I have 39yrs of bowhunting under my belt. In that amount of time I've been fortunate in taking a number of animals. In my own observation it seems that when I got a double lung hit, my deer seldom if ever made it more than 65yrds. When I had a heart only shot they would travel farther. Once one made it 200yrds with a hole in his heart. Now my question is have you found this same thing to be true. There are all kinds of scenarios that could occur, but I'm only comparing double lung vs heart only shots. So what has been your experience?

My experience is that both hits put one down quick.

When the lungs are hit the heart is still pumping and filling the chest cavity full of blood. So the deer is dying from hemorrhage, suffocation, and pneumothorax all at the same time, so the deer dies faster. Now where you hit in the chest cavity will depend on how long it takes for the chest cavity to fill to that point to leave a heavy blood trail. That is why a lower hit in the chest or a lower exit wound will spill more blood to trail. A high double lung hit you are also hitting less lung tissue compared to a mid to lower hit. It will also depend on whether when the arrow impacts whether the deer is inhaling or exhaling on a high lung impact as to how much lung tissue you will actually get. Because the lung decreases in size at the exhale. good reason to always hit lower, then add adrenaline with that kind of hit. A broadhead through the heart the heart is still pumping some or a lot of blood into the vascular system depending on how the broadhead hits the heart. So the deer's has oxygen to still going into its system to carry it farther. If the broadhead only slices through the edge of the heart muscle, one atria, or one ventricle (especially the right ventricle) the heart will be in a weaken state but still pumping till it gives out. So the deer can go along way with a shot like that, especially with adrenaline, The best shot and a somewhat lucky one is if you cut through the aorta (main pressure line), the vascular system loses all pressure and the heart is pumping all blood that is returning from the lungs into the chest cavity, and make for a quick death. Just some reasons as to why a deer may go as far as they do or don't when we think we've made a good shot. DANNY

I think there are a lot of variables, and a.diuble lung can produce very different results depending on where you hit them in the lungs. I think that sometimes they aren't as stressed shortly after a lung hit, and that can make them slow down and stop a little sooner than that jolt to the heart. In general, I aim for the top of the heart where they meet the lungs to give some margin for error, but I almost always have a better blood trail from a heart shot, although sometimes the last 10 or 20 yards they seem to be empty.

The lungs are a bigger target, and if they can't breathe,they can't go far. I've personally seen heart shot deer...with a rifle, run several hundred yards. Adrenalin I suppose, but if they can't breathe, they ain't going far. I'll take a double lung thanks.

I like both. But the double lung shots have always seemed to go down faster for me.

I prefer double lung Ive seen heart shots go further. But Ive shot less deer than most on here.

I'm with Ollie.

Double lung....how far can they go on one breath?

Heart shot is deadly......I shot one bull elk that was fighting with another through the heart and he was pumping blood 8 feet out both sides....crazy, it looked like one of those big squirt guns.

I have seen animals go a long ways that were nicked in the heart...not right through the middle.

Heart, or lungs the animal is yours. With a rifle I have watched them run a fair distance with both lung ,and heart shots. Same with a bow. Shot deer through the liver that died much quicker than they should have.

Double lung

I agree that putting a hole in the arteries at the top of the heart create the a faster death than in the heart muscle or lungs.

My experience has been about the same runs for most of the whitetails whether heart or double lung shot. I have had a number of heart shot deer that didn't make it 50 yds but these were the exception. I hunt in very brushy thickets so the more blood on the ground, the easier my tracking jobs. Ive had my best trails w double lung and taking out arteries on top of heart.

My lung hit animals have gone no further than 75 yards, it does the job and when you run a wensel through them it's over.

I have found that deer whether shot through the lungs or heart are down within 80yds. My first moose,..lungs, and another heart shot with A Zwickey, both went about 200 yds. What does it prove? Not much..both shots are fatal..100%. Jigger

I like the boiler room the best but I’m ok with the heart shot.

