Who shoots single be bevel 2 blade broadheads? Been thinking about trying them, what is your favorite brand and what grain weight would you recommend. I shoot a 68 lb bighorn with a 30" goldtip 5575 arrow if that helps at all in the recomindation. Thanks

I have. My dad got some of the first Elburgs that Harry made.

Weight should whatever you want it to be. I typically use 125 or 145.

Grizzly will always be my favorite. You aren't going to find they kill anything any more dead than a double bevel broadhead does.

And you can sharpen any head like a single bevel.

I use Zwickey No Mercy. They worked on a couple deer

Taken two bucks with Abowyers. Bonehead and Brown Bears. Built SOLID!

Last two deer I used a 175 grain grizzly, both dropped in sight and broadhead was resharpened and back in quiver

Grizzly and cutthroat..

Nothing but Abowyer SB heads for many years. My particular favorite is the Wapiti 175. Just this morning I was doing a rough calculation. The last 14 big game animals I've killed with these Abowyer heads have dropped in sight...no blood trail required. I'm talking about black bears, moose and whitetails.

Daily Double:

Halawa Goat:

AK Bull:

2020 Buck:

I’ve had good luck with Grizzly broad heads.

Cutthroat. Love em. About to try some Tuffheads. Also use Tuskers.

Kevin, What is the "collar" or footing on the arrow?

Sturdy looking set up.

Please share.

Using Ace double bevel now because Bob, Jan, my wife and I all belong to the same club.

I did use single bevel Helix a few years ago, and killed a couple deer with them. Entrance and exit holes were crescent shaped.

There are a ton of great single bevel heads out there I like the Grizzly Heads the price and the durably is awesome.

I'm using the Valkyrie Archery centerpin sleeve and centerpin broadhead adapter. Beyond sturdy.

I've used Abowyer Wapitis and Brown Bears with good results. Not quite as good as Kevin's :>)

Use em, love em, will never go back

I like the Abowyer Wapiti. Plenty of good choices out there.

Used Tuffhead 265 gr. on a Mule Deer Doe in Oct- W/ a 45# Bear Grizzly. Was impressed w/ Blood Trail and Zipped right through her. Have used Tusker Concords on pigs last year and was also impressed w/ there performance and penetration. Wish VPA would make a single bevel.

Killed a few deer w grizzly single bevels. Im able to get them verrrry sharp and they've always resulted in good penetration and quick kills. I will say that bloodtrails have been less than stellar--- i know the experts will soon be all over this yapping about blood trails being a product of shot placement, but double lung and two holes hasn't netted me as much blood on the ground as similar hits w double bevels ( why im not sure) and esp 3 blades. Just my experience.

No different than double bevel; if you like it one way, you’ll probably like it the other. Might help; can’t imagine how it could hurt anything… As long as YOU can get it as sharp as you want it…

What gets cut, not cut with what.

I believe Ace will grind them to your preference if you buy direct.

One thing I don’t do is argue with another man’s results. I can only relate my experiences over a lifetime of killing animals with broadheads. I’ve had EVERY type of head produce blood trails from poor to excellent. Often it was explainable but sometimes not. I killed a bear with a Snuffer (big one) and the trail was miserable. That bear was dead in under a hundred yards. Another bear was shot with the Wapiti SB and died after a 50 yard sprint, leaving copious blood the entire way. I’ve used SBBs long enough and with enough success to say that....for me and my experiences....I have not seen any appreciable decrease in blood on the ground. I killed a doe in October with a pass-thru shot and she only made it about 25 yards....spraying so much blood I couldn’t walk down the path she took without making a mess of my clothes. In the end, I simply cannot recall making a good killing shot which didn’t yield enough blood to lead me to the animal, whether I needed to trail or not.

You might be thinking I’m advocating for some big advantage to SBB heads. Well, I’m not. I shoot what I do because they are big, strong, extremely durable, and I can make them sharp enough to scare the hair off my arm. The single bevel may or may not work to my advantage, but I’m convinced it is 100% as effective as any DBB I ever used....and it may have a penetration advantage in certain situations. I can’t prove that. What matters most to me is excellent and dependable results.

Great post Kevin. Just as you won't argue another's experiences we can argue your successes. Appreciate your candor.

Sorry, "can't" argue your successes.

Thanks Kevin and others. I also have been shooting the Abowyer Wapiti SB. Have only taken two deer with this head and one left a great blood trail on a passthru and the other left no blood at all without pass thru. Both died within sight though. I will keep hunting with them as they fly awesome on my 2020 Easton's and I get them really sharp with just a RADA.

