So, I was screwing around shooting yeasterday with 2 bows. My Wallace 51# tuned with 400 spine carbons and 175 grain points and my Bear Super K 50# @ 28" but my 31" draw sort of tuned with 300 spine aluminums and 145 grain points. I hit about a foot high with the bear to the wallace. But, when I switched back to the Wallace for a bit, I kept hitting 4" low with the setup arrows and for the hell of it threw one of the 300's on, dead center. This happened every time I tried. The 300's are way over spined for the wallace I know, but it makes me wonder if I am under spined with my 400's or the bow just does not like the carbons. Thoughts?

Could be a number of things. Most of which are difficult to analyze without being there.

Elevation issues aren't typically related to spine.

Is High/Low a spine issue to begin with?

Nock height plus the difference between 11/32 shafts and the skinny carbons needing different nock heights.

fdp, yes, I agree, that is why I thought it was odd.

Is high or low spine an issue to begin with?

Well, last year it was but I thought I had it figured out. I was slightly stiff using 340's and 250 grains up front, and slightly weak using 400's with 175 up front. They would both hit in line fletched and unfletched but I opted for the slightly weak.

I assumed it was the diameters, but it really surprised me that I could hit better with the over spined shaft compared to the tuned shaft. Makes me think I need to go back to the drawing board on tuning. This draw length really sucks.

I am no way any kind of tuning expert. I shoot samick clones 40@28 with a 28 draw. I shoot 500 carbons cut 28.5 carbon to carbon with 100 grain inserts and 125 grain heads. I add a 5 grain BH washer which seems to help. I have found that form and nock height have an amazing amount of effect on tune. A smooth release(I use a static release) gives me a TON of good smooth flight with those shorter 500's. From what I have observed there is a bit more latitude than what is generally acknowledged. Jes sayin'.

Every bow will shoot a range of spines. The closer to or past center the center shot measurement the more latitude you have with spine selection.

But Irregardless spine doesn't create elevation changes.

Your draw length isn't an issue. Folks been shootin' arrows with that draw length for a long time.

You just have to decide what length arrow you want, what weight head you want to shoot, and pick the correct shaft. Then fine tune the bow to shoot it.

It's no more or less difficult than tuning an arrow for someone who has a 25" draw length.

I am aware it isn't my draw length causing the issue, but the long draw length makes tuning an arrow to your bow more of a pain from my findings. I honestly wouldn't care as much if I shot for target only. But my main reason for shooting a bow is hunting. Strange things happen to an arrow that is not totally tuned to your bow when you put a Broadhead on the front of it.

The draw length comment was your "This draw length really sucks."

Truth is if the arrow is reasonably close, strange things don't happen unless one is shooting a bareshaft with a broadhead, or the broadhead isn't mounted straight.

If the arrow is any where near close, the fletching should be all that's needed to keep the back end from passing the front end. If it isn't, then it was never right to begin with. Fletching clearance/interference causing flight problems is a completely different issue.

Start by downloading a copy of the Easton tuning guide from their web site.

Then, just figure out what length arrow you want to shoot, what weight broadhead you want to shoot, what the actual draw weight of the bow is at your relaxed draw length and pick a shaft using the standard process. Add spine for longer than 28" arrows, add spine for head weight over 145grs., add spine for low stretch string etc.. And follow the solutions for various flight problems that are in the manual. And remember that the process involves tuning the bow AND the arrow in unison. Not just one or the other.

The tuning process gets really, really blown out of proportion and over complicated on here.

The accuracy required to tune a bow/arrow combo for hunting pales in comparison to what competitive target archers do to achieve the tune they want.

Live2Hunt, tuning shouldn't be mysterious considering the factors involved. Knowing what may work ahead of time is helpful, and knowing the bows and their variations is also vital. I doubt the Bear is cut inside center as much as the Wallace, so that's something to check. Tuning works on balancing the dynamics for a given bow/arrow, and draw length is simply one of those dynamics. To worry about what one bow does versus the other takes you away from getting the tune proper for each one separately and is of no consequence anyway....they are different bows.

Tuning 101 is the same as it was in 1951 except for what is available now versus then, but the process is the same and only archery forums tend to complicate them to a rocket science level.

I dunno...

I shot for years with arrows that were too stiff... MUCH too stiff, in some cases, and never had issues with broadheads shooting to a noticeably different POI.

As I learned how to get tuned properly, I found out that my BH were all about 75 gr too light... But with 5 inch feathers, it didn’t actually matter at 25 yards. So I know for a fact that I can get away with an arrow which is substantially too stiff, but I don’t think I have ever attempted to use anything that is weaker than I need.

But I would take Gary’s (GLF) word for it on what will work for you with your bows; he’s always operating in that DL/DW range.

Do I dare ask if you have bare-shafted any of these? (NOT with BH, naturally!!)

Before you attempt to chase down possible tuning related causes, check your bow for the possibility of a limb beginning to "hinge," drastically affecting the tiller-timing and power strike of a limb.

The arrow problem with a longer draw is the fact that most arrows are 32" at the longest unless I go to footed shafts and make longer arrows. So you only have 1/2" maybe 3/4" to work with for cutting. So it's basically mainly point weight to work with and to a minor extent the nock end, brace height and side plate to work with. Shorter draw guys can buy a 32" arrow and cut to there hearts extent to tune.

When you find a "tuning" issue that seems to be out of the norm like this one, always look to YOU first. Rarely is it an equipment related problem exclusively. We like for it to be, but it rarely is.

In your situation, rather than fooling with cutting arrows, why not just leave them 32" and tune the bow/arrow combo? It would save a kazillion headaches and you would only have one arrow variable to deal with which would be point weight. And since weight washers can be had in 5 grain increments the tuning would be very easy. The washers can be used on broadheads same as they can field points and the fine tuning can be done using brace height.

I don't even consider cutting arrows anymore, just not enough to work with. I guess the incident that started this thread got me thinking I was not as tuned as I thought I was. Believe me, I have all sorts of weight add on items that I played with. If you don't add more than 25 grains, it doesn't really seem to show any difference. I am really not sure why that Super K hits so much higher than my other bows though. I can change bows and stay pretty consistent in shooting (Instinctive) except that Super K. If it was form causing this it wouldn't have been so consistent as it was for multiple shots. I am going to be setting that Bear up with some wood arrows so I will play around with those when I get them. Thanks guys.

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