Morning,

I've ordered a Stalker Coyote Longbow tillered 3 under. I've always shot split finger but 3 under make a whole lot of sense to me.

Who else made the switch? What did you find?

Thanks,

Wap

I did about 8 years ago. Had to work through the initial stage where it felt weird. I've had to work on anchor point a couple of times, but in the end I'm very happy with the switch. I still have a bow that likes split better so I do move back and forth between the two.

Hope you like it, I tried it several times but didn't care for it. I'm a prisoner of of my own old ways though but did learn to shoot quite well split-finger. Don't want to screw it up.

I'll add that any bow of any tiller will work with 3 under. My split finger bows have varied from positive, to even to negative tillers and I saw no advantage or disadvantage to any of them.

Ain't nothing new. You will either like it or not. I've done it both ways over the years and honestly see no huge advantage to either finger placement on the string.

I switched years ago because I strained a tendon in my wrist and three under didn't seem to put as much pressure on it. I did go back to split later after it healed. When I shoot left handed, I shot three under. When I shoot right handed I'll do both.

Wap, I made the switch many years ago. I find that for my whitetail hunting 20 yds and in and my 3d shooting 35 yds and in 3 under works very well for me. My split vision sight picture gives me much tighter gaps with 3under with my usual comfortable anchor. I did have to raise my nock height just a bit, and found minor tuning was needed, but otherwise no other adjustments. The great thing about it is that you can try it for a month or two and if you don't like it you can switch back to split.

I’m the type that if it isn’t broke don’t fix it. I shoot split and will continue because I’m stubborn and prefer the feel of it.

I’m with GS been doing it forever to stubborn to change

I also have been thinking about giving 3 under a try. No big deal I zero tiller my ILF bows for it anyway. But if would be beneficial to me if the rec council gets the indoor range up and running. I could get involved with indoor league this summer.

I made the switch maybe 3-4 years ago. After about a month of commitment, I never looked back. From the beginning, my accuracy was more consistent.

You can (and folks have for years) obtain the same affect by raising your sighting reference/anchor closer to your eye.

I've added 3 under to my repertoire. I now use it for close shots, 20 yards or so and in, and split for shots 25 yards and further.

Agree with George that any bow will handle 3-under regardless of how it's tillered. You change the dynamic tiller of the bow with nock height. I set mine where it may be a little low for 3-under and a little high for split, but works well enough for each.

I try going to 3 under periodically to see what it's about, but I just don't like it. For me it just seems weird, but I have been shooting split finger since I was a kid making bows out of tree limbs and string, LOL.

Ditto what Orion stated. For me, three under is a tool in my repertoire to lower the point of impact of the arrow for closer shots. It reduces string crawls or gaps.

As the range increases, I move to split finger and start face walking. I can't juggle all of the sighting variables for each distance and for each bow that I shoot, so I record the hold for every five yards on masking tape on the lower limb. Say the standing bear is looking at me from what I estimate to be 57 yards. The lower limb notes that 55 yards requires a split finger draw and an anchor on my lower lip. I hold over a tidge for the other 2 yards from 55 to 57 and loose. Listen for the thwack.

I shoot for thrills so nobody dings me for the trajectory notes. It works for my Samick, it works for my Thunderchild and Helmsdeep. There are many aiming systems, use what works for you and have fun.

I appreciate the replies. I have shot my current bow 3 under and my recurve makes a hell of a racket and makes me worry about damaging the bottom limb. I'll check with the Boyer and see his thoughts about his bow and shooting the same set up both 3 under and split which is the way I've shot for 50+ years.

Wap

I think if I were competing Barebow at 30 yards and in, I would commit to 3U because it’s arguably more precise at shorter ranges. Not a huge difference, but when line-cutters count..... those damned line-cutters count.

As it is, I haven’t messed with it enough to get past feeling like I’m going to put my eye out with the nock..... LOL

JMO, the smart money is to get good with both techniques.

I am wondering, though, if split might have some advantage that I have yet to put my finger on, because I don’t know that I recall ever seeing an Olympic style shooter using 3U technique. Or maybe it’s entirely common and I just hadn’t noticed.

