Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Shirking?

Messages posted to thread:
GF 22-Sep-20
Bassman 23-Sep-20
GF 23-Sep-20
Bassman 23-Sep-20
GF 23-Sep-20
ottertails 23-Sep-20
GF 23-Sep-20
ottertails 23-Sep-20
Jim Davis 24-Sep-20
Runner 24-Sep-20
fdp 24-Sep-20
GF 24-Sep-20
Bassman 24-Sep-20
George D. Stout 24-Sep-20
Jim Davis 24-Sep-20
Bassman 24-Sep-20
Runner 24-Sep-20
Runner 24-Sep-20
GF 25-Sep-20
George D. Stout 25-Sep-20
George D. Stout 25-Sep-20
Uncle Lijiah 25-Sep-20
Flntknp17 25-Sep-20
GLF 25-Sep-20
Runner 25-Sep-20
From: GF
Date: 22-Sep-20




I just searched the archives in the most recent thread in which this term was used is from 2016, and I was the one to use it. Didn’t answer my question, so I am taking the liberty of starting up a new thread…

OK... I learned this term about 35 years ago while reading a book that was about 60 years old at the time, so maybe it has just fine out of common usage, but I am sure it is still a common problem. The book, in case anyone is wondering, was Hunting With the Bow and Arrow....

For those unfamiliar, it refers to uneven tension on the string with one or more of your fingers. And right at the moment I’m trying to remember what the flight issue is which results when you do this. I would expect that anyone of your three fingers could be the culprit here, although I would imagine that it is more commonly either the index finger or the ring; seems to result in more than a few blisters as well, but I am trying to recall what he said about flight.

FWIW, I shoot split, but am considering adding 3U to my bag of tricks to improve my short game.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 23-Sep-20




98% of the time when I used to get a bad release it was the ring finger causing the problem. Back in the 60's we had a pro shoot with us quiet often, and gave us pointers. Shooters that are over bowed often get blistered ,and swollen ring fingers because they use the ring finger with far to much pressure to help get to full draw when it should only be along for the ride which is why now that I shoot 2 fingers under I no longer have that problem. I am strong enough to do that, because I now only shoot 30 to 40 lb bows."The ring finger is the laziest finger on the hand". Chuck Jordon.1968. I now use equal pressure with the first,and second fingers which works fine for me.

From: GF
Date: 23-Sep-20




Well, yeah, my ring finger used to take an awful beating; Deep Hook seems to cure that, but when my index shirks, I can get some weirdness...

I guess I was thinking that index-shirking might help explain the flight issue (arrows diving to the ground) that someone said was plaguing his attempts at bare-shafting....

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 23-Sep-20




That could very well be though I have never experienced that.Now when my shooting starts to go south it is because I am not shooting with proper back tension. It is good that I know that, so I can focus on that part of the shot sequence, and try ,and correct it. One thing for sure it all has to come together to be consistent.

From: GF
Date: 23-Sep-20




Yeah, I was thinking that the index finger shirking could result in downward pressure on the shaft just from the pad of the index being a touch farther forward and being pressured down onto the top of the nock.

From: ottertails
Date: 23-Sep-20




Shirking huh...guess I've never heard the term as it relates to archery. Read all the books, must've missed it. I can tell ya this, after extended shooting, like a couple hundred shots or more in a couple of hours, my index finger is the only one sore...underside where it rests above the nock.

So I guess I ain't shirking. Interesting tho to hear what others deal with.

From: GF
Date: 23-Sep-20




Actually I might be willing to bet that the soreness you’re dealing with would go away if you were to make it a real point to make that index finger do its share...

From: ottertails
Date: 23-Sep-20




Hearing ya there but my index does a good 50% of the load....I'm pretty dang sure. I actually shoot just using my index and middle split. Third finger is there on the string but really doesn't account for much other taking a ride along ..so to speak. Hey, we all adapted to one way or another on our shooting...the many facets of....so who's to say what's right or wrong eh? :) And my release is very clean...always.