I use Zwickey 2 blade heads and have most of my bowhunting years. Some deer that were hit with a double lung never even ran after the hit. The 1st time that happened I thought I missed. They would jump and look around then just start walking away, but not get very far then go down. The ones shot through the heart ran as hard as they could go for as long as they could, which wasn't long, but they covered more ground. Both shot are lethal no questions that. My heart shot deer as a general rule went further,but not always. I don't remember a time when I didn't have 2 holes. An entrance and a exit.

My experience has been, if the deer is calm and relaxed, it doesn't go far at all. If it was nervous or on edge it may go a long ways. It always amazes me what a deer can do when the adrenaline is up. On the other hand I've had them flinch a little or jump side ways when hit and go back to eating and die where they are standing. One heart shot 8 point died standing over my bedded doe decoy. These were all with compound bows, still waiting for my first trad kill. wpab

The heart is definitely a shot you should not go for because of it's small size. Shooting for the lungs is much better because it is a bigger target and if hit farther back a liver hit is usually good too.Some of my best blood trails have come from liver hits.

On the subject of bullet vs. arrow, I read about a Korean war vet who took a bullet to the chest. They patched him up, told him he was lucky it missed his heart and he healed pretty well. Many years later he got heart surgery and they found where the bullet had completely passed through his heart. Since it was in and out the atrium(low pressure side) it was able to clot and scar.

I've never had a double lung got more than about 65 yards except once on a moose but he didn't go much farther. Plus the lungs are a bigger target. I aim directly above what i call their elbow about 1/3 of the way up.

Both shots = a dead deer. I’ve had them continue to feed after a double lung hit like they weren’t even shot. But eventually keel over in five minutes or less. From loss of blood. I feel they don’t travel as far on a double long hit. But I will gladly take either one.

Big bucks will make their own blood, as a old timer told me. Seen them drop on the spot with a heart shot and other times had a long track on lungs and when shot in the grass bag with a snuffer they just folded up very quickly. As George started adrenaline can play a factor.

I will say on on a different note and species, of the 17 hogs that I killed in the last 6 months, 7 were heart shot ( a little luck and close range). Longest track was 50 yards and ranged from around 15 to 50, most around 35. My double lunge ranges between 30 and 70. Small sample size, but that is just this year. Hitting the heart does not preclude hitting lungs as well.

I've found that a heart shot will make a deer run hard and fast. It probably hurts more but does kill faster than a lung shot most times. But we have to remember when an animal is hurt it's adrenaline dump is instantaneous. Allowing it to cover some serious distance in seconds. That's why they are known to crash into trees and such on the run. But I've seen deer take a lung hit, and it acted like it got stung by a bee. Ran forty feet and stopped. Then fell over dead. I've seen this happen with deer, bear and moose. With both bow and rifle/pistol. So I can only think there's something to it.

I think that slipping between ribs and not breaking any bone with a sharp cut on contact head has a lot to do with how far they run. As stated above sometimes a deer doesn't even seem to know what happened. They hop one time then stop and stand there looking around. Then their legs start to wobble and they fall over. When they hit the ground they know something is wrong and then start to run while they're laying on their side. Heart or lungs? I'll take either but if I could pick I'd pick slipping between the ribs and not hit any bone.

I've always remembered something Robert Carter said on here: aim for that little white spot of hair right behind the deer's "elbow." If you hit it there, it's a heart shot. If the deer hears the string and crouches, it's a double lung. You win either way.

I think in my experience I would say double lungs drop faster in most cases for me. Plus it’s a lot bigger target.

I'm happy with either one, heart or lungs.I can't recall of any deer ever traveling more than 100 yds with a good heart or lung shot and most never made it 50 or 60 yds. When I first started bowhunting, and I've been at it for about 50 yrs, I carried a small booklet in my pack, "Trailing Tips" for tracking deer by Art Laha, and he always said on lung hits the higher you hit them the further they will go. I think 3 Rivers still carries that booklet. As far as lungs being a bigger target, aim small hit small.

I think you can live with a punctured lung or one lung. You can't live with a punctured heart.

I try for both lungs and occasionally I shoot low. I try to imagine where the arrow will exit when I pick the spot.