Just thinking that there may be some kind of a trade off between the Percision of the siding picture and the consistency of the release such that people who regularly shoot at longer distances are better off using split. And certainly, in a Hunting situation I think I would feel more confident being able to lock my arrow down a little bit between my fingers.

So I guess I will continue to experiment for a bit…

Wap,

I think contacting your bowyer is a wise move. I've found that my bows that have adjustable tiller shoot 3U on par with split. That includes the level of noise.

I have a fixed tiller bow that was made for split. Yeah, increasing the nock point height makes it work with 3U, but it is no longer as quiet as it was with split.

I switched from split to 3 under last yr just to try it out and I have no real need to go back to split. I hunt and 99.9% of my shots taken are under 18+- yards. I don't shoot target/paper for scores or even 3d. It took me about 2 months and I became very comfortable with this style. GF..I would think you dont see 3U in the Olympics is due to the quantity of meters they are shooting.

Shot split for a very long time , 3 under is hard to beat for shorter distance, split is great for longer . Once you shoot 3U for a while split seems odd , and vice versa . But it falls back in quickly.

A few years back I decided to try 3U and I remember it feeling very strange at first too. But you get used to it pretty quickly if you just stick with it long enough. I shoot instictively so I really can’t talk about the gap differences. I noticed an improvement in accuracy immediately. Group sizes shrunk, I felt like I could pull more weight comfortably and hold longer without the urge to drop the string so soon. One obvious reason was the shaft was closer to my eye and I was looking right down it at the target. I’m also convinced that I was getting off of the string more cleanly without any finger pinch on the index finger. However, even with these advantages, I never fell in love with it. I never liked the look of the arrow riding up above the fingers (I know, that’s very subjective and kinda silly, but it was real in my head). Also, I liked the feeling of pinching the nock between my fingers and feeling more in control of it, less likely to get a dry-fire from the nock slipping forward. And some bows definitely seem to tell you they don’t like being shot that way in terms of noise and vibration. So, I decided to go back to split finger but raise my anchor point to just under my eye to get close to the 3U sight picture. Funny thing is that split finger felt weird at first when I made the switch back. I’m convinced that 3U is a more accurate aiming system whether you shoot instinctively or gap, but it does have some disadvantages as well. I have been thinking about forcing myself to get used to gap shooting so I can be more accurate at longer distances. If I do that, I will probably go back to 3U then.

Three under from the start,and never looked back, but for Olympic shooting split finger, and under chin anchor is the norm to get distance,and accuracy. I take your asking for hunting. Nothing wrong about shooting either way. Just another one of life's choices. Shoot long enough ,and you will know what works best for you.

After 40-ish years of split I switched out of neccessity (it doesn't aggravate the arthritis in my release fingers nearly as much as split). I set top nock point at 3/4" and one below that a skooch wider than the arrow nock. I anchor with index finger in corner of mouth. I can still shoot split but have grown accostumed to three under. It's all good!

What Mr. Stout said

Wap, I have shot split for about 45 years, and I'm O.K. to about 15 paces, but I could never hold a fairly tight group out to 20, so I have been talking to a few of the members here, and after the first, I will start a regimented transition to 3under. I have shot 3under before, just messing around, but never gave it a fair shake, this time I will. Brian...

I go both ways but usally shot split. 3U I notice bow has a little more noise.

I have shot split for about 50 years. I moved to 3 under a few years back, mostly to just play with all the new systems people have been coming up with.

You can shoot 3 under with any bow, just as you could enter the Olympics with an untuned bow. A lot of people are happy and presumably do not even know what they would be looking for.

Put a different way, there are plenty of methods that push the lack of tune really hard, like string walking or playing with your nocking point height and point on. If you can get away with those techniques you can get away with three fingers under and split tiller. But at the same time you will have limits you would not have if you could chase the tune with the correct tiller. It is obvious on the ASL I use most. I have 3 knocks and shoot some of them split and others 3 under. But if you go too far string walking, and not that far compared to my ILF, you hit a wall where the bow is super unhappy. But I can't tiller my way out of it. I have to play with hold over.