I know it works for me....55 years with the bow and arrow. If I've been doing it wrong all this time, well...I'll never admit to that...lol......( But yeah, that finger can get sore after a few hundred shots...try it and see ;))

From: Jim Davis
Date: 24-Sep-20




As I recall, Robert Elmer was the earliest writer I came across. In his American Archery, or a later rewrite, he mentioned the "shirking third" finger. Elmer was a medical doctor who could have had a doctorate in archery, if there was one.

From: Runner
Date: 24-Sep-20




A glance at the hand size and finger length of a few people will tell you that there's no one way.

From: fdp
Date: 24-Sep-20




It's much more difficult to have dragging or shirking string fingers if you either shoot with a more vertical bow or get the bow, head, hand arm alignment right if you cant, which many don't do.

From: GF
Date: 24-Sep-20




“A glance at the hand size and finger length of a few people will tell you that there's no one way.”

There are always many ways to do just about anything. That has never been a guarantee that all of those different ways actually work, let alone working WELL and not even THINKING about being optimal.

So you have to rely on the Wisdom Of The Ages to point to a productive solution.

JMO, pretending that you can get around a known form issue such as shirking makes as much sense as pretending that you have a way to shoot well without creating good back tension. It’s one thing if you have a handicap of some sort and have to work around that, but when there’s a choice between changing/improving and Status Quo.... I don’t get it.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 24-Sep-20




Well Jim Davis that is exactly what Chuck Jordon showed us.He would have us lay our open hand on a flat surface ,and move each finger up ,and down as fast as we could. Invariably it was the ring ,or third finger that was the laziest. Try it. He also showed us how to help prevent string plucking. Have some one stand in front of you, and with no arrow in your bow pull to full draw. That string should look straight from top limb to bottom limb. Most of us were putting a twist in the string with the string hand, and the string was not straight. Took us all a while to get it right.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 24-Sep-20




Chuck was our archery rep with Proline back in the early 80's and we would have some archery chats about this or that. I think, personally, that the elbow position of the drawing arm affects that lag as much as anything. Just my opinion of course, nothing scientific except the callous on my right hand ring finger.

From: Jim Davis
Date: 24-Sep-20




I agree George. A high elbow puts more of the pull on the third finger.

From: Bassman Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 24-Sep-20




Yes George, and my cousin was a service center for Pro line about 8 miles from me, and Chuck spent a lot of time at that shop. Good teacher,and excellent recurve shooter.

From: Runner
Date: 24-Sep-20




Who is that top American guy who shoots with the sky high elbow and ring finger barely brushing the string?

From: Runner
Date: 24-Sep-20




https://news.wbfo.org/post/five-time-olympic-archer-giving-it-one- more-shot

From: GF
Date: 25-Sep-20




I should find out what range that guy operates.

I don’t know if he made the team, but losing the Olympics this year sure was a downer...

From: George D. Stout
Date: 25-Sep-20

George D. Stout's embedded Photo



Butch Johnson is just one who shoot with a high-elbow, part of a gold medal team effort. He also qualified for 5 consecutive Olympic teams...pretty impressive.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 25-Sep-20




Check where the ring finger is. He nearly qualified for a 6th Olympic team in 2012 in is 50's also.

From: Uncle Lijiah
Date: 25-Sep-20




I've not heard the term shirking before, but switching from glove to tab helped me stop plucking the string.

From: Flntknp17
Date: 25-Sep-20




I have not heard the term before in relation to archery, but I am interested in it. I have shot olympic style recurve for competition most of my life and the topic of differential pressure (or even pressure) on the three fingers of the draw hand is absolutely something people think about A LOT in that type of archery. Surprisingly, the top Americans in the discipline all shoot equally well with very different amounts of pressure on the three fingers. Seems to be a personal preference. One of the advantages of the ILF riser system is the ability to tune the finger pressure to one's own specifications. Check out some video of Brady Ellison releasing an arrow. His last few years have potentially been as dominating as any recurve shooter in history and he is very picky of string pressure on each finger.

Matt

From: GLF
Date: 25-Sep-20




In archery shirking is 1 finger not doing its job, like a person shirking his duties at work.

From: Runner
Date: 25-Sep-20




Two people can do the work of three. Have you ever seen nine guys dig a small hole on a road crew?





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