when it comes to aluminum would you rather shoot a heavier spine and heavy insert/head combo, or use a lighter spine.

I see where a 2016 with 175 grain head spines about the same as a 2117 with 275 up front.

Is there a benefit to one or the other?

shooting deer.

Total arrow weight. What do you want them to weigh?

2016 with 175 point plenty of weight

plus the 175 point easily matched with 43 grain long aluminum adaptor with a glue on judo or glue on broad head

the 2117 with that kinda point weight over kill to me maybe if a lighter carbon in 400 series

just my thinking

I use both 2016 and 2117 with 175 grain points but for different bows

Depends 100% on how far you are planning to shoot at those deer and how you compensate for distance.

The 2016 + 175 is more than adequate mass for any deer imaginable and will shoot appreciably faster. Assuming you are shooting about #50 and a 28” arrow, that’s right about 10 GPP.

I wouldn’t take the 2117 set-up you mentioned without a damn compelling reason to do so...

Actually the OP didn't mention arrow weight or his use environment. The heavier could have some definitive benefits such as a more desirable point on distance, particularly at typical whitetail ranges. Seems most folks have more trouble shooting too high than they do low. The increased durability of the larger shaft as mentioned above and the possible increase in penetration.

The speed difference between the two would be a non issue at typical ranges.

But again, that's one of those cases where if you convince yourself it won't work it likely won't.

High FOC works just as well with aluminum as it does with wood or carbon. The problem is it's more difficult to build an ultra high FOC arrow with aluminum because the shaft itself is heavier and there are fewer components compared to carbon. Certainly can build them with as much FOC as wood though.

fdp is right. Many people worry about weight due to shooting 3D's. At hunting distances there is no difference.

Agreed. The 2018 is a mean shaft. Heavy and tough. If you can employ them to your good, do it. I love wood but the 2018 is my hogstopper of choice.

I like wt. 10gpp are more but also like a balanced arrow 13-15% foc. usally shot 530 gr total 14% foc goes straight threw and a shoulder shoot is still a dead deer.

Guys -

The only functional difference is arrow speed. Whether that matters or not is your call.

Viper out.

I have always found 2016 more accurate in my shooting with traditional bows. Your millage could differ.

“ I am pretty sure that high fox in aluminum arrows shown none of the benefits that it did in carbon or wood from the Ashby study.”

If that were true, then all the benefits of high FOC would be imaginary....

Can’t have it both ways. But as noted, the lighter the shaft, the easier it is to get to the high FOC without sights exceeding a desirable upper weight limit. The ultimate projectile would have 100% of its weight in the first inch or so. AKA booollitts.

“ I have always found 2016 more accurate in my shooting with traditional bows. ”

If that were truly the case, I would surmise that the 2016s are the only ones that you are tuned for! ;)

“ Many people worry about weight due to shooting 3D's. At hunting distances there is no difference.”

I suppose that would depend entirely on your definition of “hunting distance“. Absolutely NOT advocating the taking of shots beyond the individual archer’s demonstrated competence or in-the-moment confidence, but not everyone hunts where it’s not difficult to get a 15-yard shot opportunity.

IOW, the spine to mass ratio which is needed in order to achieve 19% FOC is/was not available in Al or Wood.

I’m pretty confident that it could be done with Aluminum, but you’d probably have to have a run of custom tubing drawn in order to get there.... and the resulting shafts would be too fragile to be of any practical use.

But tuning is the make-or-break issue; an arrow which has stopped oscillating and is moving point-on in settled flight will impact with its center of mass squarely behind the tip of the arrow and drive it straight through. If the center of mass gets off of the line of travel, then the whole arrow will bend in that direction on impact like a telephone pole tipping over. And a poorly tuned arrow won’t be flying with nock and point precisely aligned with the line of travel.

The lighter and stiffer the shaft and the closer to the head (read: high FOC),the less likely it is for the arrow to flex enough (upon impact) to move the arrow’s center of mass off of the line of travel. It won’t totally overcome a poor tuning job, but EFOC is something of a fletching multiplier, so it helps in that respect as well.

Come to think of it....

Maybe that’s why animals hit with big mechanicals seem to always run like hell - if the arrow bends around and whips them hard, why wouldn’t they? And FWIW, many years I saw some high speed footage of a mechanical being shot into a heavy beef bone; they were trying to prove how tough their heads were, but what really got my attention was that on impact, you could see the nock end of the arrow bend around so far that the shafts would snap. If you have ever snapped a carbon arrow in your bare hands, you know A) how much effort that requires and B) what a jolt that delivers to your hands. If you have never done that, A) DON’T and B) take my word for it that if you were a deer wandering calmly through the woods and you suddenly felt that sensation along your ribs, you would RUN!

Add in the fact that a lot of guys turn to mechanicals because of unsolved tuning issues, and it gets more and more obvious what is going on there.....

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