If you don't shot 3-under, please ignore. NO, I am not going back to split, tyvm.
If you do, do you find that a lower nock point, under the arrow, helps?
I've been using a brass upper and tied-on lower for the past few years. Works okay but every time the string rolls off my tab, the tied-on lower moves down a bit.
Yesterday the bugger came unraveled and fell off. I kept shooting and couldn't tell the difference. (Disclaimer - I'm coming off a short shooting lay-off, so form isn't 100%)
Yes, I've followed Rick's video closely. I've added glue to that lower point to keep it in place. It's still a PITA, so I'm wondering if I should replace it or leave it off.
You raise or lower your nock as needed for tuning Dana. Static measurements for everyone doesn't work with archery. Wherever you get the gest flight without any porpoising of the arrow, I have done both and can actually use the same nocking point.
I use a second tied nock under the arrow. For me, once it’s set up and not moving up and down, it’s peace of mind. One less area of concern when/if my shot/form are off. I have used glue/gel in the past, but someone recently told me that’s not a great idea. I never had a problem with it.
1st: GDS is correct and while I can optimize the nocking point for 3-Under?...I as well can shoot split or 3-Under as it then becomes just a matter of "how I pressure the grip"...I can go a bit low wrist and nail flight using 3-under or go a bit high wrist and nail flight shooting split...ad I'll go split once shot distances extend beyond 40yds.
2nd: Simply put?...Tie-on Nail-Knot nocking points are not as durable as brass but like you I only use brass up top and only on my BB rig...the wear factor and durability decreases depending if you're tabbing over the tie-on nocking point or?....just sliding your tab up to the bottom of the tie-on rather than all the way up against the arrows nock and before anyone has a conniption?... your index finger can still be touching the nock.
Tips: Leave plenty of slack/extra on both ends so when final tightening the nail-knot you have plenty to wrap around some pull dowels and really snap it tight several times HARD!
Then when trimming leave a good 1/2-3/4" to fire melt big balls on the ends and when you have them adjusted where you want them?...
Super-Glue is your friend...just a drop or tow to coat the nail-knot but not completly soak through the bow string itself.
It is all about tab/index edge pushing up the bottom of the arrow nock before starting to draw and the tightness of the arrow nock on the serving. If that's not always the same or the arrow nock is loose on the serving accuracy may suffer. It's up to the archer, but I prefer the second tie-on nock just as insurance.
Okay now it finally sunk in to my thick head.....you're talking of two nocking points, not lowering your nocking point. All- righty then....disregard previous comment, or as Emily Latilla would say.....nevermind.
Just as Jinkster put it --- you can hook your tab on serving just below the bottom nock set.
I always use two nock sets when shooting 3 under, only because i haven't figured out to use 3;).
Depending on the direction of your serving you can set up bottom nocking points that actually spin up toward the nock, reducing the chance that the bottom one will migrate down the string.
In all my year of shooting a bow, I never experienced an arrow dropping away from a single nock on the string, on the shot. I mostly just use a single one.
I'd say the arrow slips down the string for everyone that doesn't use two nock sets. They just don't know it.
As for the ones than unravel or move down the serving, next time tie it on in reverse. That way when it comes off your fingers it'll tighten rather than loosen.
I shoot two under (does that count?), used to shoot split but lost use of my index finger last year. Two nock points for me, both with two under or when I shot split. Another brass on top, tied on lower.
I've had some tied nocks wander, some don't... I'd just re-tie another one till I got the tension right. I like my mock thread to be just a tad thicker than my serving string, use a nail knot with 5 or 6 wraps. Leave plenty of extra at the ends so you can pull it good 'n snug, like Jinkster says. I leave just maybe 1/4" ends when trimming those ends down, and, again, let 'em melt down to the knot, and press with my finger to kinda blend it in.
Another thing that helps, particularly with unravelling, is to watch the knot as you tighten; you can actually see that the loop you're pulling under the knot is centered in the knot.
Have also used two brass nocks, nothing wrong with that if you want a one shot fix.
Be aware that if you shoot 2 string nocks, and three under you need some gap between the arrow nock, and the string nocks ,so that at full draw you don't get arrow nock pinch which can cause problems.
1buckurout found the video I was looking for to compare against this one I'm posting here where the difference between the two is the difference inherent of shooting 3-Under as follows...
The Split-Finger Archer: With a properly timed/tiller tuned bow can indeed get away with one nocking point without fear of the arrow nock sliding down the string beeeeeeecauuuse?...
"THE STRING IS BEING 'HELD SQUARELY' AS IT PASSES THROUGH THE ARROWS NOCK LIKE THIS">... |
whereas?...
The 3-Under Archer: is holding the bowstring in a position that causes the bowstring to pass through the arrows nock...
"AT AN ANGLE...THE STRING ANGLE LIKE THIS">.../
which wants to drive the arrows nock downward at the loose.
This is why 3-Under archers NEED TWO while Split- Finger archers can GET AWAY WITH ONE...and if you follow HH's teachings that one nocking point will be below the arrow nock and now you know this is also why?...
Beiter makes some rather pricey ASSYMETRICAL NOCKS just for the 3-Under/String Walkers out there as inside the nocks groove?...the wall the string pushes against is angled to compensate to the string passing through the nock at an angle (as opposed to passing squarely through the nock like a split-finger archers string does)
If archery has taught me anything?...it taught me that it's a real bad idea to speak in absolutes IF there are still techniques out there you haven't completely reseaRched and fully understand.
Hope I helped clear things up for at least some and?..