Clint, My oldest Son had a rough experience last year with a 3 blade head, thickest part of shoulder and no penetration, not a good outcome, I told Him to switch to grizzlys, which He did, the kodiaks, same shot as last year, but different result, blasted thru shoulder, heart, and lodged in off side shoulder. Deer went appx. 50 yards. As everyone states, shot placement, and SHARP heads are all important, but in the event of Your shot being a bit off, those single bevels can really shine. Have fun in making Your choice Clint, Brian...

I used a Vandieman 225 this year with good results. Two holes in and out and good blood.

Thanks. Nature does create wonderful things for us to enjoy.

Killed many deer and pigs with the old Grizzly broadhead made for wooden arrows. Use carbon now with inserts in the Grizzly. Still have some so I don't know much about the newer ones. This is from a doe earlier this month.

“What gets cut, not cut with what”. That’s dead on GF. It’s word for word what I said a few days ago in another thread.

^ in which case I apologize for not giving the proper attribution!

“ I get them really sharp with just a RADA.”

Wait… WHAT?

Is it possible to sharpen a single bevel with RADA??

I've only killed one deer with a single bevel...Grizzly. Paced it off afterwards, 24 yard shot. Quartering away and I hit further back than I wanted...got paunch, center punched the liver, far flung, and the arrow exited just behind the far front shoulder.

I watched him run off about 75 yards, turn left, and stop to look back towards me. He stood a couple seconds then lunged into an area of blowdowns, out of my sight.

I was thinking "gut shot" and backed out. My son and i came back later...huge blood spatter on the exit, then not a drop to be found. Having marked the spot he stopped at, we moved there. Not a drop yet, but we looked where he ran...and there he laid. He was down in seconds.

Upon autopsy, the internal damage was devastating...including the "S" cut through the liver. The cavity was filled with blood, but no leaks. I think the hit itself wasn't conducive to blood on the ground, but the result was impressive. I won't hesitate to use them again, but have used Zwickey Zwickey Deltas for decades.

160 Cutthroat glue-on, 75gr steel screw in adaptor, 75gr brass insert, CX Heritage 350, 69#.

The single bevel isn't giving better penetration on meat than any 2 blade but the shape of the head is, that why Howard Hill designed his heads to be so long. 3 to 1 is designed to pen better. Where the single bevel comes in is on bone, but even there the 3 to 1 design helps as much. Jmo

Ive been shooting Centaur big game heads for several years now. Ive been happy with them. The S shaped wound seems to stay open easier better. But in all fairness i have just stuck with something that works for me and havent tried more.

So much for "2 blade heads only cut a slit". Looks like a pretty bad wound to me.

I used Grizzly 125 on my first trad kill this year. Didn’t get any pic’s but a nice big slit on entry and plenty of blood on the ground to track. The heart looked just like DNEWER’s 1st heart photo. Also the head is still hunting sharp!

The cork scewing of the single bevel isn't cutting and more meat its just cutting different meat, if that makes any sense. The cut spirals instead of going straight but stil cuts the same amount as a single. And the skin is what can seal shut on 2 blade cuts on bad hit. The shape of the slit in skin doesn't matter. It's still a slit.

I’m glad to see you say that, Gary, because I have pondered that myself.

Strictly speaking, I think if the arrow were to complete 1/2 rotation as it passed through the animal, that should translate into adding (to the linear distance cut) the circumference of a circle which is the same diameter as the Broadhead.

Right? Because instead of 2 straight lines, the tips of the blades each trace a spiral-shaped path. If both tips complete 1/2 circle, that’s a whole circle; circumference is pi x circumference; circumference of a 1 3/16” diameter circle is then about 3 3/4”, so that seems a LOT.

But who are we kidding?

I went back and looked at DNEWER’s pic of entry and exit and it sure looks to me like the blades were just about horizontal both coming and going... I don’t expect he got 180° rotation in between.

Does anyone know the rate of twist on an arrow? My roundballer is about 1:66”....

If a 165 fps arrow were to complete a rotation every 5 feet, that would be 33 revolutions/second, or nearly 2000 RPM. I don’ theen so, Lucy!

And if an arrow were to carve though the 8” or so between a deer’s ribs at the rate of 1:64”, that would give you 1/8 of 1 rotation.

I don’t know, but I don’t expect it is even close to that....

