NYERS - Please be aware there are bills currently expanding crossbows into Archery Seasons. Please contact your legislators and urge them to vote against this. I am NOT attacking crossbows or those who use them. They're just TOO EFFICIENT for the very long NYS bow season. The current xbow season is the same for muzzle loader. It should remain this way.

https://www.nysenate.gov/find-my-senator https://nyassembly.gov/mem/search/

Sorry, I'm not telling anyone what they have to shoot. As a matter of fact, I would rather a hunter use a crossbow than be incompetent with a traditional bow or compound and keep wounding deer

who says, crossbow user dont wound deer als.......

This post is clearly about the crossbow and therefore should be closed as all other crossbow topics are. The posted statement sounds to me to be straight out of the New York State Bowhunters Association who are vehemently against crossbow.

" A true bow is handheld and doesn't rely on machinery. LOL, what the hell is a compound? That is a piece of machinery as well.

I've seen some nimrods out there that I'd feel much more comfortable were they using something that they could actually hit the vitals with. And I do mean wheel-bow users.

You can't force someone to practice or pass an accuracy test. There used to be a proficiency option you needed to hunt some NY parks and airports/etc., but that faded away.

Archery season isn't an honor. It's how the state regulates the deer herd. You do you.

I won't allow compound bows or ATVs on my property and give permission to others who ask. Bow & firearm season. I wouldn't allow a crossbow either - without an underlying handicap. But that's just me.

I allow any legal weapon on our property because they are just people like us trying to enjoy the sport of archery. But that's just me.

ALL bows are machines; even the simplest stickbow is a combination of lever and spring.

Add cams, you have a compound.

Add a lever to cock the levers, and a trigger to the mix, and you have a very complex machine.

I’m against the proposal. It’s fine during muzzle or gun season but keep them out of bow season. Could be the death knell of the compound bow, maybe already is.

Are crossbows considered Trad. now?

Allowing crossbows during the regular archery season will not have much effect on those who who on private posted property.Worse case is a your neighbor will start taking a couple more deer before gun opens. I would be far more anti crossbow if I personally still deer hunted mostly on public lands.Allowing crossbow will bring in a large number of new early season hunters to easily accessible lands and will change the quality of the hunting .

I always thought crossbows shouldn't be used during archery season BUT with the current state of anti hunting and anti gun I no longer care what people use as long as "they" continue to let us use them. We should not be divided on what we use or how we choose to hunt as long as we can hunt and shoot. We should be united not divided as they want us to be and present a unified front.

Honestly, I think there is more wounding and loosing of animals with the xgun. Just because people think they have a rifle in there hands and are taking too long or too stupid of shots.

That's an interesting perspective Live2Hunt. And it might have some merit.

Sorry the thread should stay. It is 100% correct and the crossguns have no place in any archery season. Look at states that allow them and than try and say they do not have a huge inpact on harvest. I am sorry I will fight to the bitter end to say they should not be allowed period. People think archery(trad) or with a verticle bow is dying now and we cannot recruit new archers into our ranks than go ahead and let crossguns in and see how quickly are sport dies out!! Shawn

wait until they shorten your bow season because the take during bow season is too high because of crossbows... it's not super crtical in the northeast right now because we have a lot of deer, but out west it's a serious issue and could be here too. EHD wiped out a herd in my area this year. If that continues there won't be many deer around and the season will get reduced due to high sucess rates. bottom line to me is, it's not a bow, so it does not belong in the same season and treated the same as a bow. I don't care what you hunt with, but this isn't a bow and should be treated as something other than a bow. how about a blackpoweder centerfire rifle in the muzzleloader season? It's using black powder so....

Yup all boils down to money!! And lets not forget we live in a society where no one can be told no or disappointed. Sad but true.

Live2Hunt does make a valid point.....but..... I believe compounds with 50, 60, 100 yard pins invite the same mindset. Bowhunting is supposed to be hard.

You don't want crossbows in Archery season but it's OK to talk about them on a Trad. site. I guess rules don't apply to everyone.

It impacts us as trad bow hunters and non trad bow hunters! Craig is 100% right it’s about raising money by selling more tags even though state doesn’t need the money. I doubt there was even any analysis performed on deer numbers long term impacts etc. probably dicks sporting goods and others pushed the state and said you can raise $ with tags and sales tax on crossbows.

I don’t know how many who responded are New Yorkers , some I know are not. I am a New Yorker and see hunting numbers drop every year. So what if there is a bump in numbers it will only be temporary. And as as far as trad hunters I can count on one hand other hunters that hunt with a stick bow. We need the numbers up of hunters period, gun ,bow ,muzzleloader.

