My Son and I were talking shooting styles, and He inquired about Paul's great shooting ability, in which I thought that He shot split, and had a high anchor, but I'm not sure. Was Paul an "instinctive" shot, or did He shoot gap? We would appreciate any information on Paul's shooting style. Thanks, Brian...

He was an instinctive shooter that used plastic vanes on his aluminum arrows and shot them from an elevated rest.

Drew past his anchor then came forward and settled in.

There is, or was a lot of information on this site related to that subject.

Fdp is correct.

I would gladly go back to the archives to find that info., I just don't know how to do that, Thanks Frank for the information You provided, Brian...

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=52869&category=88#4594768

How can your shoot good without gapping ??

Can’t pull that up

Dr. J.R.,

Like a lot of posted links here, you'll have to close the gap between the ? and threadid.

Thanks 1buckurout... I was not sure that link would work, but I just put in Paul Schafer in the search bar up top and hit Keyword. Then scroll down to the thread from 2019 about Paul’s shooting style. Lots of good info.

Gene Wensel stated in an article he wrote about conscious aiming that Paul “referenced the tip of his arrow” while aiming. Several of his close friends have corroborated that. I believe the “instinctive” part of his aiming was that he knew yardages extremely well and his subconscious calibrated those but Paul was conscious of the arrow as he shot. Some folks call it gap-stinctive.

If I recall Gene gaps, and Barry does not and is the better shot, as it happens. Both Barry and Paul have shot lions off people, or at least in Barry's case shot one trying to get on. Actually, those two have a very interesting record there. Not all bowhunting is ambush and non-reactive. Maybe trad shooters need one shoot to live scenario in each 3D.

If you read what Gene said - of course Paul was seeing the arrow. So maybe it was instinctive gap. But he said Paul visualized the arrow going down a funnel to the target.

he could have been talking about how he lets his "float" settle subconsciously.

Or its also possible he was using a very different way of aiming. One where you visualize the flight path rather than the gap. (Try it sometimes -its a fun way to shoot but probably require extreme coordination to be very good with)

Try this http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm?threadid=52869&category=88#579261

Since we can't ask Paul the question any interpretation of how he did or did not aim is purely supposition no matter who's interpretation it is.

This what Paul Brunner and Gene Wensel said about Paul's shooting style

" I hunted with Paul for 15 years and lost thousands of T-Bone steaks to the man while "stump" shooting on the way back to a bunch of different camps. Heck, he even wanted to start shooting for dates with my daughter, but I was way to smart for that! Schaf shot aluminum arrows over an elevated rest. We had some heated arguments about my use of wood...always friendly, I might add.

He did draw slightly past his anchor point and then "settle in" to his anchor. Each time he did this, one of his elbows "popped". It was a cool noise...probably caused by some old football injury.

He did not shoot three under and his anchor point didn't seem all that "high" to me.

Point of aim/gap shooting??? I'm not even sure what you mean, or what you THINK you mean. Schaf just looked at something and then shot it! He used the same technique that a skeet shooter or good wing shot uses. Look at your target and your eye is subconsciously in line with the "barrel" or arrow shaft. He didn't have some magic formula or special way of aiming.

I shoot the same way and I don't think about anything but the spot I have chosen to hit. I don't think yardage...neither did Schaf. You look at a spot, drill a hole in it with your eye, and draw and release.

What Schaf did have was an unbelievable hunting ability and tremendous hand-eye coordination. He was the finest hunter and shot at animals I have ever seen. I seriously doubt that this world will ever again see his equal as a pure bowhunter...and that includes some of our current "Heros".

