What is a good speed to be at for 3D shoots? I have a short draw of 26” and I’m shooting A 43# Toelke Whistler at my draw length. My arrows fly like darts...I’m shooting 600 spine Beman Centershots with 75 grain brass inserts and 125 grain point. I really don’t want to go up in poundage but was just curious what my speed should be to help with yardage estimation. Yes, I know...the right answer is practice, practice, practice! thanks for any input!

I like to shoot what i hunt all year around so my head dont have to think what I am shooting. since i am shooting 47# I like at least 9.5 grains a pound shooting 29 inch 500s with 175 grain tip and 100 grain brass insert. Just my thoughts.

Speed is less important than accuracy. Most shoots don't have long enough shots for speed to be very much of a consideration.

As far as what is easier for you to estimate yardage, that's a you thing.

Sounds good...that’s where the practice comes in. I know I knew the answer I just needed a little nudging! I just started with traditional and am really enjoying it.

As fdp said, if you don't shoot over 30 yards speed is a lot less important than how well you shoot the bow. Speed is way overrated and most people should put it wayyyyyy down the list until they actually learn to shoot well. If you are a great shot, then you can worry more about the other stuff.

I do not change anything on my hunting setup to shoot 3D You answered your own question, practice practice practice lol

Yeah, whatever speed your eye is calibrated too!I find for my low split anchor, speeds on the low to mid 170's to work best at normal target ranges, if you shoot 3 under and use your tip to aim then faster speeds could be advantageous.

Agree with George above. From a different angle, I usually travel at 70 mph on the way to a 3D shoot. :)).

The flatter you can shoot that arrow the less those yardage mistakes show up.I think you can have both speed and accuracy if you really want it bad enough.Now after saying that I use my hunting setup for both ;)...If I was serious about shooting 3d(as I use to be) and not to concerned about penetration I would diffidently try to flatten that trajectory out by lightening up my arrows...

I'm currently shooting a Toelke Whip which is around the 40# mark at my 26.5" draw length. Does speed help with 3d? If you're shooting for 11s it sure does buy you a bit of forgiveness if you misjudge yardage by a yard or 3. As you can see by results below the heavier 430 grain arrow clocking 157fps had a variance in trajectory points of 17.5" between 10-30 yds, while the 350 grain arrow going 165fps, had only 12" of variance. So in theory the 350 (or even lighter) could be a more forgiving arrow. But in my case ive ingrained the arc of the heavier arrow and its more natural to hold a bit higher for the 30 yard targets. Plus i prefer the 430 grain arrow for hunting and that's my main purpose shooting 3d. Also I don't hate the tightee gaps out to 25 that the heavier arrow yeilds. Ive shot some coarses with ultra heavy arrows and learned a bit about arrow weight and range estimation out past 25 yds. Now before anyone gets upset-- the info listed below is not meant to be a scientific study--- just me shooting. Just wanted to give an example of what different arrow set ups would yeild. My advice-- find out what works best for you-- sounds like you've already made a great decision on bow choice!

3/22/21 DT 700 27 3/4" 50 insert 175 fp 157fps. Tunes well. 430grs total. 10--. +9.5 15--. +8 20--. +5.5 25--. 0 30--. -8

DT 800 27 3/8" 150 fp 165fps. Tunes well. 350 grs total. 10--. +11.5 15--. +12 20--. +9.5 25-- +7 30--. 0

Agree with sqrlgtr my set up is fast but I also hunt with what I shoot 3d

What is considered fast for a trad bow?

Also, the faster the bow, the more critical a mistake will be on the shot, so act accordingly. Mostly, it's a personal thing, and back before we knew about FPS we still shot pretty well. Some guys can shoot fast bows well, but many can't. Just figure out where you fit in that.

My good friend shoots a 2 wheel compound barebow with fingers. His arrow is truckin', much faster than any of our bows. He generally likes to shoot one stake behind us and is admittedly, a better shot than any of us. He gaps and is quite deadly with that bow. In his case, speed is an advantage.

I've shot a lot of 3d and I'd consider anything over 170 more than adequate, maybe even a bit less.

I want a bow that is smooth and forgiving, not fast and twitchy.

Just FYI, back before the internet and subsequent archery forums, we shot all spring and summer and right up to fall with our lighter target bows. As long as you shoot your hunting bow a couple times a week, you will not lose anything. Matter of fact, you will likely do better due to form work. Lighter bows will shoot a balanced arrow just as fast as your hunting bow will the same, so trajectory, especially at hunting distances, will not be an issue. My hunting bow and my lighter target bow both have the same point-on...about 55 yards.

Don't concern yourself with speed. Accuracy is more important. Nothing wrong with speed though. Speed is a compound bow mentality thing.

A gt warrior 700 full length and 125 grain tip would work alot better for your setup. At 5.4 gpi, versus your current 7.0gpi.

