OK everyone, I keep seeing videos that people post and they are driving me crazy. I understand people want help with their form or shooting style, but you have to sit back, watch your own video and do some self critique.

So here I am going to talk about the biggest issue I continue to see that no one addresses. EXCESSIVE MOVEMENT during and after the shot. One thing that drives me crazy is when you see people's string hand going 2 feet behind their heads when they shoot thinking that this is "Good" form. The other thing that drives me crazy is seeing people moving their bow around immediately after releasing the arrow. Excessive movement is the enemy of good shooting.

I have taught several people to shoot traditional, especially those who switched over from compound bow. Unfortunately they forgot how to shoot compound bows and go crazy with their recurve's / longbow's in their hands. When shooting a compound with a release, the key is to hold up the bow and NOT move your draw hand. This same aspect can be transferred directly to a trad bow. STOP moving your draw hand. Hold it against your face to stop moving after the shot. Flailing your draw hand backwards after the shot causes severe impact issues all over the target. Because excessive MOVEMENT causes different impact issues all over the target. This is also one of the main reasons why people can't bare shaft tune. their form is terrible and they move too much after the shot. Any additional movement is transferred to the bow, and movement transferred to the bow is transferred to the arrow. So Stop! Hold your hand against your face after the shot to stop excessive movement. It is very easy to do, of course it takes time to get used to and it helps if you have someone watch you to tell you when you don't do it correctly.

Some say you can't use Back tension doing this and that is essential to good shooting. That is OK! Less movement and consistent shot sequence IS more important than Back Tension. Watch Howard Hill, Fred Bear, etc. NONE of them had perfect form. They were CONSISTENT and it WORKED. So don't worry if you have perfect form, JUST BE CONSISTENT! For example, Fred Bear was a Snap Shooter, which is considered a SIN today, but it works for some. So as long as you are consistent, shoot! Also watch video's of Fred Bear and Howard Hill, you will NEVER see them flailing around after the shot. They are almost perfectly still until the arrow impacts the target.

Another big one is that everyone critique's that dropping the bow causes shots to impact low, so everyone works on holding the bow up, but no one talks about holding the bow ON TARGET! All coaches will tell you that holding the bow or gun for that matter on target is the most important aspect of the shot. If you do not hold the bow on target (with a compound we focus on keeping the sight pin on target) UNTIL the arrow has already impacted the target, YOU WILL MISS!!! Also any movement of the bow, left, right, up or down will affect where the arrow impacts. So again STOP moving! Don't move the bow after the shot!

So everyone who feels you need to post a video, watch your own video and if you are MOVING a lot during or after the shot, work on it! If you don't believe that this will work, there are several great archers and coaches who preach exactly what I am saying. One that comes to mind is Rick Welch. As a matter of fact that is probably where I learned to hold my hand against my face after the arrow is released. DON'T MOVE and you WILL be more consistent and accurate!

If you salty dogs have anything to add please do! I am always looking for ways to improve my shot.

Good Shooting!

Where to begin???????????????????//

One way to release is continual movement. From the second you start draw until after the arrow is in the target.

I've see a lot of bad formm but have never seen 2 feet behind the head.

The hand should always end up behind the draw side ear. It eliminates any plucking.

The other way to release is to stop at alignment and the start drawing again (back tension) until your fingers come off the string. After that the string hand end up behind the ear.

Just go look at the Lancaster Clasic any year. You won't find one guy ending without his hand behind his ear.

Bowmania

If you truly use your back muscles and relax your hand and forearm you hand has to fly back, but i've never seen what you said. Your back muscle and your forearm/hand are separate from your back so if you truly use just you back it continues to pull after the release. Kina like having a tug o war and your aponate lets go, you fall on your butt. Anyhow using the backs not the only way to shoot but the guys who hand flys back are using it.

Thanks Bowmania, the guys on lancaster have been shooting for so long that it is instinctive. The guys that need to stop doing this are the ones that just started shooting and think they are foing it right, but moving all over the place.

I started shooting with my hand against my face because I had a tendency to over do it and pull too much or pluck the string, thinking I was pulling straight through. So I video'd myself and found I wasn't always doing it the same way. Especially when I was getting tired. SonI was not being consistent which affected my shots. As Mr. Welch would probably say "It works great when you do it all the time, you just don't do it all the time."

That is why I said to stop all movement during and after the shot. It is easier to achieve consostency when you do.

X2 RICK3

I do agree with most of that, but I judge good form by how their arrows are grouping. Proper expansion through the shot can look different on different folks I guess.

