From: medley
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Just curious if there is anybody out there that has shot an ilf bow and didnt care for it.
I believe I am going to try it out. Leaning towards a tradtech apex riser(waiting for it to be available)
Whatever riser I choose, it will probably be wooden, and I definitly want to shoot of the shelf.
Just wanted to hear the "cons" if any exists.
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From: ky_hunter
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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i`ve yet to find a "con" to my hoyt excel and the wifes samick mizar. far as i`m concerned ilf is the way to go.
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From: Zman
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Try a Morrison riser and Carbon/Foam limbs. Or his bamboo limbs.
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From: medley
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Also wanted to say that I am interested in a hunting setup, but would like to hear from anyone.
Also, if anybody can give performance examples, that would be great.
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From: ron rector
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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I have had a trad tech pinnacle for about a month now and have no complaints whatsoever. Its 40# @ 28" and shoot a 400 gr arrow l67 fps. It quiet smooth and all for less than five hundred dollars. I have had some of the best of bows and find this bow shoots as good as any of them.
Ron
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From: Juan Matos
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Speaking of women; once a woman started inserting her pinky finger(use your imagination) and I definitley Didn't like it! I was like; Woah, what the hell are you doing?
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From: yorktown5
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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I wrote a small book on vintage bows. Love them. But very few have matched and exactly zero (out of about 50 examples to compare) have been more consistently accurate than my two ILF bows.
Main reason is that the specifications of any bow other than ILF is somewhat fixed and the archer to some degree must adapt to the bow. With ILF I was able to completely adjust the bow to ME. Made all the difference.
Rick
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Juan, Really, what the &*^%?
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From: jhelton
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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I dont care for the looks of most of them, but as far as usefulness... hard to beat them.
J
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From: Zman
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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What about the looks you don't like?
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From: Zman
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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From: ron rector
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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We have the best of both worlds. For those that want beauty and have the money you can buy a Morrison or Blacktail, or if you can't afford that much you can buy a tradtech and have excellent performance as well.
Ron
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From: Lil' Okie
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Zman..that is a looker!!
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From: WRV
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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I have shot Zman's Morrison and it will smoke an arrow!! A real looker too. I'm trying to decide now what wood combo to order mine in......Randy
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From: Bill C
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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The shooting qualities of an ILF will be limited only by the quality of the limbs you put on any particular riser. The best limbs I have shot are Win&Win and Border. Can't say pros or cons about too many others as I have only shot Hoyts which did not measure up to the ones I alluded to.
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From: carpenter
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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I will take a one piece longbow thanks.
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From: freaknyellow
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Shot a lot of them at Denton hill and many were good bows that shot good but I wasnt blown away by any and dont feel any need to sell any of my bows to buy any of them. I guess I'm just not trendy. My two shooting buddies did find that not all ILF limbs fit all that great in all ILF risers or shot as well in some. That may be something to look at for those going the ILF route.
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From: Zman
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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No. Not really needed. I put them on when I first got the bow. I have two sets on all my bows. Just habit I guess. It is quiet though:)
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From: Tatersalad
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Shot a Hoyt buffalo and never liked the fact that when it was unstrung the limbs were all floppy and could basically fall off. I just can't image that it doesn't end up making noise or creating a problem...with the loose fit.
I know i lot of guys on here that i respect say nothing but good things about them but i can't get my little pee brain around the loose fitting limb pockets...sorry....I'm being honest.
Michael
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From: Bill C
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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The limb fittings on the original DAS and the current DAS Dalla are different and are not at all "floppy" on the riser when unstrung. They are much like a regular 3 piece take down, in that regard.
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From: ga bowhunter
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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they shoot as good as any other bow and do have some advantages being able to shoot anyone's limbs,here's my opinion if you have a longer draw like me you are really limited to long recurve limbs the trad tech limbs are good but i was really looking to shoot longbow limbs on my 15" onyx risers to do that you need extra long limbs to be smooth at longer draws so imo they are not as versatile as i had hoped and yes i have tried several other risers longer one's and din't care for them the top end limbs are expensive,it trad tech made some affordable extra long longbows limbs they are probably all i would shoot!
