Quick sanity check! A 5575 Gold Tip (blem) is essentially a 400 spine, correct?

Correct. Although on my spine tester, Gold Tips usually run about a .380 deflection, but close enough.

you are correct.

Yep

Thanks, fellas.

Never could get the damn things to fly out of #52-#53, so I guess those’ll stay in the Heavy box.... at least ‘til I can cut ‘em down and put in some brass inserts & heavy points..... but they’ll shoot from my #62, I think ;)

Weird I shoot them from #46-53, much over that I have to go to a .340

and I shoot bows from 45-52# using nothing but 29" 3555/500s... you just have to figure out what works for you. I have quite a few stiffer carbons that I can't get to shoot the way I like.

These have some very long, aluminum inserts in ‘em, which stiffen them right up, I suspect.

And at my arrow length (27 3//4”), I’ve never been able to shoot a 2117, either, and get good flight.

I’m gonna guess you shoot heavier points and/or longer arrows than I always have.

Guess I was wrong, thought they 340's, oh well. Lol

You know, I've never been one who is convinced that an insert will stiffen an arrow.

It just doesn't seem logical to me that the arrow shaft would bend 3" from the end.

I’m inclined to agree with you, which is why I’m curious what I will find out if I go lopping off a couple inches and putting in a much denser (and coincidentally shorter) insert instead. It’s 5 arrows; if they end up too stiff.... Flu-Flu time.

BowAholic x 2

When we say 5575 is a 400, what does that mean? Upper, lower, or middle range? a 20 pound range is what would have at one time been 10 easton shafts? Another weird thing I notice on the charts is that the longer the shaft the wider the range of weights a given arrow spine fits. Doesn't sound right, but I guess it is what they have to offer.

I never was able to get them to tune out of my 50 lb bows either always had to go to the 5575/500s

5575/400 spine are best for bows above 54 lbs depending on depth of sight window. The numbers 5575 mean nothing to trad shooters however and they generally peter out around 60lbs.. again depending on the depth of sight window.

A bigger factor however is the length of the shaft. By cutting it shorter, you stiffen it up quick. Using point weight is not a great way to make up for arrows that are too short. It does work, but it takes a significant amount of point weight to make up for a 1/2" of shaft removal.

There are of course other factors that determine necessary spine, but most of which come from personal idiosyncrasies.

I look at thousands and thousands of bows each year and wonder how the people who shot them didn't ask themselves " Huh, I wonder why my rest keeps getting wore out?" Or, "I wonder why I'm so special that I need something completely different than what is main stream?" "I guess my sage is just so much faster than everyone else's bow!"

Things to remember: With a properly tuned arrow/bow, you will likely never or rarely ever have to replace your shelf or side plate. Also, you should be able to shoot the same arrows for years without wearing out the feathers.

Will every arrow fly down range perfectly straight once you've achieved "proper" arrow tune? only for those of you who have perfect form..

BigJim

"Will every arrow fly down range perfectly straight once you've achieved "proper" arrow tune ? Only for those of you who have perfect form.."

Man that whole post should have opened some eyes, and that last paragraph probably hurt some feelings.

I think one of the main issues we have is that traditional shooters cut their arrow shafts to about 1/2" longer than their draw. Modern shooters leave carbon shafts full length. Dynamic spine changes fast with length changes. I DO NOT want a long arrow sticking out where it gets in my field of vision and messes with my instinctive "point". My arrows are cut off. Others, who use their arrow as a sight pin want the long arrow. Carbons, which have very little shaft weight, work well this way. It's all how you shoot.

Actually the length issue isn't that big a problem. The problem is that so many folks don't understand deflection numbers, don't understand how the deflection of a carbon arrow relates to the deflection of a wooden arrow, (which is what most are trying to emulate) they don't understand the affects that changes in length make (as you inferred Matt B) and quite frankly they don't want to learn.

So the easy way is to just get an overly long shaft and cut it till it flies as well as the archer can shoot it, or choose a certain length of shaft and keep hanging weight on it till it flies as well as the archer can shoot it.

“ I look at thousands and thousands of bows each year and wonder how the people who shot them didn't ask themselves ‘Huh, I wonder why my rest keeps getting wore out?’ Or, ‘I wonder why I'm so special that I need something completely different than what is main stream? ‘I guess my sage is just so much faster than everyone else's bow’!"

