From: Jimbob
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Date: 19-Apr-22 |
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I was lucky enough to score 2.5 dozen 60-65 and 55-60 spine compressed cedars. The business end of the shaft is slightly over 9/32 and they taper to 1/4 inch. I found 1/4 glue on nocks, but Im not sure there is a glue on point made anymore to fit these? I know people go nutz over these shafts they are super dense and I can tell very tough. So what should I do for points on these? I was thinking I would get some 9/32 screw in points cut the screw in part off and have a machinist bore them out at a 5 degree taper. Thoughts, opinions, recommendations, please.
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From: fdp
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Date: 19-Apr-22 |
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Use 5/16 points. There is 1/32 of an inch difference in the 2 sizes.
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From: Pdiddly2
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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5/16 work fine…
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From: Pdiddly2
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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The original heads were 5/16” and never fully covered the headshrinker outserts. That is how they are designed. A Razorhead or Magnus Classic fit fine.
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From: Pdiddly2
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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The original heads were 5/16” and never fully covered the headshrinker outserts. That is how they are designed. A Razorhead or Magnus Classic fit fine.
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From: Jim
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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They were awesome shafts. I wish that some one would start making them again.
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From: Batman
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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Didn't an ARCHERY COMPANY in CANADA buy the equipment? Somebody help me out here? GOOD HUNTING & BLESSED BE!
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From: aromakr
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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James: Yes, someone bought the equipment, however unless they have a source of POC, its not going to work out. I believe there have been at least 3 different owners of Sweetland's equipment and none of them have been successful, because they have not used POC.
There was a video made many years ago by Dave Doren at a TAO meeting with Bill Sweetland talking about the shaft, how its made and that POC was the ONLY wood it would work with. Yes other woods will compress but not stay compressed for any length of time. The key is the oil in POC when subjected to high heat and compression turns to a type of glue that holds the shaft in the compressed state.
A little history about the Sweetland's, Bill's dad was a inventor and during WW1 he tried to make armor for the military by compressing woods, He compressed every specie he could lay his hands on, and discovered that POC was the ONLY one that would stay compressed. Bill being an archer, thought it would make an excellent arrow shaft, which it did. And why he moved from California to South West Oregon (home of POC) to create the Forgewood shaft.
Bob
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From: Steve P
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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Thanks for the informative history, Bob.
Steve
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From: fdp
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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"He compressed every specie he could lay his hands on,"
I think that's one of the key pieces of the puzzle. It is highly unlikely that any of the folks who have or will in the future buy the equipment are going to try a type of wood that wasn't tried and discarded previously.
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From: Uncle Lijiah
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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I wonder if another compressible wood shaft might work if it was pretreated with something(don't know what) to make it stay compressed?
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From: Justin
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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I've got a dozen 110115 spine Sweetlands. Still in the plastic package. Too scared to open them.....
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From: Stealth2
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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I shot Forgewoods for years until they were no longer made. If the originals were still made today, I would be shooting them.
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From: Jim
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Date: 20-Apr-22 |
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Thanks for sharing Bob.
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From: Pdiddly2
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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Here's a group of Battleshafts...I have a dozen that work well with 50-55# bows. The bow is a 1964 62" Swift Wing.
They fly very well and are tough as nails.The tip end of the shaft blanks were thicker than the nock end before they were compressed to the same thickness, so that creates a natural FOC as the tip wood is denser and stronger.
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From: stickbowhntr
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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Bob you areexcatly correct
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From: Pdiddly2
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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This is how the original heads fit...
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From: Pdiddly2
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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I have the original box and the re-order tag, but these are not collectible for me.
These arrows get used. If every one of them break taking an animal that will be immensely satisfying!
Crookedstix took an elk with one a few years ago...worked perfectly!
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From: mgmicky
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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Bob, are these the shafts you used when you had Whispering Winds? I still have a few that you made for me and they seem to be more durable than POC…
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From: aromakr
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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Michael:
No; The shaft I used was the Split-pine Hex-shaft. They were laminated Lodge-Pole Pine, much tougher than POC.
Sweetland had been out of business many years before I started Whispering Wind, and thanks for your business.