I’m not convinced that there is no value to a single-bevel when you hit a long bone like the humerus; I’ve seen too many pics of shattered bones to discount that. Maybe DB guys just don’t document their hits....

But I've calculated my way out of imagining that you cut through appreciably “more” of anything....

I am a real fan of the Grizzly single bevel heads. I have the 175 grain Screw-in heads on a set of the .500 carbons and 125 grain Glue-on heads on my POC woodies. JW

To make the wide edge single bevel work correctly according to Ashby and his followers and the testing, you must have a very hard, wide, sharp edge that is sharp like a razor. It must cut like a straight razor shaving (perpendicular to the blade edge) as well as slicing along the edge, and both happening at the same time creates the rotation by tissue pressure against the wide edge bevel. If your blade edge is sharp enough to slice along the edge, but not sharp enough to shave-slice perpendicular to the edge, you will not get all the rotation.

Does it matter? maybe, and maybe it's more important for light bows or bigger animals. I've single-beveled my double bevel heads for many years and I know a well-known bowhunter that sharpens his Grizzlies like a double-bevel head and we both have success and great penetration and blood trails.

I heart and double lung shot a doe with a 160 grain Grizzly. You can see the crescent moon shaped slit in the heart.

Joe

Yeah, that is JUST like you, Joe, isn’t it?

First you run the poor thing over in your Plymouth Fury, then you kill it, then you MOON it!

Seriously… I thought the idea was that they leave an S-shaped slit, not a crescent....

A 190gr Grizzly

Even if the broadhead did a full 360 rotation through a deer (which it does not do) I would discount the importance of the additional length of cut. Far more important to me is the amount of penetration.

And I suppose there's this point: If any one broadhead happens to perform better at going through bone or connective tissue than another, that head may achieve some very meaningful additional wound length or severity.

I have used single bevels (Zwickey No Mercy and Grizzly) off and on for several years (mostly Grizzly). Last year I used them (Grizzly) almost exclusively. I don't like the tanto tips. I observed reduced penetration with them as compared to regular double bevel broadheads (Zwickey No Mercy and Eskimos). Last year I shot 3 deer out of the same stand at approx. the same distance with almost the same point of impact. The 2 I shot with the Grizzly bhs. I would find my arrow 5-8 steps away from where the deer was hit. One I shot with a double bevel No Mercy, the arrow was a total pass-thru and was buried in the ground. I'm only shooting about 40 lbs. nowadays with a 500 grain arrows so penetration is paramount. During the off season, I tried to push a Grizzly through a piece of leather (like on the 3Rivers website). I then used a Eskimo and repeated the test. No comparison. The Eskimo easily penetrated through and the Grizzly would not. I later looked at the Tuffhead website and discovered that their SBB have a double bevel tip. I sharpened my Grizzlys tanto tips and repeated the leather push test. Better but still not close to an Eskimo. I have also noticed a lot of edge "chatter" with them. Never had that with a double bevel. Bloodtrails have been OK, but like all broadheads, it depends on where you hit 'em. My first deer this year I hit her behind the last rib and exited behind the off side shoulder with a Grizzly. No blood at all. Guts had sealed off the entrance wound. I just happened to stumble over her. No "S" shape entrance or exit. I hit another doe about the same place with an Eskimo. She didn't leave a bloodtrail either but she stayed on a trail and only went 40-50 yards. Both of them were shot from a ground blind with a slightly above mid-line entrance and exit wound. Both shots gave total penetration. For me, I don't see single bevels giving me better performance than a double bevel Zwickey or Ace.

Heart shot with a 145 grain Abowyer bonehead .. walked 35 yards and dropped.

Would like to add .. I've shot a number of deer with a SB head and notices the cut in the hind shows some slight s cut however the internal damage is very significant .. as you can see above the cut is a large s cut.

I never saw damage like that when I used single bevels. How do you sharpen yours? I just used a file.

The pressure applied to the wider edge by tissue forced against it will make the blade twist. To make it work, the edge must be like a razor so that it will cut perpendicular to the edge like a straight razor shaving off whiskers. That creates the twist while the head is going forward and slicing along it's length. If your head won't shave, you won't get the twist.

I use single bevels on all my pocket and cutlery knives. Slicing a block of cheese shows the pressure against the blade edge forcing the blade through the cheese on a curve, not a straight cut. Same idea as the broadhead but you are slicing two directions if your blade edge is razor sharp.

