Got my first bow to low brace. Right now I have a half inch positive tiller so I'm scraping away at the inner 3rd slowly trying to get it closer to even. I have a question before I get carried away. The top limb (most character?)has a big knot at the mid way point that throws me off, so how important is that positive tiller measurement with so much character? Both limbs have knots, but the one limb bends pretty smoothly with its smaller ones.

String tracks dead center through the handle even with a little propeller twist, so not dead set on which limb is which yet I guess, but it feels good with the gnarlyist limb on top. So far limbs are even length. Hoping my pics post but I need better ones anyway so I'll take more tomorrow. Thanks for any feedback if my questions even make sense, lol!

Here's another pic if it will load, not a tiller pic I just lost a few I took throughout the process when my phone had low storage.

My supervisor goofing off.

This pic shows the big knot limb on the left.

That limb is 5.5" from the end of the fades to the string, other limb is 5".

Forgot to mention there is also a big knot on the back at the fade on the gnarly limb. Not sure any of these pics will show it very well.

If holds together and shoots good , you done good, 1st one.

That first bow has already taught you way more then you knew. Good luck with it. And enjoy the journey;-)

Damon good luck with both the bow and the supervisor! I wish I had that skill.

Thanks guys. Taking it slow, figured I'd post a thread to show pics and ask advice as I get closer to shooting it...

I'm sure the knot on the fade has a lot to do with the half inch difference in tiller, and the outer 3rds are stiff. I read where it's advised to prevent a whip tiller so I'm just kind of blending my scrapes into the ends as I work down the limbs.

This thing has a lot of reflex also. Really hoping to not mess this up, so hoping one or 3 of the gurus can have a look and maybe give a little advice, getting antsy to shoot a few!

Oh, top pic has the limb with the big knots on the right, I've been swapping back and forth a lot. Lots of twists and undulations going on with this bad mamma jamma.

Looks fantastic.. I would put it in tiller tree with pulley system with a nice piece of plywood or cardboard behind bow with horizontal lines every 2" and get limbs bending evenly at your draw weight and poundage and call it done... Shooting it will tell you the facts you need...

Selfbows with character like that don't always show even tiller top and bottom.... We strive for it , but it's not always the case.. Don't force it.. Let the bow tell you what it wants and needs..

Really would like to see pictures of unbraced profile and on the tree being drawn.

From here it looks like it has a hinge in the limb possibly where you said there is a knot. If there is a kink there in the unbraced profile it might be better than it looks.

It’s really impossible to say right now without seeing unbraced profile and a draw profile.

I’m glad to see you working on it. That’s the biggest step. Glad you have a supervisor there to.

Good Luck.

Bjrogg

PS. I second the tillering tree with a pulley and in line scale.

Thanks guys! I have a pulley and scale rigged up in the basement, I'll try to get pics up later today. BJ, that knot is making it look like a big hinge, but it's actually still thicker there. I left it that way for now in case anyone had advice to keep it that way to compensate for it. The outer limb coming off the knot seems stiff too with the reflex. Wondering if I should keep scraping there to make the bend look smoother out towards the tips?

Just follow the grain, It's just called character. it will play heck with tiller,but has nothing to do with performance. John

I like that, Stoner! I have a stave with a big knot hole like that, might be a while before I try to tackle that one ;)

I wish I knew. I've never done a character bow, but good luck. Looking forward to seeing it done.

Forget about tiller measurements at brace. They don't mean what folks think they do, especially on bows like this.

Nobody can tell you what to do with reference to your 1/2" positive tiller, can they? Even if you showed us unbraced pics(you still should), and told us what the measurement disparities were at rest, we still could NEVER tell you with any degree of certainty or accuracy what it should measure at brace to reach balance in your hands at full draw.

As I tiller a bow, I draw it from the spot on the string my middle finger will be and adjust limb strength depending on which way the hook drifts. I draw a vertical line on the wall that replicates my string hand middle finger's optimal travel perpendicular to the handle area. This is how it will travel if neither limb overpowers the other.. i.e. balanced. If one is stronger, the hook will drift toward the stronger acting limb. I adjust their strengths then with disregard for the braced tiller measurements. I tiller and balance straight bows and character bows all exactly the same. No difference. No guessing. Balanced is as balanced does.

We want the limbs to flex in harmony in our hands, that's most important. Five different bows can all be tillered to balance perfectly and the same in our hands but all have different brace height measurements because they have differences in their limbs' shapes, length, internal strengths, etc.

If you handed me your bow here in my shop, I'd start by putting it on the tillering tree and pulling it from your string hand fulcrum point both ways... try the positive limb as the top, then as the bottom, and probably go with whichever way balanced better, and make adjustments as needed from there.

Your limbs look really thin.

Your tiller has issues, too much bend here and to straight there. You need a tillering gizmo to straighten things out. There is a how to make and use on the Primitive Archer site.

This tool marks the stiff spots in your limbs for wood removal.

Gizmo marks;

Eric, doesn't it also tend to mark a natural hump even though it may not be acting stiff? Or miss a stiff acting spot because it's in a natural dip?

Thank you guys! Jeff, the pics make them look thinner than they are. I'm trying my best to scrape evenly with the way the limbs twist to keep them even across the width. They feel and measure good at least as far as that goes with all the dips and bumps (calipers-not that I wanna be technical, just curious to see if my fingers are feeling things correctly regarding the taper).

I've actually been pulling both ways with the hook on the string where I'll draw from, didn't even know to look for any imbalance. Great advice! I'll have more pics up later today unbraced and on the tree. Even if I end up lighter than I'd like, I want the tiller to be as good as I can get it.

