Is one better then the other for building a short bow at 28 inches of draw? What is the shortest you recommend building a self bow? Can you go shorter with a bend through the handle bow? Just a couple of things I’ve been thinking about.

I’ve never made a hickory bow. I’ve heard that it is more tolerant of grain violations on its back.

That it is good in tension strength, but not as good in compression.

That means it probably isn’t going to break, but might wear out a little sooner.

It also has a tendency to really absorb moisture. It as I understand performs very well in dry desert climates.

Seems people like it in combination with sinew. Especially in that dry climate.

Osage I have used. I find it a very nice wood to work with for selfbows.

It is a yellow wood and you do need to chase a ring.

It is good in both tension and compression.

It is really nice for using heat or steam to shape. And then it holds that shape very nicely. At least compared to HHB.

With a clean back it seems pretty friendly. A less than perfect tiller can survive.

I feel more comfortable pushing the limits with a good piece of Osage than I do with HHB.

As for how short you can go.

I know everyone wants to build that bow they always wanted. I really advise them to build a more modest design first. Get the hang of it. There is a whole vocabulary to this and so many different things to learn that you really almost have to experience before you can fully understand.

After you make a couple you can start pushing it. You will figure out when you pushed to far.

Yes a bend through the handle can be made shorter. We go by working limb length. Usually at least twice as much working(bending) limb than draw length. A little extra might even help you at first.

So a 28” draw would be at least a 56” bendy handle.

A stiff handle you add for the non working area. Handle 4 or 5” fade another 1 1/2 or 2”” each. So another 7 or 9”

Be careful to avoid bending to much toward middle. That’s where the most stress is and all other things equal will want to do all the bending until everything else does.

I usually start at the outers. Get them starting to bend and work my way in. As you move in you will have to continue to revisit the areas you already got moving as getting other areas working will take some stress off them and they won’t be working as hard as they had been. Best advice ever. Remember it is a piece of wood. Don’t let it scare you to the point you are afraid to do anything.

Bjrogg

This is my latest Osage bow, it’s 52” all of my other bows were 62” and longer. it’s only a few months old and from an average to poor quality stave. It hasn’t been through the ringer yet, but It’s backed with rawhide so I’m fairly confident in a long prosperous life for it.

Osage would most likely build a better short bow. A good rule is double the draw and add the non working handle length. A bend through the handle could certainly be built short. Hickory tends to take a set more even on longer bows

Awesome work there Jay... I agree with Onehair..

Osage is king and always will be. This is my opinion and only an opinion. The most accurate bow, without question is a rigid handle bow. For a 28" bow I would use the following formula. 28" x 2 + 10" handle/fades. That would be 66" string groove to string groove. If you do some research you will find the best self bow shooters shoot rigid handle bows with some length to them.

That’s what I’ve read. Twice your arrow length at a minimum. This 52” was not the original design. But the result of several calamities during the build that almost resulted in another in the “education” pile. Luckily the mishaps happened while I still had enough material in the limb to carve out the tips closer to the handle. I originally got too many raised splinters during the tip bends. The second attempt I used straps of thin steel on the belly to prevent splinters in the next steam bend. ( I steamed the overly thick limb ends, then carved the tips after the bend turned out correctly ). But this resulted in a very short bow. And figured I needed to keep moving forward on this first one and get most of the most experience i could from this bow. Now I think I could make one much better and to predetermined length.

My favorite osage selfbow, the bow I've shot by far the most(made in '04), is perfectly described by Pearl's post. It's 63# @ 28", 66" ntn, 1 1/4" wide. The only thing I'd do different is maybe add 1/8" to its width. It has very thick growth rings with good early to late wood ratio.

It's spent many, many hours strung hunting, fishing and shooting over the years and shot countless thousands of arrows. It follows the string by 1/2" in the top limb and 1 1/8" in the bottom, partially due to a natural bit of deflex/hump just several inches away from the handle that it had when new. It's a worthy, proven, trusted companion, and I think we have many years to spend together still. Assuming I can keep pulling it. Lioness is her name... and she loves to hunt.

Sure, you can go shorter, and I have, but none of those real short selfbows or sinew backed bows have ever bumped Lioness from that #1 spot.