Bob
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From: raghorn
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Date: 21-Apr-22 |
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JimBob...PM to you
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From: lefty4
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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Looks like several lots just popped up on the big auction site.
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From: Orion
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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Jimbob. As others have noted, any 5/16 point will work on the shafts. For that matter, a 11/32 will as well, but there will be a large gap around the shaft for some distance into the point.
Sweetband also made aluminum spacers which he called head shrinkers to build up the point taper diameter to receive 11/32 heads. They weigh about 20 grains and look like a thin, tapered bushing that fits over the tapered shaft. The larger 11/32 head is then glued to the head shrinker. A while back, Jay St.Charles had offered a few dozen over EBay. You could check with him to see if he still has some. They still come up on EBay, but very rarely. Most folks don't know what they are.
Last I heard, Sweetland's machinery was still in Alaska and for sale. Jack B. Harrison and a couple of other guys bought the equipment and moved it to Alaska. The wood they compressed was some sort of hemlock or fir, not POC. They compressed OK, but they turned out even heavier than compressed POC, about 100-150 grains per shaft heavier.
I believe the business folded because of health problems of one or more of the owners. I think some of the shafts they made are still available from Alaska Frontier Supply. Might be somewhat off on the name. It was Alaska Frontier something.
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From: Orion
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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After seeing Lefty's notice, I checked the Ebay listing. Not a bad price for the arrows/shafts. A pix of the head shrinkers are in the third ad, offered with 3 dozen shafts. There are two packages shown. The package on the left contains the head shrinkers. The package on the right are converta points.
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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Does make you wonder if there is any wood elsewhere in the world that might perform like the ceder does. Has to be some definable characteristic that could be searched for.
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From: aromakr
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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JusPassin:
If you could find a suitable wood somewhere in the world, what would it cost to transport it here? And what would they cost to produce them???
Bob
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From: Casekiska
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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If someone wants to investigate this the Forest Products Laboratory in Madison, WI could probably be helpful in selecting a wood with PO Cedar characteristics. The lab is near (or possibly even on) the university of WI campus and is world-renowned for its studies and experiments with wood species from across the world. If there is something to be known about wood, they know it! This might be a place to go to find a suitable species for compressing into suitable arrow shafts.
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From: Orion
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Date: 25-Apr-22 |
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I think the issues now are production costs and profit margins (and reduced demand) more than wood availability. Woods other than POC can probably be found to work. Whatever the Alaskan conifer that Harrison used worked. Even POC is still available in limited quantities.
However, sourcing the wood is expensive, and the additional sawing needed for the compression process and the compression process itself requires more time and labor (and equipment upkeep). That translates into higher cost. It would be difficult to produce for much less than $10 per shaft. Add some profit and they would be quite expensive.
On top of that, most trad folks have switched to carbon shafts. There just isn't the demand to support a profitable endeavor, IMO.
But, original Sweatband shafts do show up on EBay every now and then, like those that Lefty flagged that are for sale now.
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From: archer MB
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Date: 26-Apr-22 |
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Well, the Sweetland equipment is sitting in a shop and work has been made to get it in operation again. Things like this take time to perfect. For certain the technology of today allows more ways of densifying wood, and as stated above; there are obstacles that come about from time to time. All I can say, is be patient.
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From: Orion
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Date: 27-Apr-22 |
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archer: Do you know something the rest of us don't? Is someone working to put the equipment back into production? In Alaska? Canada?
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From: Snag
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Date: 27-Apr-22 |
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Yes, someone has the machinary. But the lack of enough quality port orford cedar is a concern. You see this type of cedar has the highest levels of lignin. It is a natural substance that glues fibers together under the correct temperature and under the correct pressure.
“ Mojgan Nejad, an assistant professor in the Department of Forestry at Michigan State University, has been working with wood panel producers and adhesive manufacturers for several years in pursuit of alternatives to petrochemicals.”
It has researchers interest as well.
You can run other types of wood. But because of the lower levels of lignin the stability of the dole is suspect. Even Mr. Sweetland had degrees of success with the best wood for this. I have seen some that are more oval than round. But when done with good quality poc with the correct process you get the finest, most durable wood shafts ever made!
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From: Corax_latrans
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Date: 28-Apr-22 |
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How about balsa dipped in West System epoxy??
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