I have killed a lot of critters with both lung and heart shots...and some liver shots (not on purpose). They are both pretty effective, but I like the bigger target the lungs provide. When I first started archery hunting, in the early 80's I had a bad habit of always aiming/focusing on the heart. Unfortunately, I lost several deer that way. If you miss just forward or low of the heart....you have a wounded deer that you aren't likely to find. I focus on lung shots now and my kill percentage has gone way up. It's all double lung, or top of heart/low lungs for me now.

I thought that I would address a little misnomer that is often repeated. It is not really true that a heart that is shot stops pumping. It may pump in a disorganized fashion, but then end result is a greatly diminished ability to send oxygenated blood to the rest of the body where it is needed, most importantly the brain. Stating that a deer or any other animal can't go far with both lungs deflated as the rationale that they die with less distance traveled doesn't really make sense by itself if you look at the chain of events necessary to cause the brain to shut down. Still variables in play. Do you leak more blood out from the lungs in some cases because you hit major arteries or had more cross sectional area hit, combined with a comparison hit in the lower pressure atria of the heart rather than the ventricles? Does the muscular wall of the heart have a slower leak in that situation? I don't know. Interesting discussion, but I think that you just get what you get.

Made a less then perfect shot on a buck several years ago and new it was a bit back of what I wanted. Buck went about 40 yards all together in site and left a blood trail the Stevie Wonder could follow.... Liver hit.

Would I intentionally try for that hit, hell no. But man did he go down quick and like I said what a blood trail. 45# Widow MA with an Arrow Dynamics yellow Stinger and a Sasquatch BH. 18 yard shot not a complete pass through but point out one side and fletching out the other side.

I try and shoot for the double lung shot. If the deer is real close I'll tighten up a bit and go for that 2" circle where everything comes together....

JMHO

Double lung shot not as far,I also like the larger target area.Heart hit travels much farther.

My experience is long skinny broadheads seem to slide through with less force aka shock and the animal seems less scared at the hit and therefore doesn't seem to run as far, no matter if I hit heart or lungs. However, if I hit bone or use a wider head, the animal seems to run further after reacting more at the hit. Also, outside stimuli can cause the animal to run further on adrenalin regardless of the organs hit. I had a stricken deer get jumped from its deathbed and chased by a loose dog and it ran a remarkable distance. When I field dressed it the heart was mushy soft.

i'll take either one...both are meat in the freezer.

"heart only shots."

You have to pass through a lung to get to the heart.

Most of my deer have been shot from above. When my arrow pierced the heart, I may have only passed through one lung, yet the deer was dead in under a minute.

IMHO, how far they go is determined by the ground they must cover. Is it a hillside, is the vegetation dense, is it flat open ground? Was the shot a complete surprise to them, or were they somewhat aware of your presence?

I watched this deer approach my stand for forty five minutes before he cut my trail and then walked under my tree, looking for me, he moved slightly uphill from my tree. The shot was nearly straight down and it went through his chest at the bottom. As he ran off the arrow was pushed back up and I first thought I didn't get complete penetration. He traveled slightly over one-hundred yards, in a flash, and out of sight. I found him, as shown, headed away from my stand. You can see the blood at his muzzle, because it also came from his lung.

I seriously doubt a "heart only" happens very often.

Double lung.

I like a double lung

A killer understands whats necessary to constantly take animals not hoke and poke ideas.

All animals die buy bleeding out or suffocation in the normal realm of things.

The aim is to dispatch quickly. When an animal runs it builds adrenaline that can taint the taste of the meat so the longer the animal is on its feet the more it builds up and also thickens the blood to coagulate and can plug up a hole that's bleeding.

If the animal is shot in the chest areas or heavy veins it dies normally quick. Depending on shot how fast it dies will be determined by the shot either heart or lungs. I've had heart shots die right on the spot and watched the animal die after a jump that was really cool to see.

There are variables to every shot both good and bad ones.

Ideally we shoot for the battery box and the pump house to knock those out to dispatch quickly. Heart and lungs but sometimes we can only take the shot presented or let off after you have drawn down on him.

