Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


flame hardened self bows?

Messages posted to thread:
vikingbear 21-Mar-22
Keith 21-Mar-22
HRhodes 22-Mar-22
Cedarsavage 22-Mar-22
rattlesnake 22-Mar-22
Ron Newell 22-Mar-22
Arvin 22-Mar-22
Bjrogg 23-Mar-22
Bassmaster 23-Mar-22
Beendare 23-Mar-22
Eric Krewson 24-Mar-22
Bjrogg 24-Mar-22
BowAholic 24-Mar-22
Phil 24-Mar-22
Bjrogg 24-Mar-22
Runner 24-Mar-22
Onehair 25-Mar-22
Bjrogg 25-Mar-22
Bassmaster 25-Mar-22
Stickbow Felty 07-Apr-22
Stickbow Felty 07-Apr-22
Onehair 21-Apr-22
Bassmaster 22-Apr-22
badger 22-Apr-22
Live2Hunt 22-Apr-22
Jeff Durnell 22-Apr-22
Runner 22-Apr-22
From: vikingbear
Date: 21-Mar-22




Does flame hardening really improve performance as much as Billy Berger claims in recent Traditional Bowhunter Magazine. Just curious self boywers .

From: Keith Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 21-Mar-22




I'm not sure yet. Tempering the belly with a heat gun certainly works, I just haven't gone all in with a long slow roast that fire hardening does.

FYI, IMO, don't bother with purchasing the DVD (I did). You can gather all and more information from the y-tube videos than the DVD.

From: HRhodes
Date: 22-Mar-22




I watched some of these videos and I am interested in trying the techniques with quick drying and fire hardening hickory. I am guessing Shannon and Beckum are on to something. It made sense to me.

From: Cedarsavage
Date: 22-Mar-22




I haven't done it with flame, but I did my last one with a heat gun, and I feel like it prevented string follow from getting worse. I didn't cover it in the video cuz it was the first time, but it was this one and it kept string follow from getting worse than it did in the first tiller.

From: rattlesnake
Date: 22-Mar-22




Clay Hayes has some good YouTube on the subject.

Yes it works if done correctly...

From: Ron Newell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 22-Mar-22




Definitely helped my hickory.

From: Arvin
Date: 22-Mar-22




I don’t fire hard wood but it do use a heat gun on it. Don’t scorch it though. I usually do that when straightening the limbs. Then remove that during tiller.

From: Bjrogg
Date: 23-Mar-22




I’ve never tried the fire hardened or even watch the videos but I’m thinking some woods probably would respond well. I really scorch my HHB with heat gun and it definitely changes the wood. You can feel the different when scraping it. Smells good to.

I get a little time I’ll have to watch the videos.

Bjrogg

From: Bassmaster
Date: 23-Mar-22




I have fire hardened a half dozen of them. Hickory, elm, white oak and Walnut. Their seems to be some advantages to it. Hickory responded the best, and elm ,and white oak was OK. Walnut not so much.

From: Beendare
Date: 23-Mar-22




What is fire hardening?

Getting every bit of moisture outof the wood no doubt?

Does it chemically change the wood fibers?

From: Eric Krewson
Date: 24-Mar-22




As I understand it the cells in wood are called lignigns, with any application of heat you melt these lignigns and reconfigure them.

The same in reverse would be to apply undue stress into a wood bow limb and crush the ligmigns causing a loss of poundage, performance and possibly string follow.

This can occur if you draw a bow past the target draw length and poundage while tillering. If you are making a 50# bow you don't want to overdraw the bow to 60# because you are crushing lignigns that would be functioning for strength at 50#.

From: Bjrogg
Date: 24-Mar-22




I think the lingigns are almost like a glue.

It’s the same way a corn cob is attached to its shank. At certain stages in the corns growth and in certain environmental conditions the lingigns are weak and the corn stalk can drop its ears. Not something you want. As it matures and dries down more the lingigns get stronger.

I’m guessing it’s what holds the fibers and grain together in wood. I suspect it is changed and in some woods that change can improve it.

Bjrogg

From: BowAholic
Date: 24-Mar-22




there's a good article about it... ( https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00107-020-01637-3 )

From: Phil
Date: 24-Mar-22




At what point does the wood become so dehydrated it becomes brittle and likely to snap

From: Bjrogg
Date: 24-Mar-22




You let it reaclimate before you flex it. At least with normal heat treatment.

In some woods the heat treatment is really good for compression. Make sure you don’t heat the back. The heat is terrible for tension.

Bjrogg

From: Runner
Date: 24-Mar-22




"At what point does the wood become so dehydrated it becomes brittle and likely to snap"

Right when it's too hot and too dry.

From: Onehair
Date: 25-Mar-22




I have made a couple and have to say there is something to it. Even after fire hardening hickory will take on moisture. I found Odies oil worked very well as di an epoxy finish. All of the spray on stuff did nothing. However our humidity is always super high

From: Bjrogg
Date: 25-Mar-22




I could be wrong but I think Marc puts pine pitch on. I think he gets belly really hot with heat gun then touch’s it with pine sap and it melts right in.

Sorry I’m not talking fire hardened here, just trying to give something to compare. Thinking it might really help hickory.

Bjrogg

From: Bassmaster
Date: 25-Mar-22




Helps elm,and white Oak also ,but to a lesser degree. Going to try some blue beech, and hop hornbeam next.

From: Stickbow Felty
Date: 07-Apr-22




Clay Hayes has a new video on fire hardening

From: Stickbow Felty
Date: 07-Apr-22




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6IecN9qf64

From: Onehair
Date: 21-Apr-22




I have made a few after watching the video several times. Controlling the heat is tough. You can't get the same results with a heat gun according to the video. You can certainly burn up a good bow blank if you get distracted.

From: Bassmaster
Date: 22-Apr-22




Being able to make a finished quality wood self bow from a green sapling to a finished bow in such a short period of time is the biggest advantage of this system to me. No sealing, and seasoning involved.

From: badger
Date: 22-Apr-22




If I ever get back into making bows which I doubt I will there is one method of hardening I always wanted to perfect. This would primarily be for boo backed bows. I would like to find the temperature that a particular smell starts coming out of the wood.( I think it is around 260 degrees.) It smells like something might be melting. But anyway I would heat treat a board like that and hold it at the temp for maybe an hour or so before I cut it up and used it for belly lams on boo backed bows.

From: Live2Hunt
Date: 22-Apr-22




I've always wanted to make a tri-lam bow. I bet it would work great to heat treat the thinner laminations prior to gluing up. Wish I had the time to try these things, hopefully soon.

From: Jeff Durnell
Date: 22-Apr-22




Badger, that sucks you dont make bows nowadays. You had potential :^)... should have paced yourself. Saw it right off :^)

Live2hunt, I've made many trilams. They're great. But I have yet to try, or need, heat treating lams prior to glue up. I'll keep it in mind though. Food for thought.

From: Runner
Date: 22-Apr-22




Heat treated bamboo is well known as a core material.





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