I doubt it will bring in new hunters. Just more that are already gun hunters to hunt during bow season.

Chairman, I'm not a New Yorker but we had the same thing happen here about seven years or more ago. I lose track of time nowadays. Where I live in a rural area I see no onset of them in our season, maybe more around cities where people are many and areas are few. Yep...every year we still will lose hunters overall, so the big issue in the future will be "how do we build our hunter numbers?" in order to survive as a force to protect hunting, or will we just fight with each other until no one is left to fight for hunters as a whole.

In Wisconsin it did not increase the hunters, it just increased the use of xguns by bowhunters that wanted to kill that buck they could not the years past easily. That is the only reason people want to use them during archery season. They can use a gun during the rut and have an easy kill out to and now beyond 100 yards. Don't say they aren't going to take that shot, B.S., they are advertised as such and people who feel that is a rifle in there hands.

my thoughs exactly

Chairman, I'm not a New Yorker but we had the same thing happen here about seven years or more ago. I lose track of time nowadays. Where I live in a rural area I see no onset of them in our season, maybe more around cities where people are many and areas are few. Yep...every year we still will lose hunters overall, so the big issue in the future will be "how do we build our hunter numbers?" in order to survive as a force to protect hunting, or will we just fight with each other until no one is left to fight for hunters as a whole.

I`m from New York and I agree that we should`nt be fighting each other... But what`s it going to be next? Hunting with drones? I`m not anti XBows but they are not Bows,... I feel if your handicapped then Yes by all means you should be able to so! Otherwise use them during Muzzle loading season.

I'm from New York and I am for allowing people to decide for themselves which weapon they want to use. I will say this I understand the opposing view. I might agree with that side if they included the high tech compound right along with the crossbow. I've heard all the arguments about hand held etc, etc,etc. Bottom line is that for the average hunter the compound is easier to shoot, is more efficient, and requires less commitment than a traditional bow. Sound familiar? It's the same argument used against crossbows from the compound guys. I had a friend that about 5 years ago actually hated crossbows and would not allow anyone to hunt his land that had a crossbow. Guess what? He's ok with crossbows now. Seems he can't pull his compound back any longer so now crossbows are OK. So many self-serving people out there. He's just one example. I have one more question. Phil Magestro why have you allowed this crossbow thread to go on when all other crossbow threads are immediately shut down.?

silver back wawawawa nobody can have a discussion you don't agree with poor baby

Ohios crossbow hunters kill around 50k plus deer with verticle bow hunters about 40k. Thats almost 100k without gun season. It took 25 years before it became noticable. But in the last 10 our public land herds decimated. We're allowed 1 doe in first half of season and our usual 1 buck. Last year on opening day my son and I sat at one of the few check stations we have left since computer check in. We only saw 14 or 15 checked that morning but most all of the cept a couple does were 1 1/2 year old bucks. Our young bucks are the new meat does.

I'm from N.Y. and I shoot traditional almost exclusively nowadays. If the use of crossbows were allowed over the entire archery season, the existing deer population would get decimated. In terms of over hunting, I saw the same thing happen back in the late 1980's in parts of Westchester & Putnam. The DEC has never correctly estimated the deer population and once the damage is done, the after effects will be irreversible.

Lamb, we can most certainly have a conversation I don't agree with. We can discuss the crossbow issue all day long as far as I am concerned. What I don't like is the inconsistency of shutting down most crossbow threads and allowing this one to continue. I as most all of us can follow the rules without any regrets but some of us have a problem when the rules seem to change and then change back again

Silverback to you have to draw, hold and release a xgun at a close animal to shoot it like a bow or do you put the xgun on a rest loaded and ready with minimal movement and shoot the animal like a rifle?

Why not throw the Air Bow into the mix as well? It fires an arrow/bolt at 450 fps. It is shoulder fired. Has telescopic sights and its usability and handling are probably easier to master theoretically making for fewer wounded animals.

Frankly, I think shoulder fired weapons do not belong in an archery only season with the exception of use by those who have a physical handicap.

I don't live in New York, so don't have a dog in the state level fight.

But I get the impression looking at nationwide data that the affect of crossbows on archery seasons is not something that is easily quantifiable on a national level.

Just as a for instance, crossbows have not had nearly the impact on the season and harvest in Texas that they have in some other states. And Texas probably has less public hunting land than most of the states that are represented here. As GLF mentioned, they have had a substantial impact on the deer population in Ohio. So there isn't a blanket solution. Then there are states where the use of crossbows has increased, but the harvest numbers have not increased significantly

The decision is based largely on revenue flow. And unless someone is willing to start a resolution to increase license and other applicable fee's in a state to offset the projected revenue increase, and unless the hunters within the state are willing to absorb that increase, the call for crossbow use in other seasons isn't likely to slow much.