Any one who arrows any numbers of things over the years of their carriers killing things knows just what it takes as well as what can happen at times too. The ugly part of this also.

Shooting wild things is way different than targets.

No doubt that both shots will take an animal. Pros and cons for each I suppose. In my experience, a double lung shot will kill an animal faster than a heart shot. Most of my lung shot deer fall within eyesight and even if they head into thick brush and I cannot see them, I can generally hear them fall and thrash about. However, sometimes the lung shot results in a lesser blood trail.

In my experience, a heart shot will generally leave lots of blood to follow but deer can run a long way. Sometimes, more than you would ever expect.

Lung shots result in a shorter and more minimal blood trail and heart shots may result in a longer but more visible blood trail.

There are always exceptions but this has generally been my experience. Excellent topic.

Absolutely true. They are both fatal hits, but the double lung is a much faster put down.

I had one heart shot doe go nearly 300 yards before she gave up the ghost.

I hunt from the ground, and have never hit just the heart. Heart shots for me are also double lung. Double lung or double lung plus heart for me equal a short recovery.

Low lung shot for me.

Double lung for me, I hunt from the ground. Took 2 does last season and they only went 30 and 50 yards.

Most of my bow experience has been with hogs and low and tight gets good results with pass through shots. Three blade heads from 63-67# bows.

I prefer the double lung as it's a bigger target but the fastest I ever killed on was with a deflected arrow thru the guts. The deer jumped 10' stood there less than 5 seconds and fell over dead. Postmortem showed the broad head severed the kidneys from the artery.

I try to shoot through the lungs even when I'm hunting with a gun.

How does a diaphragm hit affect a deer? One or both lobes of the lungs are hit when the diaphragm is hit. But I have read that the diaphragm is the muscle of the lungs, without it's function the animal can't breath.

Pick a spot in the middle of the lungs. Hope for the best.

Good positive thread. I ,like some others, think about aiming at the top of the heart.

We have all ( or most) of us have shot deer in the heart and in the lungs. Some go long some don't.

I double lunged a doe using a metal point that went 1/2 mile and I double lunged a doe using a stone point that went around 40 yards.

I have never had one go 200 yards with a hole in it's heart.

either. Both deadly

" Deflating "is an interesting term to use for lung tissue.

Agreed, Missouribreaks. The lungs are not like balloons. This is a picture of the lung from the Cape Buffalo I shot last year. The. Broadhead went completely through one lung and was just touching the other. As you can see, it is not deflated.

I have no proof that a heart shot, or double lung shot, kills faster than the other. But then argument that the lungs are deflated doesn't really stand up for me. All the lungs do is allow oxygen transfer to the blood. If the blood doesn't get to where it needs to from the heart, it doesn't matter what the lungs do. There must be other variables in play if a double lung shot does actually kill more quickly.

If you hit them in the heart, you darn near missed them!

Glad hogs aren't like deer. These 4 from this year didn't make it 20 yards.

Glad hogs aren't like deer. These 4 from this year didn't make it 20 yards.

Glad hogs aren't like deer. These 4 from this year didn't make it 20 yards.

Glad hogs aren't like deer. These 4 from this year didn't make it 20 yards.

Glad hogs aren't like deer. These 4 from this year didn't make it 20 yards.

For me, the quickest downs have come with a diaphragm collapse. I had a Whitetail doe double lung go 400 yards once. I hit the high rear tips of the lungs above the liver. I also had a doe low forward double lung drop within 30 yards.

Saying that, I prefer a double lung low and forward near the heart. Forward angled. Clipping the diaphragm is a bonus.

Actually, that second from the bottom made it 50 yes. Wrong pic.

Let the air out. -lbg

With a hole in the lung cavity the diaphragm muscle pulls air in through the hole and very little through the windpipe. In that case the lungs neither deflate nor inflate enough to call it breathing.

Not really a metaphor, but ok.

Lungs, hypoxia kills in a few seconds. I have killed lots of deer with heart shots as well, if the heart can't pump blood to the brain, the results are the same.