Too Short

Gene Wensel Since I was the one who apparently started the rumor that Paul Schafer used a high anchor, I feel I need to clarify that statement. Ric Anderson is right on the money. He anchored with his middle finger and because he used an elevated rest and cocked his head, it did get the arrow shaft closer to his eye. His shooting style was not pure instinctive in my definition, as he held at full draw too long. By the same token, in my opinion he did not gap shoot either. He told me once he imagined shooting his arrow down a long funnel or tube into what he wanted to hit, if that makes any sense to you. I probably should have questioned him further on it but that is what the man said and I didn't ask. The first Schafer bows were all one piece. My first one came without any rest. I shot it off the shelf, then went to an elevated rest. It shot much better with the elevated rest, which lead me to believe Paul more than likely tillered most of his early bows for elevated rests. I have video footage of Paul shooting a mountain goat. He seems to hold at full draw for about a second even though he had very little time to shoot. I also have video footage of him doing penetration tests on Ted Jaycox's cape buffalo two days before Paul killed his own. Please don't ask me to make copies of the tape for everyone who reads this. A couple quick shooting stories. I'm sure others on the LW witnessed many more and many have already been told. Jim Wantulok once told me Paul was finishing up one of his first bows at Bob Savage's house. He was anxious to shoot it. It was late evening and light was fading fast when they stepped into the alley behind Bob's house. Bob had a deer target set up way up the alley. They started walking toward the target and were still a long way from it when all of a sudden Schaf stopped and started shooting. He was fighting last light and Jim told me it was so far that none of them could even see the arrows in flight. He shot five arrows if I remember right. When they got down there, all five were in the lungs! Ric was right as well when he commented Paul practiced at long range under the assumption that it would make normal shots seem like a piece of cake. Many years ago we were hunting at Southern Sportsmens Lodge in Alabama. They had set up a 3D competition. The final shots were at 80 yards. The only two people left were Paul Schafer and Noel Feather. Paul's arrow hit just outside the kill zone. Feather studied the target for a full half minute getting his range, then held at full draw for longer than it takes me to type this paragraph. Apparently he used the right sight pin, as Feather centered the target. As far as I'm concerned, Paul beat the man. Thats why they have classes in tournaments.

I have always been intrigued by Paul Schafer, his way of life and shooting abilities. It is funny how reading through the article's and writings of him shooting and the way he would look at it like a funnel to the target. I have always done it that way and would tell others that is what I would do. I thought others looked at me stupidly for it, but it is how I looked at shooting. Evidently I wasn't the only one.

bowmontana, you read the same information that I had read on the subject.

I have used the funnel analogy for my rifle shooting but not archery. But it referred to letting my float settle.

I sometimes shoot by envisioning the arrow path though.

My point isnt that I shoot anything like Paul Schaefer did(nor as well.) Its that different people use words differently making it hard to interpret them.

for those of you that have not read it yet, the book about Paul is a good one.

Written by Dr. Windauer

http://www.schafersilvertipbows.com/bookstore/kyxbp2yuqcqa9yf9g0 li9mhqiwccng

oz

Speaking about Barry Wensel he shot a mountain lion that was charging him while he was Elk hunting. And it happened very fast.

That makes more sense Bowmontana. I’d say he gapped

I’d say Gene asked if he knew

Sorry I hadn’t read that post above by Brunner. He just looked at a spot and shot it.

I’d say that either Paul or Gene had to be wrong as they describe 2 different ways of shooting. And it sounds to me like Noel Feather won. Lol I guess because he was shooting a compound

Here u go.

https://hungryhorsenews.com/news/2020/jul/08/new-book-follows-the-life-of- bowhunter-paul-10/

Justin

Thanks Fellas for all of the information that You gathered on Paul's shooting style, Brian...

After reading this I still don’t know how he shot. Lol

Like a lot of us, just look at what ya wanna hit and shoot it, sounds like a simple man, would’ve loved to meet him

Hope this link works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlGBbWRrFe8

Bob Savage told me Paul Schafer was the best "instinctive" shot he'd ever seen. I think what made Schafer a great shot was his physical strength. A person with exceptional physical strength will handle poundage better than a weaker individual. To a stronger guy, pulling 70 pounds would be like a weakling pulling 30.

Joe

I just finished reading “Silvertip” I recommend it to everyone.

Wait! Bob Savage did not say Paul was the best instinctive shot he'd seen. He told me Paul was the best heavy bow instinctive shot he'd seen.

Joe

"Paul said he didn’t gap Gene also said he didn’t gap. No one else on this thread knew the man. Why is it so hard to believe some people shoot instinctively? May as well face it, it’s happening every day lol."

Probably because Asbell redefined "instinctive" and it doesnt mean the same thing to everyone?

