| From: D.Lewis aka tonto59
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Show us a shooter selfbow you made that’s pushing the limits.
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| From: PEARL DRUMS
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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No such thing :)
If its pushing the limits its not getting shot regularly. It hangs on the wall with other bows that are "still just fine" as they collect dust. You will often hear about all these bows that break "rules" and are still just fine, few get shot 2-3 thousand times. They get built, bragged about on the internet, shot a few hundred times and its unto the next build. I say shoot it 2-3k times and let me know how it looks.
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| From: Bjrogg
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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The ones I pushed a little to far performed well for awhile, but what I gained in performance I lost in durability.
I started out like I recommend everyone to. Overbuilt. And very durable. Still a well tillered bow( at least after the first one) but not a screamer. Enough to get me hooked though.
I started pushing the limits a bit more after about 15 or so bows under my belt.
I kept pushing till I decided that was a little to far. I settled somewhere in the middle.
I think it depends what your are after. If you want very short it is possible to push those designs, but you will give up longevity.
We are still limited by our materials and experience. I have figured out what I like. I think if you start out overbuilt and then keep pushing the limits you will probably find what you like to. Sinew and boo backing can help.
I guess for myself I really like my simply orange bow. I don’t know what it’s speed is, but it’s plenty fast. I shoot it well. And it’s still holding its shape fantastic after about four years I think.
What fits me probably doesn’t fit you through. I’m just a scrubby little chubby old fart. I have a hard time getting to 24” draw in hunting conditions.
Bjrogg
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| From: D.Lewis aka tonto59
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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There are always pluses and minuses. When we push the limits. I want a bow that’s going to last. Once one knows what they are doing. How long does it take to build a selfbow if your working with a nice straight clean stave?
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| From: PEARL DRUMS
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Everyone is different. Tool quality, aptitude, experience, spare time and weather all play a role. Expect at least 8-12 hands on hours if you have no heat work to do.
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| From: GF
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Yep... Sounds like durability is the missing bit of info on that other thread.
It’s cool to see what’s possible, but from an evolutionary standpoint, a bow that blows up at a rate faster than you can make them and still have time to feed yourself with it is a dead end....
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| From: Tlhbow
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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The late Jay Massey commented that a full drawn selfbow is 99% broke.
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| From: George Tsoukalas
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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I agree with PD and BJ. I like my bows overbuilt and especially a little longer because I'm a touch and go shooter. Jawge
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| From: Bjrogg
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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For me how long it takes depends on what kinda shape I’m in. How long I can continuously use a draw knife, ferries rasp and scrapers. If you count going out finding a tree, cutting it down and preparing the staves for curing .
If I’m in shape. Have a clean reduced stave. I can probably get to strung and shooting at a short draw in 6 hours. Then I might spend another six perfecting the tiller. If I put in recurves and overlays another week of off and on work.
I rarely build one bow at a time start to finish. I usually have several in different stages. That way when I heat or steam corrections or recurves I can wait several days for wood to re acclimated and pick up another to work on.
Just remember it isn’t a race. I often hear people say. I just have to take a few lbs off. I think it was Badger that said. “ Never think of it as taking a few lbs off. Think of it as perfecting the tiller.”
Bjrogg
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| From: D.Lewis aka tonto59
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Steve”Badgers was the first selfbow I ever shot. They are beautiful works of art. And good shooters.
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| From: George D. Stout
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Pretty sure it was Saxton Pope who said a bow fully drawn is nine-tenths broken.
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| From: Tlhbow
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Probly so George . Sounds like a good quote to pass on. I always remember it shooting my selfbows,
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| From: GF
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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Don’t get me wrong - I envy the skills!
And I suppose once you get hooked on it, it could be mesmerizing....
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| From: BowAholic
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| Date: 03-Dec-20 |
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VB~ that looks like one of Arvin's bows... :) When I think about a selfbow pushing the limits, I always pictures Marc's 'super curves'... I've never even attempted to make one, but they are the fastest selfbows I've ever seen.
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| From: Bjrogg
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| Date: 04-Dec-20 |
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I just want to add. Please don’t think that I’m trying to discourage people from pushing the limits.
I’m not. I’m very much encouraging that people learn and become proficient with the basics.
Then step by step evolve to the point of pushing it to far.