I’ve not found a reason to use anything but Griz heads. Many many deer have fallen to them and other kinds for me, I’m sticking with griz.

Dnewer, The antelope femur was a good test and demonstrates the benefits of a stout BH design made with quality steel. The ribs don’t offer enough resistance to show all of the benefits. But the damage to the leg bone and the condition of the BH afterwards is why I prefer these style of heads. You can put pretty much anything on the end of an arrow to get through ribs. But what it looks like afterwards is what concerns me. I don’t want my BH destroyed going through an animal. Because I don’t know if it was destroyed half way through the animal or 1/4 way and now is no longer sharp and cutting or not. But when it comes through a test like yours. And is in great condition on the other side it tells me it continued to cut all the way through. Many say they don’t care if a cheap replacement blade BH is destroyed they don’t reuse them anyway. But how do you know the failure point. Was it bent and dull after the first rib or shoulder and then plowing it’s way through? The picture of the shattered leg and a sharp reusable BH is what I like to see. Double bevel or single I don’t care as long as it’s in good shape and still sharp.

This exact head had killed a Cape Buffalo 18 Months prior. Laid around on a shelf. Shot 3 times through an Angus femur than once through 2 femurs lined up. 1028 grain arrow BH combo And if I ran out of ammo could sharpen it and reuse it Overkill you bet. But now I know there isn’t a bone on a North American animal that I need to fear

Dr. Ashby is largely credited for the single bevel movement... but "single bevel" is a LONG way down his list of things that affect/enhance penetration. His words not mine.

Good arrow flight Good shot placement High FOC Arrow Weight High ME tip High integrity tip .. .. .. .. Single Bevel...

I think the double bevel guys have just gotten tired of arguing ;)

I can see the potential upsides of single just fine; I just don’t yet see them as being compelling enough to justify buying twice as many heads just so that I don’t have to commit to either right wing or left when I’m fletching. I guess if I only had one clamp, I might think less about it. Right now, though, I have a half-dozen brand new Ace standards to play with; just no place to shoot them!

I started single bevels with the original RW Grizzlies, since the past 20+ years I single bevel all my heads RW and I've always used LW feathers. It works very well. I personally think matching arrow rotation with broadhead rotation to be not high on the list of importance like a sharp edge or where you place it.

I can’t remember how much it was measured to affect penetration but matching bevel and feather did add. I remember it being well advised.

Here’s the thing about SB heads..and life. You have a Dr who did a scientific experiment done with as much rigor as he thought possible and no alternative data to put up against it suggesting that his data shows is wrong and you’ll get people that say “nope that’s BS”. Show me a well designed alternative reality. Anyone that has killed tons of critters, with all kinds of heads and bow weights would know that all will work, but optimizing can make a difference. It’s not always apparent. What sunset said about HOW the head is to be sharpened makes a difference. Very hard steel, wide edge, and stupid sharp. Splits bone and the blood trails rock. Not everyone is able to replicate it, it’s fine. There are plenty of great broadheads. Pick what you’re most confident with and have a blast.

I recommend taking a mounted single bevel and pushing it into a potato.

It is a good way to get a feel for the rotational force.

The harder you push, the more rotation.

Then try a double bevel for comparison.

Just a couple of observations and a few conclusions on several points already discussed. I would think that the rate of rotation during flight is determined mostly by the fletching and that once the arrow impacts the (more solid) animal, the single bevel would increase the rotation rate. How much is hard to say.

Of course, using a fletch that opposes the single bevel requires the head to change direction when it impacts the animal. This would reduce penetration, but probably not enough to notice on deer size critters (for example, Sunset's experience).

Too, the thickness of the blade, and thus the width/size of the bevel, also affects the amount of rotation it's able to achieve in an animal. For example, a thick head like an Abowyer Wapiti or Brown Bear would tend to rotate more than a single bevel Zwickey, which though it has three thicknesses of metal up front, has only a single thinner blade the last 2/3 of the point length. It obviously won't turn as much as the Abowyer. The Grizzly would be somewhere in between.

I do believe the single bevel is superior when it comes to splitting (and perhaps penetrating through bone) bone. I don't think it makes much difference in soft tissue. The s-cut, when it occurs, just changes the shape of the cut, not the size. All other things being equal, which they seldom are, it seems like sharper heads leave bigger holes regardless of the bevel.