Also the funnel thing is hardly what most people describe "instinctive" as.

Im not saying at all that I know how he shot - but none of what I have heard suggests he shot in the new instinctive style.

Very few people can properly describe how they aim just as very few quarterbacks could tell you how they lead a running receiver so the ball drops in their arms. They simply do it and don’t worry about “how!”

The funnel thing, to me anyway, is just an image you create when shooting, not part of your aiming really. I have always done that shooting anything.

In the video clip of Paul Schafer shooting you really can see a very stable bow arm and follow thru, and the strength he had. I am not sure how heavy that bow is in the video, but he looks to be in total control of the shot. Intense CONCENTRATION creates the funnel.

I get a kick out of some of the guy's on this site, there mind set is "if I can't do it and you can't explain how he did it; It can't be done" There are and were many very talented people that have or had unbelievable skills. Why not just except it!

Bob

I instinctively made some popcorn a have dozen posts ago :)

Come on Gorbin I am gonna tell the truth I did not instinctively make my popcorn I gap timed mine and you know its gonna taste better with butter. LOL

I think aiming preference should be the last thing to be concerned about . More important is what led up to it. Just my opinion

I agree with Bob. Some of you fellas would overcomplicate a bread tie.

Do you twist clockwise or counter-clockwise??

Exactly. And which color is more traditional? If a person don’t use white or green then I just can’t see myself being friends with them. :)

Sawtooth I just love this repost "I agree with Bob. Some of you fellas would overcomplicate a bread tie." What's funny is they want to argue with Paul and Gene the guys that were his best friend and shot thousands of arrows with Paul.

Agree with aromakr and Sawtooth.

Old instinctive style was you look down the arrow and shoot. You dont intentionally try to line anything up, you definitely dont figure out a gap.

But you also dont try to put yourself in some sort of dissociative state where you dont see the arrow right in front of your face.

Nobody here knew Paul?

Visualizing a tube is not instinctive?

Bread ties twist clockwise?

Toilet paper peels off the top of the roll?

choosing not to look at your arrow is a dissociative state of shooting? What?

wow we say some dumb crap sometimes.

oz

Well it if you convince yourself that you cant se something right in front of your face ya its kind putting yourself in a dissociative state.

I notice your reframed what I said though incorrectly to make it sound unreasonable.

Im never said look at the arrow. But it is obviously there in the field of view even if your eyes have the the target in focus.

How did anything you just described differ from my definition of old style instinctive shooting"?

On a normal state of mind you can, focus your eyes only on the target. and you can be not consciously thinking about the arrow.

But in a normal state of mind you cant "not see" it.

Dartwick I did reword your statement, it fit better into my style of shooting. I do not know how I shoot, I just do what i was told.

look at the point I want to hit, and do not lose focus. I was trained that if you lose focus of the point, let down your draw and start over.

I do not see the arrow, "sure it may be in my view window, but I do not see it"

If I ever see my arrow, I let down and draw again, because I did not have the focus I needed to make the shot.

I do not see my arrow, or I do not choose to see my arrow. I choose to see my target.

Yes I met Paul, no he didn't teach me this shooting, I met him days before he passed away, but the people teaching me to shoot knew him.

oz

when I shoot 80 yards there is nothing but blue sky where the arrow is pointed I look at the target not the arrow.

Your subconscious mind makes use of everything you see and feel. You arent consciously thinking about the everything you feel during your shot - but if something that is normally consistent changes it can often mess up a shot and its the same for what you see.

It goes back to the skeet shooting comparison - many skeet shooters dont look AT the rib and they arent thinking about it. But if it were to change height their shot would change untill they adjusted.

And most everyone understood this until Asbell started convincing people it was possible to not see stuff sitting close to the center of your field of view.

Your subconscious mind makes use of everything you see and feel. You arent consciously thinking about the everything you feel during your shot - but if something that is normally consistent changes it can often mess up a shot and its the same for what you see.

It goes back to the skeet shooting comparison - many skeet shooters dont look AT the rib and they arent thinking about it. But if it were to change height their shot would change untill they adjusted.

And most everyone understood this until Asbell started convincing people it was possible to not see stuff sitting close to the center of your field of view.