I'm currently shooting a Toelke Whip which is around the 40# mark at my 26.5" draw length. Does speed help with 3d? If you're shooting for 11s it sure does buy you a bit of forgiveness if you misjudge yardage by a yard or 3. As you can see by results below the heavier 430 grain arrow clocking 157fps had a variance in trajectory points of 17.5" between 10-30 yds, while the 350 grain arrow going 165fps, had only 12" of variance. So in theory the 350 (or even lighter) could be a more forgiving arrow. But in my case ive ingrained the arc of the heavier arrow and its more natural to hold a bit higher for the 30 yard targets. Plus i prefer the 430 grain arrow for hunting and that's my main purpose shooting 3d. Also I don't hate the tightee gaps out to 25 that the heavier arrow yeilds. Ive shot some coarses with ultra heavy arrows and learned a bit about arrow weight and range estimation out past 25 yds. Now before anyone gets upset-- the info listed below is not meant to be a scientific study--- just me shooting. Just wanted to give an example of what different arrow set ups would yeild. My advice-- find out what works best for you- - sounds like you've already made a great decision on bow choice! 3/22/21 DT 700 27 3/4" 50 insert 175 fp 157fps. Tunes well. 430grs total. 10--. +9.5 15--. +8 20--. +5.5 25--. 0 30--. -8

DT 800 27 3/8" 150 fp 165fps. Tunes well. 350 grs total. 10--. +11.5 15--. +12 20--. +9.5 25-- +7 30--. 0

I fail to see the conflict between 'speed' VERSUS 'accuracy'. To my mind, reducing the effect of 'trajectory' is what makes speed matter.

Granted, a 'touchy' fast bow isn't going to gain you much, but a fast bow that you can shoot well can give you an edge. Especially when your distances are stretched out and uncertain. Even more so if you use an aiming system that is range-dependent.

Even us 'instinctive' shooters can gain a slight edge from a faster flatter-shooting bow.

Again, speed is no substitute for _consistent_ shooting.

Just buy any used bow. They are all advertised as flat shooting, hard hitting, and zero hand shock. It takes range estimation out of the equation.

I can say that speed is not important until you are on a hill with a lot of up-down lanes and small animals at 23 up to 30 yards. The error in the distance appreciation while shooting a 9.5gpp arrow will cost you points. One of the best shooters I know and multiple times provincial champion is shooting a rig who's spitting out the arrow at 200fps. He is also a very accomplished deer hunter not just foam shooter. Speed is overrated if it is what you are looking for, but speed can be the subtle addition that can give you the edge when you already are very good shooter. Squeezing all from your combo is never overrated.

By implication the OP is looking for a more accurate set up and feels that the faster arrow is going to give it to him. Now it might do that, but it might not help him at all.

I'm shooting a 48 pound elite origin at 189 fps. As much as others say, speed does help. Especially over varied terrain. I shoot Asa state qualifiers in NM and Arizona, and even though they boost Asa rules as far as target yardage, my 27 yards could be someone else's 30 yards. And sometimes, a slower arrow doesn't get in underneath over hanging branches. An extra four fps could be the diffence between a 10 and a 5.

If you aren't worried about speed, shoot a bigger diameter shaft to cut lines. Leave the .204 diameter and the .166 diameter shafts at home.

I also have a 53# Toelke Chinook that I plan on using strictly for hunting. I would rather trade it for a lower poundage recurve. I think if it was a lighter bow I would enjoy shooting it more. So for now I’m stating with the Whistler. Yes, I do plan on hunting with it and definitely see the advantage of keeping it the same for 3D and hunting.

This thread reminds me of the one about tough 3-D shots.

Our local club has some of the longest shots/highest average shot distance in the region, so shooting well on our course is kind of a Thing to have Done.

So you would expect that that should put speed at a premium here, but the thing is… With some creative course setting, a very fast, flat shooting arrow might actually become more of a liability than an advantage. Imagine, for example, vitals which are obstructed visually, but on a shot where the natural arc of the arrow will easily clear the obstruction and let an arrow (traveling at a typical speed) drop right into the tendering. In that case, if you are shooting a fast enough bow, you will have to shoot from less than full draw, which would screw up most people; especially those who pride themselves on their target shooting. People who like to screw around off in the trees taking improbable (but perfectly foreseeable) Hunting shots might find that to be a slam dunk.

And especially since so many people refuse to keep score anymore anyway… why SHOULDN’T there be shots on the course at a “fun shoot“ where are the only reasonable way to take that shot is from sitting on a stump or kneeling or canting your bow over the best part of 90°?

The draw length hurts you, but ypu can't grow longer arms. 3D was originally set up as a hunting practice. Somewhere along the line target guys seem to have taken over. Shoot your hunting rig. It is what it is. I shoot a high perfor mane recurve and get 188 fps with nearly 12 gpp. I can get 200 fps but I don't hut with a 9 gpp arrow.

A couple of the very best 3d shooters in the country shoot rather slow setups (low poundage and heavy arrows) to help keep their point on distance below the IBO 30yd max for traditional. Speed matters or not depending on the shooter and his style.

mostly my rigs run higher 180s & low 190s - arrows at near 9gpp. I have 28.5" DL and shoot mostly DAS rigs and ILF warfs with Centaur longbow limbs or 10-year-old conventional ILF limbs, Winex, Sky Conquest, Samick Extreme BFs, SF Ultimate Pro. I hunt deer & occasionally will take in a 3d shoot.

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