I would love to not move my bow at the shot. It seems like because I'm push-pulling that the bow goes forward or maybe even down ward sometimes. I've not found a cure for it no matter what I try.

A guy I shoot with looks like he is striking the pose John Travolta did on the dance floor during the movie Saturday Night Fever. I know you all seen the movie, you don't have to admit it on here or to anybody out loud.

Five seconds after the arrow hits the target his arm is still extending above and behind his head with his thumb, pointer finger and middle finger pointed toward the target. It is by far the longest most exaggerated movement by a string hand I have ever seen by an archer.

It looks crazy to me and you would never get away with it hunting but he does it all the time and shoots above average so I guess like was said above, as long as your consistent with what you do about anything goes. Good Day

I know the exaggerated string hand movement that Rick3 is talking about very well. And I'm guessing that lots of others do as well.

It's the movement that happens as a delayed reaction to achieve the highly sought after "2nd anchor" that has become all the rage in some circles. The release happens, the shot is gone, and then the archer moves the string hand to the rear. It is NOT a result of back tension it is a result of thinking "oh yeah, I need to move my hand now".

Back tension is very important. The problem is that back tension is very poorly explained most of the time.

A good release doesn't lookexactly the same for everyone, nor should it.

This refers to a fundamental challenge in archery. At release, the right and left arms do (are supposed to do) the exact opposite. One should relax and the other should be rock solid.

I agree with Todd. That hand coming back is a product of back tension and is a good thing.

It's not a good thing if it's an exaggerated movement. The exaggerated movement typically cannot be duplicated consistently, and therefore has nothing but a detrimental affect on the actual follow through of the shot (which is in the bow arm).

IF it is a product of "back tension" then it can be a good thing. But, in the majority of people it is not.

My post specifically referenced the movement as a product of back tension and that is a good thing. I think most understand this.

I really don't think that most do. Simply because I don't think they actually know what back tension is honestly.

If its a reflex action its back muscles. If theres a slight pause that looks like they're conciously bring the hand back its nothing to do with proper back tension.

Good form is essential. With good form shooting 30 yards is no different then shooting at 10 yards. I peronally group as good at extended ranges as I do at what I consider hunting ranges, ie 8 to 22 yards. Archery, like most sports takes practice to become profissent. As in most sports confidence is of the utmost importance, I see people on here post, they shoot prety good at 20 yards and am working to extend my accuracy to 25 yards. If an archer can consistantly group at 20 yards, that same archer can group at 40 yards as well. You simply have to believe, confidence is very important.

Like I said above, the problem is excessive movement. I learned archery shooting a compound bow with fingers, not a trad bow. I was taught to pull thru the shot amd end up with my string hand on my shoulder. But had to realize that I wasn't always doing it correctly. By taking advice from great coaches and excellent archers I have learned consistency and became proficient.

When I see someone over stretch thinking that they are using "Back Tension", I like, most of us can see that it is artificial and detrimental. To use proper back tension you have to stop your shot process and actually begin using different muscles to pull thru the shot. By applying the same principles I learned with a compound and with a little advice from very good shooters I have learned that stopping the shot sequence, holding my form and stopping ALL movement, I have eliminated several issues that cause bad shooting form and inconsistencies.

I learned early to hold the bow with my bow arm fully extended and pull the string not push the bow. By doing this I always hold my bow arm / hand still and only pull with my string arm. But my bad habits started when I released the string. I would sometimes pull perfectly, then the next shot over extend which caused me to over stretch and move my bow hand too much, or even pluck the string.

By stopping my string hand and locking it to my face I can repeat my form everytime with very little effort and no excessive movement. So I am trying to pass on a simple method to help others be more consistent and be able to accurately judge when they are not.

I said most understand this. Didn't say that most executed it correctly--whether they do or don't I nor anyone else have no way of knowing without seeing them shoot.

I believe Rick's fingers are still in contact with his face until the arrow has moved forward. Then he waves at folks. It probably distracts the shooter next to him as well as others. Lots of physcology in the games.>>>----> Ken

I'm a believer on release to "bring your shoulder blades together". In other words, good back tension. I want my draw hand coming straight back on release, with my fingers keeping contact with my cheek. Its nigh impossible (or at least you'd have to work on it) to have your hand fly sideways off your face by doing this...a straight back release.

I also watch the arrow hit the target over my bow arm...I NEVER drop my arm til well after impact...both hands. I cant tell how many deer I've shot, and watched run off...marking the last spot I see em...with both arms remaining in my follow thru posture. Yeah, I might lower my bow arm slightly, but I hold the follow thru.