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From: GLF
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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The only advantage ilf has is that if you like one guys riser n another guys limb design you can use both in one bow. Some of the older ones were noisier, I dunno about the newer ones.
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From: DanaC
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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GLF, you missed one huge advantage of ILF - cost.
You can buy a good ILF hunting set-up, then add inexpensive limbs for fun/practice/form/target work at a fraction of the cost of a custom makers stuff. (Think 'less than $100.')
Or start with a medium-range target set-up and upgrade to a hot hunting rig as your budget allows.
For example, I bought a decent target rig for form work, then added a pair of better hunting limbs, which gave me a sweet 3D bow. Now I'm planning to add a shorter hunting riser, which will give me a hot hunting rig as well as another 3D set-up with the original limbs.
Could I do the same with two risers and two sets of limbs from one custom bowyer? Yeah, at about 60% more $$. That's a LOT of beer and pretzels ;-)
Dana (who holds the copyright on the term 'ILFonomics ;-) )
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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GLF thats a pretty durn good advantage! Thats the best part imo.
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From: English Setter
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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I've never shot one but some risers remind me of the early compound bows without the wheels on the limb tips,just my opinion. The new custom wood ILF risers are nice. I've read & understand the engineering of the ILF system. If I shot competive 3-D I would most likely shoot & ILF bow with much less # than I hunt with. I got away from all the hoop laa & c-bows in 87 with a 1-piece recurve & now shoot longbow & recurve.
If I shot free style target again it also would be with the new ILF bow systems.
I guess there all good. I'm looking forward to shooting one.
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From: medley
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Thats exactly why I am going this route. Options at a fraction of cost, upgrades as you can afford them.
Dana, name is all yours I believe lol
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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the hoyt buffalo doesnt take any other brand limbs? I figured it was ILF.
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From: rd2
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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4nolz' the buffalo is the same as the hoyt formula,the distance between the dove tail and the limb bolt is different. I think I saw a picture of some border limbs to fit the buffalo on here a few months ago though.
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From: carpenter
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Kevin,I just traded one for a Griffin,and feel really good about it!
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From: carpenter
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Nothing wrong with ILF bows,I just prefer 1 piece long bows.
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From: DanaC
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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Carpenter, if I could just have one bow, it might be my Martin Dreamcatcher, but I like bowS, plural. ILF gives me more bowS for my money. ;-)
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From: Dewey
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Date: 09-Aug-11 |
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A big advantage of ILF for the newbee is that they can get an ILF riser and low poundage limbs to start, and then get stronger limbs as they advance.
That's what I did, anyhoo.
Plus the Excel riser in "black-out" along with TradTech Black Max limbs makes for a fine looking bow, IMHO !!!
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From: GLF
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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4nolz I wasn't saying its not a great advatage, just that its the only one of any consequense. Guess cheap is a good one too tho,lol. Especially for guys building up to a higher weight. I had a hoyt ifl bow back when they first put em out. Problem was there weren't many other limbs for em other than hoyt n it was noisy.
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From: Bjorn
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Just like any bows-you will like some and not others; shoot lots and see what you like. The fact that they are ILF does not make the bow good or bad.
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From: hillbillyking
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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As everyone Knows Ima Bear collecter and shooter But The Morrison Cheyanne a riser wth Carbon limbs is the smoothest fastest niceset New Bow I ever have shot for sure !! !!
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From: JRW
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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I could never get used to the 15 adjustment screws. :)
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From: JRW
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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I could never get used to the 15 adjustment screws. :)
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From: Zman
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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I am so tired of hearing about "15 adjustment screws." What are you talking about??
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From: PineLander
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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They are criticizing Lee of Keep It Simple Archery, about his views on tech bows.
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From: yorktown5
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Last night I'm not sure what I was thinking, but just back from the range..well sometimes a guy just gets dumb luck.
I have 2 ILF setups. One an Excel riser with #45 Black Max wood/glass shorts. Cranked up to near max, the bow comes in at 62"- #45. The other is the Tradtech Black Onyx with their 45# longbow limbs making it 60"-51# at the lowest riser setting.