And just to be clear. Im not at all saying Paul Shaeffer shot this way or that way.

Im just pointing out that "instinctive shooting" used to be broader concept than modern-trad has tried to define it in the 90s and aughts. So it hard to say exactly how he shot based on what people have said and quoted here.

And just to be clear. Im not at all saying Paul Shaeffer shot this way or that way.

Im just pointing out that "instinctive shooting" used to be broader concept than modern-trad has tried to define it in the 90s and aughts. So it hard to say exactly how he shot based on what people have said and quoted here.

everything

i am left eye dominant and right handed, my right eye doesn't do or see an dang thing..i anchor high kinda under my right eye.. i have no focus on my right eye...shoot pretty good..i shoot lefty too, and when i do, i look with my dull eye, right dominant, and my left eye drifts, and is useless...shoot pretty good..my two eyes don't track, and are out of alignment, and i shoot pretty good...i am an instinctive shooter, and if you have a cross dominant eye, you prolly are instinctive too, and if you dont, then you prolly isn't ever gonna know what instinctive shooting is, cause your good eyes wont ever let you know.... digest that for a drink or two..

I think everyone should just practice on what works for him or her,and stop worrying about how someone else shoots. What works for one might not work for another.just shoot and have fun. That's just my 2 cents worth!

Focus on the spot to be hit. Make a clean shot and hit the target. Never notice the arrow. Has worked for me over sixty years. Won a lot of shoots against some well known shooters. Killed a lot of game. Practiced that way for a life time almost every day. Works just fine for me. Is it instinctive ? I have no idea. I prefer the phrase practiced hand eye coordination and literally millions of arrow shot over a period longer than many today have been alive. Do I see the arrow consciously ? nope, that is why they call it focus on a spot. Simple unless you choose to make it other wise and overcomplicate things. There , done with that rant over some real ignorance of being told what I do or do not see or do.

Actually, I'm the only documented instinctive shooter who ever lived. I'm all alone at the apex of instinctive greatness. Can I prove it? That's a good question, and I believe I can. I shoot in the dark! All I can see is a dimly lit target when I practice. I don't aim down the arrow or gap or anything, as I can't see the arrow! Try seeing a dark gray carbon at night! I come to full draw, anchor by feel and look at nothing but the target, releasing when it feels right. Shooting in the dark is true instinctive shooting! Take them apples!

Joe

What Ollie and Arromaker said. And Gene and too short knew Paul but explain two different methods on how he shot

ever see a guy shoot from the hip with a 1911 45 ca,.and hit clay targets? it has been done..

Longbow, ever see Walt Wilhelm do the same with a longbow? Yep, it has been done.

guess I entered in a conversation I wasn't smart enough to participate in.

I have not been able to nor do I want to label how I shoot. I look at what I want to hit I draw, and release.

If I start overthinking that I am bored, and better go pick up my bow and practice it more and think about it less.

moving on to other threads, enjoy guys.

oz

I haven't had time to read all these posts but I think one reason for confusion among the troops is that many people confuse the terms "barebow" and "instinctive." A lot of people who shoot barebow will tell you they shoot instinctive when in reality they are aiming somehow. I can't verify this but I think Barry went over six months without even drawing a bow after his bypass and several healing issues. I suppose it could be like riding a bike but even after a long "rest" he can still hit the "O-Ring" on a deer's chest....if its close enough.

"MAY THE FOREST BE WITH YOU"

Man, I’ll bet 6 months felt like an eternity for him.

I probably should verify that Barry did not SHOOT a bow for six months but did in fact DRAW several. When I had my heart by-pass I went 3.5 months before drawing a 30# bow, then later to a 45# and then on to my normal 55# hunting bow. I knew a guy who tried to draw his 70# compound too soon after open heart surgery. He ripped the staples out of his sternum and had to have new ones installed. I wrote an article many years ago entitled "There's No Shame in Aiming" where I spoke of hand/eye coordination, that should be called hand/eye/brain coordination because many people are gifted with coordination while others have to train their brains to do something. I never could master dribbling a basketball while running down the court without looking at the ball. It came much easier to lots of guys I went to school with. By the same token, I was never beaten in Indian leg wrestling. Go figure.

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