20 plus years ago I found a John Shulz video at a yard sale, Hitting em like Howard Hill.Something to be said for a guy who was taught by the man him self. John explains the hunters bow form which can be vastly different from a target archer. I'll never forget the explanation of a secondary anchor point after the string is released, this is very important and builds consistency. The bow hand stays true pointing towards your target until the arrow reaches its mark. I used to tell my son when he was young to play like a statue after release and only when the arrow stops moving can you relax. You guys should go hit youtube and watch those old Shulz videos, sometimes getting back to basics is all we need.

Best Dave

After watching myself on video I realized I really need to work on keeping my bow arm solid and body like a fence post. This is great advice. Thanks!

Once the arrow is gone you can dance a jig and it does not matter. What you do after it is gone means nothing.I shot an arrow today and came in an got a drink of water and it did not change the bad shot I made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlGBbWRrFe8

There is a YouTube video on the release. It shows many shooters all with the hand slipping back. The thing is that it shows the true releases and points out the manufactured exaggerated ones.

The thing about recommending a release glued to the face sounds like a recipe for the dreaded static release. (For me anyways)

FDP puts it best, there is more than one way to do a thing. Find what works for you.

I kinda gotta agree with a number of the post..first the hand going back is just a result of tension being suddenly gone from your draw hand.

But watching some people shoot I have to agree with the OP some of it looks a little exaggerated or even purposely done.

If your hand flies back a bit, (as mine does) it just automatically does it..i don't do it.

My draw hand always seems to end up right about my ear. As far as a good solid bow hand I agree. I don't know how anyone else shoots, don't matter either.

I will say this though...if you have good accuracy with the way you shoot, regardless if its a bit different than what you see or hear on the internet, I'd ignore it.

Back when I first got internet...I shot good, then with internet I began seeing all kinds of advice from (experts) and started messing with the way I shot and my accuracy went south. I finally got smart and just ignored it...haven't had a problem since...If you have no problems, don't try and fix it.

BREAKING FORM NO OTHER. NOT KNOWING WHERE TO LOOK. NOT LEARNING HOW TO COMPENSATE . NOT KNOWING YOUR BOW. ON AND ON AND ON.

Thanks for all the info guys!

The one thing that I see alot woth people posting videos is how much they move before and after the shot. The reason I am posting this is because I have learned from my own experience that I am much more accurate and consistent by stopping the excessive movement that I saw I was doing on video.

There are a million ways to do anything but the number 1 issue I have ever seen woth anyone shooting a bow inconsistently is movement. Too much movement! Most people think that if you move after the shot is gone it is ok. The problem is that people don't realize that that movement actually started before rhe arrow was gone and had an immediate impact on the arrow before it left the bow.

One thing I was trained to do as a rifleman in the Marine Corps was to use that movement and break the shot when my sights were where I wanted the shot to land. But not very many people are taught or understand how to do this consistently.

For the new shooters that don't understand what they are doing wrong it usually comes down to movement. If you over extend your string hand the movement affects your bow hand due to the amount of tension in your body. If you incorrectly use back tension you affect your whole body and then everything goes to pot.

One thing you will notice in Rick's form is that after the shot his hand waves around like a flag in the wind, but his draw forearm, elbow and wrist never move. There is no extra movement in his body, not just his arm / hand. That is the key!

As for bow movement I watched a video about Kartra (spelling) and how it helped with the arrow flight. Watched it in slow motion and the arrow was past the riser when he moved the bow out, it did nothing for or to the arrow.

The release with your hand going back, Tom Klum ( not sure of name or spelling) put out a video were he says to imagine a ping pong or golf ball on your shoulder and as you release your hand slides straight back and grab the ball. It made a lot of sense to me.

Out of all the people who agree with me, I'm most impressed with Einstein. I think he even said on a subject that might be related to this, "for every action there is an equal, but opposite reaction".

Think of that and the tight to the face anchor. You're pulling back and when you get to anchor, you have to continue pulling back, but in addition you have to push towards your face. That's doing two things at the same time and should be avoided, it can't be through most of the sequence, but no sense adding another. (aiming and BT)

Now at the second of release we have two forces to deal with. The natural behind the arrow force and the pushing towards the face action. So the natural reaction according to Einstein is going to be back towards the ear and also away from the face a pluck.

I've said a number of time on here that there is no such action as a release (and follow through). Everything you do before the release is an action and the release and follow through are reactions. You can't have a good solid shot without a good reaction. You may have good results, but that's another story.

One more thing, Rick Mckinny suggests that one of the ways to release is continual movement. It's of course faster in the beginning, but continues past anbhor. He claims it's the eaiest way to get your fingers off the string.