There’s so many different ways to tie on a nockset and all of them work well, I suppose. Here’s the way I’ve done it forever, it seems. It’s simple, quick and durable. I simply just “serve” a nockset on.
1) I mark the place on the string where I need the nock set with whiteout or masking tape. 2. I cut a piece of #4 nylon serving about 10” long; form a loop, and lay it on the string. Always put the loop toward the upper limb for the top nockset; toward the bottom limb for the lower nockset. 3. I take one strand and go around the string and the other strand, 5 times. 4. Push that end through the loop, and pull each end tight. 5. Trim and burn with lighter.
The good part is you can literally screw the nockset up or down the serving for fine-tuning.
I’ve never had one come loose or fail the last the life of the string.
I say definitely need both nock points for three under.. having said that, many don't use two and don't realize their arrow is dropping upon shot and bouncing off the shelf.. they adjust the single nock point until they get decent flight and are happy with it.
If your arrow nocks pinch the string and won't slide up and down the serving, you likely won't see much difference.
If your top nock is not correctly tuned.. (and i can't see how it would be if either your arrow pinches the string or you aren't using two nock points.. or both) then you probably won't see much difference.
If you use only one nock point and your arrow shelf is constantly wearing, than you need another nock point.
Definitely need two. The reason most nock the arrow above square. At release the arrow will try to go back to square, whether you know it or not George ;^) It is why many folks wonder why moving the nocking point is not giving the results they expect. Where ever they put it, the arrow is trying to go back to square if there is nothing to hold it. The video 1buckerout posted clearly show this.>>>----> Ken
Depends on how tight the nocks are on the string. If they slide easily then yes you need the lower nock. I shot 3 under for years with 1 and no problems but with the newer thinner strings and thinner servings yes most except factory bows original strings need 2 nocks. I like 1 nock if possible so I can put the nock to the string, slide it up till it stops then snap it on. My black widow and my bears work fine with 1.
K shoot 3-under. I use two nail-knotted kicks ( I use waxed sewing awl thread with 5 wraps).
My mock height is located where I get good arrow flight,AND point of impact at the distance I desire ("gap"). The distance I tend to set up for is 15 or 20 yards. I gap off the top of my strike plate for height elevation reference.
"Typically", for non-IBO 3d events (where strike plate can be no higher than 1" above the arrow), my nock height is about 1+ inch above center. If my strike plate is higher, I can go lower on nock height- depending on distance set up.
It also depends on how heavy an arrow I use. XX75 aluminum full length 2016 shafts with various point weights (I use 175 grain points a lot), versus XX75 aluminum full length 1916 shafts with 125-150 grain points.
I don't worry about fletched vs unbleached arrow POA differences/tuning. If the fletched arrow final product flies well,it is a "go" for me, at various mock heights.
My "point on" distance tends to be about 30 +/-- yards with this approach. There are many ways/combinations to set up your bow for various distances. I'm not saying this is the right way, but it is the way I set up my bows. I have good arrow flight.
I started doing this after watching videos from "vabowdog" (Dwayne Martin).
Btw I tune shooting the old snuffers and field points. Trust me if my nock is 1/16th off the snuffer planes up or down bad. I had to buy all new nocks for my newer bows with low stretch skinny strings plus use a second nock point.
As has been pointed out, only you can determine if a lower nock is needed based on how tight your nocks are. If you go by the old adage "clip an arrow to the string and it should fall off with a light tap on the string"...definitely yes, IMHO. Could you get by without one? Maybe, but dry fires can get expensive. Nocks aren't all created equal. Some may fit the string perfectly but due to factors like nock valley/ear geometry, draw type bow/draw length( as it affects finger pinch)< string/serving diameter and factors I won't bore you with, they can disengage easier than others. Let me put it another way, I've had arrows that I let down from full draw to find to my horror the nock barely gripping the string between the ears...not good. That is really not a "lower nock" issue, but they're cheap insurance and I tie the lower to where it can find a location that "sandwiches" the nock between the upper and lower nock-set. Your better nocks have string grooves to alleviate that problem. Some anal-retentive responder will point out that there will be a slight gap at brace with this arrangement and they will be correct. But if you tie a lower nock tightly below the arrow it will make a gap when you draw to compensate for the string angle, possibly by separating your rings of serving. I've always tied with 1buckyourout's knot and this is the first good diagram of it I've seen on here.....simplicity in itself and still adjustable. Stevie Wonder can tie these.
1buckrout's video settles it. If you're not using 2 nock sets, your arrow is going to move. Of course i know of at least 2 or 3 "experts" on the wall who can consistently defy physics-- they are that good ( i read it all the time in their posts).
Definitely. I know a great three under shooter and he suggested to me, which I shoot split. Two knocks points. It helped me too. That's the way I send all of my bows out on my strings. JF
I get inconsistent flight without 2 nocks while shooting 3-under so for me 2 is absolutely necessary. I use brass because I can easily move or adjust them. Tie- on seems simple and makes sense but having to super glue it is where I back off.
I like to use two nock sets. I've seen top tier archers, both 3 under and split finger ( Mediterranean) that do. I like to use floss tied on. I don't have confidence in my ability to make the adjustable tied style work and stay in place. So I use masking tape, cut skinny "pin stripe" strips, as temporarys to locate where to tie permanent locators.
The times I’ve shot three under it was always with just one nockset. For me no need for one underneath cause it is just in the way. When I shoot 3 under the top finger of my drawing hand is always pushed up against the under side of the nock pushing it against the nockset.
Even when shooting split finger and a tab I take the rubber spreader piece out of the tab so I can grab and feel the nocked arrow as I draw.