I agree, Bowlim. Ignorance is bliss. Folks should be more careful with their advice, imo.

The mere mention of split finger, 3 under, positive, negative, or even tiller is nothing more than that, a mere mention, without more info and understanding.

For instance, three bows, one tillered even, one 1/4" positive, and one 1/4" negative could all balance at exactly the same point at full draw for the same shooter, held the same way... the only difference being the center locations of the bows. It has at least as much bearing on the resulting tiller profile and with it, how a bow behaves as anything else, but is never mentioned in these 'tiller advice' threads for some reason.

Conversely, three bows could all have the exact same tiller measurements, but balance and behave best for different string hand locations, simply due to the locations of their centers.

Not my rule. It's physics.

So when offering our advice or experience regarding tiller, we should bear in mind that center locations can vary up to 2" in the bows being used by folks here where this advice is so generously offered. That is a HUGE difference, and directly related to tiller/limb balance.

In other words, if the center of your bow is an inch or two different than the center of my bow, the same tiller measurement means two different things to us... or it damned well should. How then, or why, should you value or apply any advice or experience I offer?

Now, who can tell us just what a true "three under tiller" should look like on someone else's bow?

Tiller matters. And it's one of the most misunderstood aspects of archery and bow making.

Jeff, I always thought the same. And when I tried 3 under with certain bows. They did not like it AT ALL. There was a buck, or kick, one limb firing before the other or with more load on it. And man did it add noise. Then I got into building self bows. That is where I learned that limbs firing at the same time is very important to a pleasant shooting experience. The few good self bows I’ve made make almost zero sound without silencers And are fast

I still don't understand with folks don't just raise their anchor point/sighting reference.

Or just put sights on it :^)

Questions like this are what keeps these forums alive.. Doesn't really matter what works for others if it works for you.

Switching from split to three under will not give you the admiration of all of your shooting friends, but may very well help some.. More likely you won't give it enough time for it to feel right and you will switch back. I say this because that is the typical M.O. of most human beings. Make a small effort hoping to see radical improvements. When it doesn't happen, then it must have been a gimmick. You may very well be different, but likely not according to averages.

Making a switch to anything requires commitment. There's no way one can go back and forth every hour or day or even week to see if one way is better than another. Doing it that way will never give the "new" way a fair shot.

Like anything, you must first commit... "I want to learn to (insert idea). You must then give it the time for it to be comfortable. This is the case with switching from glove to tab, no bow quiver to using a bow quiver, RH to LH, and yes, even split to three under.

How long does it take? only one arrow... I can't tell you how many arrows one must shoot before that all revealing arrow though. It's different for everyone.

If it doesn't mean that much to you, I would just settle for what you are doing now. BigJim

“ GF..I would think you dont see 3U in the Olympics is due to the quantity of meters they are shooting.”

Exactly. They have sights, so there is no enhancement of the sight picture and gap is irrelevant, so my guess is that split provides a more consistent release than 3U.

For close-range barebow shooters, the better sight picture probably offsets the loss of consistency - for a LOT of us, anyway. Probably especially those who don’t consciously learn to incorporate the arrow into their sight picture.

I agree with Big Jim on the subject. I've shot split finger since my childhood. It works for me. I've tried three under, and it was ok, but in my mind I asked myself a simple question--Why am I switching? Split fingers worked for years--so why am I changing things? I felt uncomfortable with it, and never really dedicated tons of time to three under because I stayed with worked for so many years. There's nothing wrong with trying it. I had visions of perhaps a huge leap to better accuracy, and why I even entertained such an idea is beyond me. I will stay with what has worked for me. It was also said--you will either like it, or not like it.

I started shooting again last summer after at a couple year lay off. Instead of going back to split, a tab, and the same heavy hickory and doug fir arrows, I totally changed up my game. I now shoot 3 under using a thin kangaroo glove, and home made cedar arrows. I immediately got a better loose, and straight flight with no wag or kick. Initially I didn't like the increased sound with three under, but that has passed. So three under, a tight kangaroo glove where I can feel the string, and cedars it is for me.

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