Bowmania

The Newtonion "equal and opposite reaction force" isn't responsible for the posterior movement of the string holding hand. The reaction force experienced is the balance of two forces that enables the archer to come to anchor and stay there ... force being applied to bend the bow ... reaction force of the bow trying to straighten. When each of these opposing forces are equil the draw remains stable and fixed.

The Posterior movement of the string hand is a result of the release of the residual elastic / spring mass energy stored within the muscleoskeletal dynamic spring mass system of the arm, pectoral girdle and thorasic spine.

Google Muscle spring mass dynamics

IF YOU HAPPEN TO GO TO A SHOOT AND SAY THERE'S A LOT OF TARGETS IF YOUR NOT CONDITIONED FATIGUE CAN SET IN AND REALLY CAUSE SO BAD HABIT SHOOTING ISSUES. BEST TO STOP AT THE POINT OF FATIGUE WITHOUT SCREWING YOUR SELF UP WORSE GETTING A MEMORY CONDITION REPEATING A BAD HABIT.

Beware of the man who says he knows the right way to shoot a bow! there are many paths to good results and good results are all that matters. In short there is no right way,

I agree 100% grouchy.

The reason I started this thread was to discuss the biggest issue I see with almost all new and some experiences archers. With out going into physics class and explaining that equal and opposite reactions are imparted in a system and although the archer holds and pulls the bow, they are not actually part of the system. I will state this: everyone wants to shoot like Tom Klum, Fred Bear and all the greats, but the biggest problem remains to be excessive movement imparted on the bow by the Archer.

I always thought my hand always ended up on my shoulder till a video told me it didn't. It was a matter of me not knowing that I was imparting too much artificial movement on the system. I have seen tons of guys shoot great and look like they are flailing in the wind. The point is that I and most shooters cannot do it. The ones who try the hardest are the ones that are frustrated and stop shooting because they think they are being consistent, but noone is around that can help them understand that they truly aren't.

I picked up a method of shooting that allows me to stop all of my movement and allow the system to work without me imparting unnecessary movement on it. I understand everyone knows everything, but it would take days for me to address all the incorrect assumptions noted above.

I simply want to try to help people understand that just because Fred Bear snap shot does not mean that they will be able to. I can snap shoot well, but when I start getting tired it all goes to crap. So I found a way to calm myself down and stop imparting movement on the system so the system can do what it was designed for.

Good shooting everyone!

I picked up a tip years ago from watching Jeff Kavanagh on youtube. He talked about stopping your fingers on the bottom of your ear as a 2nd anchor point after you release the arrow and that really helped me make sure my release was smooth and my hand went straight back without plucking. Thanks Jeffer!

I do not let anything in archery "drive me crazy". I keep it fun and do not let emotions become part of my process. For 55 years bow and arrow hunting has remained exciting, and highly productive. I always keep it fun and low key, and let the processes evolve with my aging body. No mind games.

Guys -

The biggest issue with this thread, and OK, the Internet in general, is that one guy relates his experience and make a blanket statement about it.

As far as the release is concerned, some movement away from the path of the arrow IS natural and confirms adequate back tension at the instant of release. Sure, some people over exaggerate it, but even a half way decent coach/instructor can tell a faked follow-through from a real one.

Viper out.

And then there was Howard Hill, who said “Upon release, both hands do nothing.” Some call it the dead release.

Holcomb hit something that other have mentioned and I do not think it meams what others think it means. Training to end up with your fingers near your ear after the release of the string is a trained movement to ensure that the fingers and hand do not move excessively. But an anchor is not a movement, an anchor is a place to anchor some part of your body in this case your hand to another area of your body. For some it is a finger in the corner of the mouth olympic shooters put their hand under the corner of their chin.

I personally have 2 anchors, middle finger in the corner of my mount and thumb locked under my jaw. I could have 3 anchors, the fletching touching the tip of my nose bit I had a bad habit of releasi g the arrow as soon as the feather touched my nose and that was affecting my shots.

But Uncle Lijah hit something else that I have read and specifically discuss above. After the shot keep your body in the exact position it was prior to the release of the arrow, or a dead release.

There are a million ways to do it right, but thos one is the most consistent I have found and it works well, so I wanted to pass on this information. There is no assumption that all shooters who move shoot badly. My assumption was that based upon my experiences and what I see newer shooters doing, stopping excessive movement is the best way to start shooting consistently.

Thanks!

https://youtu.be/rzj4FFi7wt8

This is what the perfect transfer to back muscle and release looks like. This is france and korea individual gold final. Watch the french guy peek 2 times and where his arrow hits

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