I don't own a hickory bow... not that there's anything wrong with them ;^)

I would go with Osage on the short bow. At 28" draw it is going to take a better bowyer than me to build it less than 60" unbacked. I like hickory and pecan but it is prone to memory and at that draw length for a short bow it would not be ideal. If sinew backed I bet you could build it in that 50-56" range, maybe even shorter...

Bjrogg, that's some very well described advice!

Question #1....Osage is more forgiving to a novice,but hickory honestly isn't far behind. Even if you make some mistakes it's ability to bend so far before breaking is it's big asset. In the hands of the right person hickory can do very well in the shorter higher stressed designs. The caveat is design,moisture content,and tillering with a little more care than Osage. There's only a few woods I will even consider anymore using the shorter higher stressed designs and hickory is still one of the few. That's should tell you it really is a good wood.

Questions 2 and 3 are the same soooo.... As far as an unbacked selfbow no more than twice the draw length,and it must at least bend slightly in the handle if the handle isn't a deflexed area. And if you go that short and bend in the handle I prefer putting in recurves to help smooth out the draw and keep the stack at bay nearing full draw.

One of my top 3 favorite bows to shoot(target or hunting) is a 56" Osage R/D static recurve(28" draw). It does barely bend in the fades,but not not the handle. That design is not easy to make and execute tho. But a deflexed handle area lessens the stresses near fades and handle area and can allow a longer draw than normal. Reflexing or recurving(or both..even better imo) the limbs or tips offesets the deflexed handle and brings the tips back inline near the handle and giving you still good braced and early draw tension. Anyways...much more can be said,and I wouldn't try it till ya got some bows under your belt and know how to tiller different profiles with proficiency

Btw my other top 2 are 66" bows...for good reasons...lol.

As the experts wrote on osage but don't overlook, Ironwood/Hophornbeam.

Good point, Jon. Hophornbeam is a real good one too.

I am no expert or even a beginner, but I managed somehow to whittle out a Hickory bow and no matter how many coats of finish I put on it, it still kept bending back toward the string after two or three years it is pretty mild and not much of an arrow slinger anymore. I am sure I messed it up.

I live in Florida where you grow gills after a while because of the humidity.

I have a hophornbeam that I almost finished before my disability kicked in, now that I am doing better I am looking forward to finish it and start on my Osage staves.

So is American Hornbeam. Not saying this to stir the pot, but Keith Shannon is making fire hardened Hickory bows from green to finish in three days with excellent results according to him. Claims his bows will shoot better than Osage bows he has compared them to. I have just started fire hardening Hickory bows recently, and I don't know for sure yet, but it looks promising. Check him out on utube. You may want to give it a shot. Just saying.

Thanks Robert if it works for HHB I don't see why it wouldn't for Hickory. Might be worth a try.

If only we could have a rendevous to compare whitewoods to hardwoods.....

Good video Craig and Bob. I guess there is always more to learn.

Especially "darkened" whitewood.

Good video!!

I don't like short bows. Other than that. I've made all kinds of bows from all kinds of woods I like osage and hickory. I've decided the magic is cradled in the arms of the bowyer, Jawge

Hmmm. Maybe with this new knowledge from this video. There will be a White woods war II on StickBow. One can only hope;)

Fun video! Jawge

Thanks for posting the video Craig. I am not good at that. I have fire hardened one Elm, one Walnut,one white Oak, and 3 Hickory bows so far all from green wood, but I do it differently than the video. I floor tiller, then put on a form ,straighten, and heat treat each limb with a heat gun enough to keep it straight when strung backwards with about 4 inches of reflex. Then holding the bow in my hand with a leather glove I fire harden one limb at time watching color change on the belly, and checking to see how hot the limbs are getting.The white Oak ,and Walnut, bows were 56,and 60 inches long,and came out straight after tillering. The 70 inch Elm bow held just a tiny bit of reflex with a non working handle, and rounded belly, but the Hickory bows held 1 to 1 and half inches of reflex at 62 inches long in the end which is not bad. Haven't shot them through the chrony yet. I'll try his method next when I get set up for it. Having fun experimenting.

Good video, learned a lot.

Loved the vid !!!

If you follow his lead it may do away with frustration like I went through in my first 2 years of self bow making. Many on primitive archery are still not convinced, but I see promise in his method.

Thanks for the formula Chris. I wrote it done this time.

Dam! I wrote it down this time. Thank you. And thank you Brian for the help as well.

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