Using my own single beveled Zwickey heads with a flatter bevel than the factory edge, I still don't get as much extra tissue damage as when using a grizzly or a modified Hunter Head. The Zwickey edge is too thin. But they penetrate super well anyway and for deer I think it's a moot point if only ribs or soft tissue is hit. Shooting hogs or large boned animals I can definitely see the value in the rotational force if gristle or big bones are likely to be hit. Jerry Stout, a great hunter, has shot lots of animals with relatively light gear and Grizzly 125's he's file sharpened his own way, not enhancing the bevel or sharpening like everyone says you must do. His blood trails looks like someone spilled a paint bucket. So each of us to make our equipment do for us what end results we want.

Hey Sunset Hill...it would be real interesting how your friend Jerry Stout file sharpens his Grizzly bhs. Maybe you could give more details? Thank you.

I have heard a million times it seems “I should’ve used a.....broadhead” when in reality the shot sucked. Mostly from wheel bow hunters but Trad too. A heart shot is generally not going to bleed as much as double lung in my experience. The pump stops pushing blood, then they’re just leaking. It’s so hard to put apples to apples on live game. All I know is short blood trails or a walk up to a dead animal in sight is fine w me.

Yep and the sheep are all touting single bevel like its something new. I use ace 160 and have for most of 54 years. I don't aim at bones so I have no use for changing from a head that for me has killed whatever I shot with not 1 animal lost due to the broadhead. If it were me and I had trouble with hitting bones I'd practice my shooting more or learn to better choose my shot. Can't argue with sheeple so mostly we watch and enjoy.

SuperK. Jerry sharpens them like a double bevel. Instead of just taking off the burr from the offside edge, he bevels it also. So he modifies the Grizzly head to suit him and gets results, I modify my Eskimos, Hunter Heads, and Howard Hill heads to suit me by beveling one side...just using a file...just because it's an easy edge to do and penetration is great and good blood trails usually.

It frankly disgusts me that some guys can’t allow us to have a legit discussion on this topic without pissing on the shoes of others. It goes both ways.

I’ve never used an Ace Super Express pictured above. Looking at the photo and the text. What am I missing. An 848 grain setup doesn’t get through one rib? There has to be something I’m missing. What animal rib? What pound bow? It seems like at 848 grains you should be able to put a golf ball on an arrow and punch Thru a rib. I know it Hyperbole. It’s sarcasm to make a point.

Sunset, thank you.

I shoot single bevel Tuffhead broadheads.

Jason who owns Tuffhead lives and makes the broadheads right across the road from me. I see the time, testing and dedication he puts into the heads. He's given me heads and asked me to torture them, shoot them into the nastiest stuff I could find and I'm happy to oblige:)

They are great heads with a proven track record but so are lots of other heads out there single and double bevel. Shoot what works for you.

One thing very rarely mentioned when referring to wound channels and blood trails caused by single bevel heads...most of these heads are a 3:1 ratio or close to it. The std. Grizzly heads are the shortest but their total cutting edges length is close to 6". The Tuffhead or Hill or Hunters are 6". The Ace and Zwickey Eskimos are around 4" +-. On a diagonal slice through tissue whether quartering away or from above, there is more tissue exposed to the longer bladed heads. I've noticed this on my animals shot with 3:1 heads...a broadside ground level shot the arrow hole is like a 1" slit. On a quartering shot the arrow hole is up to a 2" slit and more internal damage.

Yeah I bought some Hill heads just for that reason Sunset. They worked great but the vents and made pulling them from trees after a passthru almost impossible with ruining the head so since I had a supply of ace I stuck with them. I got ace heads that I've kill 12 or 14 animals with. Where I hunt passthrus usually end up in a tree.

I over reacted tradmt. I can see that. And yeah it used to get bad. But getting Pms calling names don't help. Dnewer if you got something to say keep it in the thread. Ur name calling in pm's sound like a 12 y/o.

GLF. My passthru shots here hit basalt rocks. So I save my Hill and Hunter heads for hunting larger game (where penetration depth is more beneficial) in the mountains where the rocks and trees are softer :) and use Eskimos for the deer out here in the desert.

Uh...this ain't Facebook. Try to be respectful. And suck it up if you feel disrespected. Adult like.

You're right dnewer you started that in a pm. My mistake putting it in the thread tho.

I can't believe people are throwing insults over broadheads. Let's fight about something important like Wolves, white or yellow wood or maybe instinctive shooting.

Never a dull moment debating broadheads

Now I remember why a lot of well known and respected bowhunters no longer participate in these discussions!

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