I always talked about interchanging the limbs, but really didn't want to change the riser settings and I had two great 3D bows to use this season (my scores improved dramatically BTW).
Over the course of the season I stopped picking the longbow as I seemed to shoot the 45# ever so slightly better as once in awhile the 51# would let an arrow get away from me.
Well with the 3D season winding down and hunting coming up, and wanting the smaller Onyx riser to go with the short Black Max limbs for a 56" Hunter, last night I made the swap.
The Hoyt Excel with the longbow limbs is 66" and the bow pulled the same 51# as the limbs did on the Onyx. But the short recurve limbs on the Onyx riser drew just 43#...a bit less than I want for a hunting bow and just the opposite of what one would expect to happen as poundage should have gone up slightly (variations in the amount of deflex from riser to riser WILL affect how a riser-limb combo actually weighs in)
The result is a 66" longbow a bit heavier than I like to use in 3D and a 56" recurve a bit too light for my hunting preference.
Here came the "Eureka" moment. I backed off on the draw weight of the Longbow and screwed down the settings on the recurve until both drew the same 47# @ 28". Took a little trial and error, but I then kept tweaking tiller keeping poundage the same and got both riser/limb setups to the same slightly positive tiller.
Just back from shooting and after some minor brace height and nock set tweaks-- whooie! I now have two bows that shoot the same arrows to the same point on with the same sight picture with the same draw to stack length in an ideal weight for both 3D and hunting.
Can you just imagine what it would cost for a custom job of a 56" recurve AND a 66" longbow with identical shooting characteristics?
Rick
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From: damascusdave
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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I would at least take a look at the ILF set up from Bearspaw as well. They look awfully nice. Neil is a master bowyer. Only reason that I do not have one is that I am technically a recovering bow buying addict and that means that unless there is a really good reason, or I think that I may not get caught, I will not be buying any more bows until at least after Christmas.
DDave
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From: English Setter
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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That's a good reason...DDave I like the ,or I think that I may not get caught! LOL I'm trying to get my wife shooting so she will understand...I think?
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From: Babysaph
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Can't you get new limbs for most takedowns?
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From: carpenter
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Thanks Kevin! I am just old and set in my ways. I did try em though. carpenter
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From: medley
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Yes babysaph, after a long wait, hefty bill (most times), and no adjustment. Meaning no range in draw weight.
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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I think the 15 screw thing is more of a running joke than a jab.Besides there are only 14 screws and a nut holding the bow.
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From: Andy Man
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Honestly , have tried them, Not for me
Just like my one piece recurves and longbows better;; they work fine for what I do and just like a one piece bow beter
U asked
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From: tabbender
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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I tried to not like them but it didn't work.
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From: medley
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Date: 10-Aug-11 |
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Thanks andy man. Yes, I asked.
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From: virginia
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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I feel like I have been in this discussion 100 times over the past 40 years. For the question I did shoot a Hoyt buffalo and liked the shooting charactoristics a great deal. I know it is not an ILF, but the principle is the same. I then watched 3 people shoot the Korean versions on two 3 d courses, and have second hand stories about another friend that has one. The folks that shot them were very accurate and have had success in tournement shooting. They used target form, target rests, target arrows, and target slings. The ILF bows were too noisy for my tastes, and one of the ILF risers had a broken internal piece after a few shots. I think for the serious 3d archer the ILF system would be very hard to beat.
Having said the above, every bone in my body tells me to RUN AWAY as fast as posible from ILF for hunting. I would bet a months pay I (talking only about myself here) would not make it through two months of hunting without a catastophic bow failure with an ILF bow. I am speaking from almost 40 years of hunting experience. I could spend days telling stories of murphy getting into any crevice. I have won many bets and have had no end of fun over the equipment failures of friends with more moving parts (compound, release, sights, peep etc.)
Having said that I am VERY tempted to buy a hoyt buffalo and doctor it up to my tastes as a hunting rig. I think it could be a serious meat maker, for awhile. It was surprisingly quiet, even selfbow quiet, and very easy to maintain proper form and follow-through. On the down side it was heavy by longbow standards, cold metal, and too many barn doors for murphy to drive a truck through. I probably have too little self control to avoid getting one, but some day I will tell myself I told you so...... In the end I always come back to the mild R/D longbow modified to my tastes.