It seems the consensus is that double lung kills faster. Maybe that is true. Maybe not. Faster and shorter track aren't necessarily the same. I would like to know for certain, as an academic matter, and to understand the mechanism. Regarding air not entering through the trachea when there is a hole in the side, I am not sure that is true, although once enough air gets in between the lungs and the chest wall at some point then lungs collapse. I am sure there are lots of factors in play. I think it was Shawn that had an example of the apes of the heart only being nicked. I can see where a deer hit like that could make it further. I wish that I had kept a journal of the distance and quality of blood trails for my archery kills, but never thought to do it. There would probably be enough info for a significant result.

Apex

I shoot for a double lung hit and don't worry about the heart. The lungs are a bigger target and just as deadly.

Heart shot always run like crazy.

Went 10 feet.

I aim for the heart and it's served me well through the years. Never shot an animal in the heart that caused me any tracking concerns. I can't say the same for some of my lung shots...especially on elk; they'll take you into the next mountain range on one lung!

Quite a few responses here. One thing I have noticed over the years is that time wise, there's not much difference between double lung or heart in how long they make it. One difference is a lot of time with the heart shot they run hard, covering more ground. There's always the exception. Not too many years back I had a heart shot buck go down within 40 yards. I was just curious if others had similar experiences. Its all good. Just thankful we have the privilege to bowhunt. Looking forward to making more memories. Good luck everyone on our fall season.

soap creek...yea I've had heart shot deer go down pretty quick, within sight anyhow.

I'm not sure I'm the best guy to add an opinion on this subject though. While I have shot a lot of deer so far in my time I rarely if ever analyze a shot. Oh I may notice the damage or lack of to the lungs, or notice a slit in the heart, while gutting. But I rarely ever give it much more than a passing thought. I guess I figure dead is dead be it from heart , lungs, liver whatever.

I've been really really spoiled in the last 10 years or so, I haven't had any that were tough to find. I think it was 2 years ago I shot an 8pt, shot was a pretty sharp angle down, I was pretty high up and he was below me. He actually went pretty far, In reality i'll bet it was only 150 yds though. But the arrow came out real low. I should have analyzed that when I gutted him, but didn't. Can't remember if I hit the heart or not? possible it was a one lunger?

last year one morning I shot a nice doe, she took off like a shot, but went down in sight. I actually never got down till it was time to leave a couple hrs later it was plenty cool, and I had a buck tag. When I went to gut her, I was running late and in a hurry, so again, never bothered analyzing much. Later in the late season I shot another button buck, same thing didn't go far, I didn't see it go down, but it wasn't far. I was soaked, cold and ready to get out of the woods, so again didn't bother looking when I gutted, but it wasn't a heart shot, I save the heart, I'd have noticed that.

I'm kinda of the school that its best if the arrow goes the whole way through if possible, that arrow flopping around might make them run farther ? But for sure what you do immediately after the shot makes the biggest difference.

If any of us were so overly concerned about the effectiveness of heart vs. lung shots we'd be aiming square between the eyes. They don't run at all if you hit 'em there..

As some others have suggested hitting the aorta or one of the main arteries close to the heart probably matters more than heart vs lung.

Lungs for sure in my experience. Regards

I’m happy when I hit either one or both. They usually don’t go far either way and leave a good trail. Last fall I hit a buck right above the heart. Must have taken out those arteries as he went 60 yards and down in about 3 seconds.

Ummm.... Guys?

You can’t get to the heart without going through the lungs. Maybe on a really steep angle you only get 1 lung. But the lungs wrap around the heart.

And I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but it was not all that long ago that I could swim two lengths of an Olympic size pool - down and back - without coming up for air. And I am by no means any kind of accomplished whatever, so that took some time.

The closer you get to the heart, the bigger the vessels tend to be; and pressure in a blood vessel goes up as the square of the diameter, so a vessel that’s just a little bit larger will bleed a whole lot more.