Then back up just a little.
Always liked that saying. “If you ain’t living on the edge, your taking up to much space”
Bjrogg
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| From: Arvin
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| Date: 04-Dec-20 |
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Well that bow looks like a new Shawn bow to me. If right do I get the stake dinner? The ones I have built that was the real fast become flight bows and don’t get shot a lot. Some say they are over built cause the length. But I would put a hundred on them to shoot for years. They maybe take some more set but shoot for years. Arvin
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| From: Arvin
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| Date: 04-Dec-20 |
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Well that bow looks like a new Shawn bow to me. If right do I get the stake dinner? The ones I have built that was the real fast become flight bows and don’t get shot a lot. Some say they are over built cause the length. But I would put a hundred on them to shoot for years. They maybe take some more set but shoot for years. Arvin
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| From: scp
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| Date: 04-Dec-20 |
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If anyone wants to push the limit the easy way, simply stop tillering at 24 inches of draw length and keep on pulling on it until it breaks or reaches the draw length of 28 inches. If it does not take too much set, say less than one inch, you just pushed the limit successfully. That's what I am about to do with several of my self-bows, once I set up one of draw-board/shooting-machine. Wish me luck.
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| From: BowAholic
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| Date: 05-Dec-20 |
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I'll see if I can post the only picture I have of one of Marc's bows...the profile is awesome and I want to try to make one. :) I have personally owned one of Marc's selfbows that shot over 190 fps shooting a 10gpp arrow drawn 28". I took it to moJam and let everyone shoot it one year, so there are lots of guys that know it's true.
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| From: BowAholic
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| Date: 05-Dec-20 |
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OK, Marc just told me that the above picture was more of a working recurve and not a static like White Lightning, so here is the profile for WL~
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| From: Bjrogg
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| Date: 05-Dec-20 |
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Marc is a very fine bowyer. He has helped me more ways than I can possibly say. More than he will ever know. He doesn’t seem to be the type that would brag or overstate his work. He doesn’t have to. It speaks for itself.
He does the best job of anyone I know tillering. Simson might be close but Marc is always perfect.
I don’t have any of his bows. Never even held one. I can tell that they are high performance and excellently executed designs. I think they are probably pretty durable to.
I think Marc has pushed the limits to the edge. Took a step back to where it was safe and can still see over the edge without slipping and falling
Bjrogg
PS in case someone might not understand. The pictures Bob shared. The back of the bow is facing down. Very reflexed. Would love to see a full draw. Their always perfect
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| From: BowAholic
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| Date: 05-Dec-20 |
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Brian, I think you are exactly right about where Marc is as far as his bow building. I decided a long time ago that I was a 'hunting bow' maker, and kind of stuck to that. The few bows that I made trying to "push the limit" didn't hold up with my daily shooting, so I backed off. There is a happy medium somewhere, that is a little different for every bowyer.
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| From: George Tsoukalas
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| Date: 05-Dec-20 |
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Marc is an excellent bowyer. He is able to push limits successfully.
But if we are recommending a design for neophytes we should probably recommend straight limbs, double your draw and add 20-25% for a handle bow with an 7-8 inch non bending handle for a 26-28" draw and 1.5-2 inch fades.
I still favor straight limbs for my use.
This is just my opinion.
Jawge
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| From: Arvin
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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Here’s my new bow. Shoots 450gr. 246ds. Don’t know if that’s pushing the limits.
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| From: Jeff Durnell
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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Nice bow Arvin. That's one of my favorite profiles. What's the draw weight and draw length?
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| From: Bjrogg
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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Nice bow Arvin. I hope it kicks butt.
I really should do some playing around doing flight. I got the perfect location for it. I know I have a lot to learn about it yet. From the arrows to the string and bow.
Not to mention the shooting.
Thanks for posting that thread on PA
Bjrogg
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| From: Arvin
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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Wild Bill where did you get that picture of me?? Arvin
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| From: Jon Stewart
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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All my self bows push the limits because I am so lousy at making them. I can predict anyone of them may break at any given time. lol
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| From: Arvin
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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Good advice Jawge! Arvin
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| From: Bjrogg
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| Date: 06-Dec-20 |
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Yup George that’s really good advice.
Until you master the basics like Jon says. Every bow is pushing the limits.
Bjrogg
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