When I am confronted with a huge knot I try to tiller so it does not bend as much as the rest of the limb. It should appear slightly stiffer than the rest of the limb.

Have fun.

Jawge

Thanks George, having a lot of fun learning something that actually helped feed and defend untold generations throughout time!

Id like to see pics of it on a tiller tree as well . good luck. my first few went on to the fireplace , don't get discouraged, Im sure you will build more!

Jeff gave you some good advice.

Eric’s advice about the gizmo is good for bows without the uneven reflex and deflex humps. I’m with Jeff there to. Unless Eric has some tips I don’t know about it seems like it wouldn’t work very well on that type of unbraced profile. That is if I’m imagining the profile correctly.

Bjrogg

There are parts of those limbs that don't have any anomalies, the gizmo will get them bending, they are dead straight now.

A gizmo isn't effective on roller coaster limbs, but I don't see that much roller coaster in those limbs.

I’m sure you k ow some tricks Eric.

I never actually used one of your gizmos, but I have seen a bunch of bows from people that did. They look very nice. Your gizmos have really helped a lot of bowyers.

Bjrogg

PS I probably should try it myself

Jeff, I agree with pulling from where the fingers will be but how is balance different from tiller. If you pull the bow and it is perfectly balanced wouldn't the tiller measurement be the same? >>>----> Ken

So after checking her out on the tree I measured tiller again and it was even? I guess I got to aggressive with the scraping, it's under weight now, but no biggie. The top limb is gonna be the knotty one, it pulls nicely either way. I may end up taking an inch off each end and working on getting the limbs bending more in the flat spots if that's advisable?

Eric, I'll definitely give the gizmo a try on the next one, thanks!

Thanks again gentlemen and please share any suggestions!

Dam fine job with a nasty piece of osage and very little experience. Very Good effort. It looks like the outer halves could move more next time. Keep at it and you will have this game figured out fast.

Yes, indeed. Very nice job. Keep up the good work. Jawge

Well thank you guys, very much appreciated! PD, I see that in the pics much easier than while actually pulling it for some reason. I think I'll start another one here soon, this is too fun!

Rounded and sanded everything, cut in a small shelf and picked up some finishing supplies for after I shoot a couple hundred times. Hoping it holds together, looking forward to seeing it all prettied up.

Dagnabbit. Sideways pics suck.

Pics are before sanding until my hands froze into crab claws lol. Labor of love as a buddy put it.

Shot a couple hundred times and now she's getting some wipe on poly coats. It's a little twangy, but I left the tips kinda thick on purpose and the string is an older B50. Making up a few cedars to shoot from it at the right spine also.

Ugh lol.

Tip weight wont play much of a role, B50 will. Try tweaking your brace height and making a low stretch string. Start just high enough to clear your feathers and bump it up a 1/4" a pop. Eventually you will find your tune.

Thanks, PD. Next up is learning to build strings. Pretty sure I have a FF or 2 at camp I can use for now. I'll mess around with it this weekend up there and get it dialed in with these cedars.

I really hope Marshall is happening this year, I'll be there no matter what.

I'm impressed by the lack of set on it in the unbraced photos. Tough stave for sure. I'd say you knocked it out of the park and then some.

Thank you, Howard!

Nicely done Damon. I think the mid and outers could bend a little more but that’ll be for another one.

Sure hope the Marshall Meet happens this year to. Hope to see you in the pavilion.

Bjrogg

Thanks, BJ! I'll be hunting some clean staves and spending time learning all I can if it happens. It'll be my first time there.

Damon, I can tell you re going to have a great future as a bowmaker.

PM me your address and I will send you a fancy curly maple gizmo for free to help you on your journey. The ones I have were for an auction that I didn't get around to so I signed and branded them.

That is a signed walnut one in the picture, not maple.

Maple

I agree with Eric. I think you have a future as a bowyer. Look forward to meeting you someday hopefully soon.

I might have some HHB I might be able to spare. The Osage is a little harder for me to come by.

Bjrogg

PS nice gift Eric

Wow! Thank you very much Eric! PM sent!

Thanks to you as well, BJ! You rock too!

Oh, and I was told by a couple local guys that HHB makes a great bow, one guy showed me one he'd made that was very nice. He said it was stubborn as to heat corrections, etc...

HHB makes a fine bow. Ive never noticed it being stubborn? Sometimes folks like to kerf and then split. That CAN make a stave look straight when in fact it wanted to be split otherwise. Then when its time for heat shaping/correcting you are fighting it the entire way because its fighting the split forced upon it. Hopefully that isn't a bunch of muddy water :)

Made sense to this scatterbrain ;)

Finished up grip and got a FF string on, dead quiet at the shot and accurate out to 15. Farthest I've shot so far. Got one in the works for my supervisor from a belly split off a gift stave from Mr. Jon Stewart. This one should be slightly "easier".

Looks great. First one usually isn’t the last one

Bjrogg

Ditto on all what was said, very fine job on a rough looking stave.

Thanks, guys! Funny this came up, I had a post all typed up on my phone with questions about my 2nd one and lost my wifi connection out in the garage shop. Grrr...

Very nice work. The grip leather looks great

Thanks, Jay. That was actually one of the things I was most nervous about lol. Wasn't too bad, though.

Great job !!. Lot's of character in that bow! keep it up.

That's nicely done. For next time, what PD said about the outer limbs. BTW you don't have to use FF or whatever they call it now.I still use B 50. Make your own decision. Jawge

Thanks guys! Actually working on my 2nd an 3rd ones now, this is an addictive hobby.

Very good work Damon, and you have the best helper a man could ask for, and he's awful cute too! Must favor his momma!;^)

Haha! Thanks Wyatt! Gabe's a great help with anything, for about 5 minutes!

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