But the trouble with aiming for the heart is that you have to deal with heavier bones and thicker muscles. So even if you do get around the bones, there is a lot of resistance to airflow through the entry and exit wounds, which allows the lungs to continue to function pretty much normally until the blood loss becomes decisive.

So JMO, best bet is tight to the shoulder, 1/3 up. That gives you the most margin for error, and a perfect shot (AND hit!) will take out both lungs and some big pipes. And really, any 2-hole wound through the thoracic cavity is going to be lethal; just it might take a minute. That’s why we’ve been taught for at least the past 1000 years to give the animal 45 minutes to expire.

That's the spot I envision when it's time to pounce, in a sort of 3 dimensional fashion... I envision the top of the heart inside there, then pick the spot on the outside that'll get the arrow there. Not odd then to watch them fall within sight within 10 seconds.

I do not intentionally aim for the heart if I misjudged distance & thats where the arrow hits so be it. It has been my experience that heart shot deer go farther than lung shot. Iv had many a lung shot deer just jump & look around like what was that or take a few bounds & stop. But every deer iv ever shot in the heart has flipped out usually doing a big rear leg kick proceeded by tearing the woods apart getting out of there.

Timex X 2

but happy with either

Look up HYPOXIA.

I’ve made good shots on both heart and lungs yet have had mixed reviews on the outcome of each. I think the will and determination of an animal that’ is way tougher than some give them credit for can cause a variance in the outcomes regardless of shot placement.

I think I said it before, but I am where the top of the heart meets the lungs for margin of error. I am probably happier if I miss low than high. 90 percent of my hunting is ground level.

Aim

Especially since both the hogs and the deer around here are usually ducking after the shot.

And that is what I hit on this hog tonight. I was a little above her. Cut the main vessels coming out of the heart. Crazy blood trail for all of 25 yards. Good thing too. A storm blew in shortly after I recovered her.

Timex, my experience is the same as yours. When I said I aim for the top of the heart, I mean the very top edge of it, trying to slice the arteries off of it... no coincidence that that's center lung too. If its a little lower - heart. Higher - lung.

I remember a certain buck I shot in the heart that mule kicked like you said.... his back legs and rear end went so high he almost did a back flip. He went 20 yards, if that.

Lungs or heart?.... I prefer double lung, but heart shots work well enough to be a very, very close 2nd.

Heart vs Lung, Sounds like me in the mountains :^)

No worries. You are entitled to your opinion, but I post things the way they are.

I think alot of folks take the time to clean things up for their photos, but most of mine are in the middle if the night just snapping a few pics before the processing begins. Don't have the time or inclination to pretty them up. I am not really sure that we do any harm posting things the way they really are, and anyone interested in trad archery needs to learn the realities at some point, but I most definitely am not rebuking you for your opinion.

Imo,the best is to take out the plumbing going into and out of the heart. Heart keeps a pumping til the tank is dry.

I've had mixed results with heart shots vs only lungs. With most heart shots, they panicked and ran further than most lung only shots...especially so when the broadheads sliced thru lungs without hitting a rib. Had them react like said above, anywhere from jump off a couple yards and continue browsing or walking and drop within seconds. Had an old buck that was just standing at the shot checking a scrape just shiver and drop right there...thought I missed! Going through lungs and either one or both ribs...I'd have to say they ran a bit further.

A heart shot without hitting that forward pipeline, resulted in most cases a 50 to 70 yard drop. I shot a huge bodied mature buck low into the heart and lungs on probably the the most intense evening hunt during the very peak of the rut I've ever experienced. Had three bucks come into my calls all at the same time. And there was all kinds of action going on with a couple of bucks (or more) and does about a 100 yards from me. After the shot, he ran straight away from me and got to the edge of the ravine approx 40 yards where I could see him do that death dance when another buck charged into him as he struggled to stay up. I watched him fall down and the other buck gore at him until he caught my movement coming down off my stand. From shot to drop was no more than 10 seconds.

I aim for the heart, a bit forward and high. Best shot for a dead deer quick...but those no rib mid-lung shots have made some very short drop in sight recoveries for me.

Heart or Lung shot? I will gladly take either one!

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