bow where I made an exception in order to use a batch of arrows I already have. I added a weighted broadhead adapter to weaken the shaft some...the adapters were a lot less expensive than buying new broadheads.

Again, in a world where I had enough broadheads and broadhead target capacity I'd be just as happy skipping all this and going straight to shooting broadheads...which is the last "tuning step anyway.

I am with you MGF. I have to make 28 inch arrows work with 125 grain broadheads. So any addition will have to be in adaptors.

I just make them up and shoot them

The ones that don’t fly good I loose them quicker and just end up with

The good ones

Like natural selection

Geezee if you can’t tell if an arrow flys good out of your bow you need to take up porch sitting

I don't want to make, carry or shoot arrows that don't fly well.

Busted..

An idle mind is the devil’s workshop

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