ROFL, Jim!

I think the fact that a lot of people don’t actually shoot the same draw length that they think they do probably has a lot to do with it. As noted on another recent thread, if I maintain good “target“ form, I draw about 4 inches longer than if I shoot in the “Asbell” style, which is enough to put me off by 12 pounds to begin with. Then if I start adding 5 pounds for this and 5 pounds for that, next thing you know I’m off by 20-odd pounds, and I stand there wondering why the hell my arrows fly sideways???

“ So the easy way is to just get an overly long shaft and cut it till it flies as well as the archer can shoot it, or choose a certain length of shaft and keep hanging weight on it till it flies as well as the archer can shoot it.”

You say that is if that’s a Bad Thing…. LOL

Is this cheating? I figure if I can get this at 30, it’s time to fletch ‘em up and start learning how to do my final tune via brace height adjustments...

I will say, though… When you go to a catalog that’s about as thick as a small town phonebook used to be, and you run across a Spine chart like this one, it’s no wonder that people have trouble figuring it out…

GF, it really ISN'T that complicated if folks would learn to use the deflection numbers to arrive at the arrow they need. Regardless of the length they want it or the finished overall length they are shooting for.

But, folks have no desire to look at the AMO manual for instance to see what type of deflection should get them in the ball park for a particular arrow length/draw weight combination (and that hasn't changed in years). They have no interest in understanding, as has been said many times on here (and yes, I am one of those who mentions it often to the dismay of many) how to convert the number in the chart you have up there into the wood equivalent. And it is VERY simple. It's just that for some reason folks have some kind of allergy to doing that kind of thing. Many times stating that there is "too much science" involved or something to that affect while using arrow shafts that are made from the most modern space age material and shooting them out of bows that are also made from the latest most modern materials (for the most part) and using the latest most modern string material.

Heck, the same thing can even be done using one of the on- line spine calculators by plugging in different lengths and different weights and taking a look at what affect it has on the dynamic change.

"So the easy way is to just get an overly long shaft and cut it till it flies as well as the archer can shoot it, or choose a certain length of shaft and keep hanging weight on it till it flies as well as the archer can shoot it.” I'm not saying that is or isn't a bad thing for you or anyone else, but it is a bad thing for me because I'm not doing it unless I'm trying to come up with a particular arrow configuration for a particular use environment and a particular set of conditions. I look at arrows and the configurations of overall length, overall weight, and so on much differently than many/most.

“ It's just that for some reason folks have some kind of allergy to doing that kind of thing. Many times stating that there is ‘too much science’ involved or something”

Yup. Science and critical thinking have fallen out of fashion these days to such an extent that when something doesn’t add up, people will just accept it or reject it according to what they think of the color of the socks the other party is wearing, rather than making sense of it and recognizing a substantial error when it’s starting them in the face, as with that spine chart I just posted.

I have no clue how the manufacturer could have made that mistake, and I am surprised that it got past the folks at the catalog, but it just seems like people would rather say “well, that’s the way it is“ than to take a few seconds to figure out that something just Doesn’t. Add. Up.

And then when you point out that they are swallowing, whole, a mathematical impossibility (or something equally absurd), they will tell you that you’re just a “sheep“ too busy “drinking the Kool-Aid“ to think for yourself.

Indeed.

When I started shooting my recurve, I went to the only archery guy in town. He didn’t ask any questions, but he “set me up” with $100+ worth of 28” or 29” GT 55-75’s. After shooting them a bunch and going back and asking why they corkscrewed to the target, he told me “You have to play with them”.

I eventually found this site and learned the basics of tuning and learned I needed an anchor (or anvil, depending on the post) on the front of my 55/75 arrow to make it work with my set-up.

Those arrows are fine arrows, but they aren’t worth a damn on the wrong bow! Lol I still have some on top of my freezer in the garage. One day I’m going to make them into shop table arrows.

I’m going to guess that was supposed to say “shootable“…

I think I will be able to put mine to very good use with my heavier bow… For which I now have probably a lifetime supply of arrows, since I don’t plan to adopted as my daily shooter. And here I was looking forward to making up woodies for it!

I guess I had better figure that out before all you guys get too old to be able to shoot the heavier spine arrows, so I will have a chance to trade off the surplus!

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