As for ILF, I have as yet seen enough to think the advantages would outweigh the potential for critical failure under extreme hunting conditions. If you like them, more power to you and I wish you every success.
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From: PineLander
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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I tried them, liked them for a little a while....
but came back to what I prefer in a hunting bow -
wooden recurve and longbow, the one-piece variety.
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From: REG
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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if you like 3 piece bows, they are great. You can interchange limbs if you want and modify the poundage 10%. Adjust the tiller if you want. Upgrades are possible.
If you want the look of a one piece (And I get that) then no three piece will do.
But for me, I really my Trad Tech black max Carbon limbs on the pinnacle II. I was going to wait for the Apex, but John talked me into a 19" riser.
I'm very happy.
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From: falcon
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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They shoot great and if you want a TD bow they are the ticket. I've got one but my 1 piece bows are more fun. I may keep it for travel.
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From: Andy Man
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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Like I said; just don't match the beauty of a onepiece; , At least in my eye, The one piece just feels better in my hand
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From: WillScarlet
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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No fair............custom Black Widow!
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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"Can you just imagine what it would cost for a custom job of a 56" recurve AND a 66" longbow with identical shooting characteristics? "
I did once have 4 or 5 bows on the go for different types of tournaments. Drove me nuts. I just want one bow, a backup to that bow, and sure some others I might pick up or have collected. But I only really want to shoot one bow at a time.
No argument about saving money ever saved anyone a dime. People in our society spend it all. If they like a certain sport they will dump their money into it. Some are frugal types who buy lots of cheap products, others just buy a few of the best. Nobody saves a dime.
I have one ILF longbow, and I like it a lot, but it still isn't my thing. I think it might work for one of my girls. Or if I get injured and can't handle my hunting bows any longer. At my age that does happen. I think that at 40 pounds they probably outperform many other platforms. But I am not there yet.
The reality in the US is someone is always teching stuff up which is how we got the comopound. A whole heck of a lot more shooters want to shoot compounds, and while ILF style bows are nothing like a compound mechanically, they have a chance of breaking into that lucrative market and making people a lot of money. It is what some people want.
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From: bwshooter
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Date: 18-Aug-11 |
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I have looked hard at them. If I had money to blow I would get a Morrison just because of his mastery of the craft. I have never shot one so what I am about to say may not be factual, but to me its totally logical.
I really doubt at normal hunting distances 0-20yds. I would see any great improvement over any other type bow I shoot. I shoot a selfbow I made. A Schultz style all bamboo longbow, Bear Green Stripe T/D, Black Widow TFII, Bighorn one piece and a takedown, last but not least a BP Palomino. I seriously doubt that an ILF bow would make me shoot any better at short range than I shoot the above mentioned bows. It's possible I guess but at the moment I would just as soon shoot the selfbow as any bow.
That's not to say a guy should not try or buy anything he has a mind to. To me ILF is just another type bow no better or worse than any other bow type. For hunting that is. For shot to shot repeatability for 3-d or target is my guess where they really shine.
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From: bwshooter
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Date: 19-Aug-11 |
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I never said anything about an ILF being more mechanical/complicated or less traditional. I said I doubt they show their true potintial in a most hunting situations at the yardages I will take hunting shots. Meaning the many bows I have do just fine even in their non adjustable form.
I used to be of the thinking that custom bows or the latest greatest was needed to gain an edge. My thinking has changed a lot in 27 years of hunting with a longbow and recurve. I can do well with most any bow at hunting ranges if I shoot it enough. Whether it's slow or fast, custom, vintage bow, or home made. Practice is the single best way to be successful.
I like the concept of the fine adjustments you can make on an ILF bow, but in my view at least for me I don't really need it. The point has also been made that for less money you can put together a fine shooting bow vs. custom bows. The ILF type does have more pros than cons it seems. If I was looking for a new bow I would strongly consider one.
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