Then there is the whole management of the deer population aspect. Hunters are purely responsible for the inefficiency of that part of the equation. Not taking responsibility in managing the herd by killing the type of deer the state wants culled, by not killing the number of deer the state wants culled, and on and on.

It's likely going to get to the point where there is only 1 open season period inwhich all types of weapons be allowed.

Although I agree that crossbows likely don't belong in "archery" season, do bows belong in "gun season"? They aren't guns, and the same logic that is being applied in this thread kind of applies in that context.

I like having the ability to use my bow in the regular gun season or muzzleloader season, but I could certainly understand a dedicated muzzleloader hunter having a problem with it.

I actually don't care what other people choose to hunt with and in a way find it rather odd that hunters using any method of killing game feel that they are deserving of a special time period to hunt that is exclusive to their choice of game killing implement. Effectively all the licenses cost the same, with the exception that in some states an archery stamp is required. The archery endorsement in Texas is $7.00. Does that cost justify my being able to hunt twice as long with my bow if I choose to bowhunt during all open deer seasons as someone who only hunts with a gun? I don't know.

fdp, I guess the thought that a Muzzleloader guy/rifle guy would disagree with hunting with a bow during that season is highly unlikely. It would be like a funny car guy being concerned of a volkswagen trying to beat him on the drag strip. My biggest concern is the bucks that will be shot off during a very vulnerable time of their lives. Bow hunting was allowed during these times to allow people to hunt then but not overhunt the resource at there breeding period. In WI if they allowed rifles during the peak of the rut we would not have the trophy class animals all over the state we have now. It would be a slaughter. I'm sure a lot of rifle hunters and some bow hunters would be giddy if they allowed rifles during that period. Well, actually they do now with full inclusion of xguns.

There are several states that actually have the gun season during the rut, so the vulnerability piece isn't clear to me nor is it really a valid argument. The idea that the archery season was established to run during the rut to decrease the vulnerability of the bucks isn't really logical either.

So is the thinking, based on the statement below "I guess the thought that a Muzzleloader guy/rifle guy would disagree with hunting with a bow during that season is highly unlikely. It would be like a funny car guy being concerned of a Volkswagen trying to beat him on the drag strip."

This is a competition thing then? The muzzleloader guy could just as easily make the case that allowing bowhunters in the muzzleloader season increases the number of hunters/traffic that is there. Which is one of the arguments that is always made about allowing other methods of killing in other periods of the season.

The statement of rifle during the rut I feel is substantial in states with high hunter population and smaller tracts of land to hunt. In WI it would be a slaughter. I had the worst hunt of my entire life last year bow/gun/ML seasons. But, I still would have had a trophy buck if I had a gun type weapon in my hands. In states with large tracts of land it would and is probably OK. Do I hunt with my bow during our stats rifle/ML hunts? Maybe if I filled my tag and can still bowhunt. But, during the 9 day rifle and 9 day ML I have a rifle in my hands. But, the seasons for those are the end or after the rut and hunting can be tough. If I had that rifle during the rut? No issue at all. Competition? kind of, if you are hunting with a gun and someone else is hunting with a bow in the same area you have the advantage hands down.

Monkeyball I hunt strictly on the ground, many times on public land.

I rarely if ever hunt with a rifle of any kind, during any open deer season slot.

It actually is about competition for the most part in the context of this thread since nearly all the responses mention increased traffic in the woods. Even yours.

It is only about money from the standpoint of the states.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in the New York fight, and nothing here is anything but an individual opinion, and as is it should be, everyone has a different point of view.

I get what you're saying Live2Hunt. However, as you mentioned as well, it is a competition with the rifle hunter.

Like I said, just different points of view.

I'm not missing it at all......I just don't have the same perspective that you do.

In fact I stated that crossbows don't likely belong in "archery" season.

If what the increased traffic is carrying (rather than the increased traffic itself) is the issue then it either has to come down to not feeling like crossbows should be in the regular archery season, or that those that hunt with more conventional equipment feel that they are disadvantaged to the crossbow carriers (competition).

Can't be anything else.

And as was pointed out earlier, if it is just simply the fact that it is a crossbow the other hunters are carrying, then it is no different than hunting with a bow during gun season. A bow certainly isn't a gun. So those who are strictly gun hunters could make the same argument about archery equipment.

They are selling Airbows at sporting goods stores in NY. You let crossguns in and than it will be airbows(which are actually a air gun firing bolts. Sorry but they should not be allowed anytime or anywhere in an actaul bow season!! Let them have a week at the end or a week at the beginning of fall! Shawn

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