I would like to hear from those who have actual experience. How much difference do you see when changing the side plate left or right.I am not asking about adjusting a plunger, I am talking about adjusting the thickness of the side plate. Example, right handed shooter, arrow hitting left or right of center. If you have changed the thickness of your side plate to get a more center hit, how much difference have you found it can make? 2" change at 20 yds, 4" change at 2o yds? What have you found? Please don't talk about shaft spine, I am aware of that, I would like to hear from those who have changed the side plate, and how much, and what difference it has made for you. I have been making some changes myself and would like to compare what I have found to what you have found.

I shoot Velcro side and bottom. Just went and looked a my Bear TD A riser, it has Two sided carpet tape under the side to build it out.

Mine is not a stock riser, the shelf has been lowered and made more center shot.

I shoot slightly canted, 3 under. The shaft is directly inline and below my eye. Don't look at the shaft, just focus on the target.

Adjust nock and plate to tune direction.

John, I have a Frankenbow that is cut near 1/4" before center and I did have to move it out. Now I'm shooting a stick on rest and no button (plunger) and I had to bring it out about an 1/8th of an inch to shoot the line. Don't know if that helps you or not.

You change the side you change the tune. Alot of us old timers do it the old way. We cut our arrows to the length we want them and tune the bow by changing side plate thickness a little at a time. Its no different than moving plunger in or out.

George, when you brought it "out" how much difference did it make on the left/right point of impact on target and at what range?

In other words you tuned the bow to adjust for weak shaft.

As stated in original post, this is not a question about spine, I understand a stiff shaft will hit left for RH shooters and hit right if shaft is weak. The question is about how much have you found it changes point of impact when you change the thickness of the side plate.

I sorry John, but it is a question of spine if you are looking down the arrow shaft and aligning the point with the center of your intended target. If you are not doing that, its impossible to give you an answer, there's too many factors involved. If your arrows are impacting the target left or right of your point of aim, then changing the thickness of the sideplate is a tuning procedure to correct for incorrect spine, for the present sideplate thickness.

That being said, the easiest way to make corrections if your shooting to the right (right hand shooter)is start with layers of tape and just keep building it out until you shoot the line. Then measure that thickness and replace with a strike plate of a corresponding thickness.

Bob

Okay, I guess my question was not clear. I have found that when I change my side plate thickness it makes almost no difference where the arrow hits, left or right. That just makes no sense to me so I thought I would get some input from others who have changed their side plate to see it they have the same result or maybe I did not change the thickness enough. I'm not really trying to change the point of impact, I was doing some experimenting with the side plate to watch arrow flight and was surprised the point of impact did not change much at all. No big deal, just like to try things to learn for myself. I've seen things here in the past where some have wanted to change point of impact left or right and some suggested to change side plate. I was surprised at the results.

I've never measured how much a given thickness of side plate material affects impact. On bows cut past center, I build out the side plate so the right side of the point of my arrow just touches the left side of the string when viewed from behind the bow. That usually is right on for me. Then, I shoot the line and adjust accordingly. Doesn't really make any difference what distance I take these shots at. I'm either on line or not.

I believe you're looking for a formula that doesn't exist. Adjusting the side plate x amount will have different effects on different bows with different shooters, etc. You'll have to arrive at your own formula through trial and error.

Not looking for formula, I am sure arrow length point weight etc all has an effect, just wanted to listen to others experiences when changing side plates. I think I am getting no real answers because it makes almost no difference. If people have changed the thickness and seen a big difference they would have stated so. Again, I was surprised to see almost no change, wanted to see if others had experienced. I thought someone might say something like, "I changed from a thick velcro side plate to a thin leather side plate and found my arrows hit 4" left" or "I put a toothpick behind my side plate to move it out and the arrow hits 4" right," something similar.

SR -

While we can't directly answer your question, try the same experiment with bare shafts and report back. Same old, same old; a little air resistance at the tail end can cover a multitude of sins.

Viper out.

Viper nailed it. I've watched a top shooter tuning his set up and "ONE" thickness of electrical tape made a visible difference bare shafting.

Viper, great suggestion.

John, it brought it to center and that would be for any range. Shooting the line is the same at five yards as it is a 70 yards and that is what I always look for. I rarely have any issues once center is realized. And by the way, I only have one bow like that. Now, being good enough to stay on the line is a personal issue, and sometimes I have to be reminded of that. ;)

Never gave it much thought. I have a lot of bows with all sorts of different riser cuts. If the arrows fly good they seem to shoot the line and switching from a center cut to one that is cut well before center isn't something I think about. Not saying it doesn't effect left and right, but I don't notice it.

John, I think what you are looking at is similar to how Rick Welch uses different sideplate materials to get the bow to hit where the shooter looks. Thicker softer materials-- he uses velcro and i believe martin rug rest material to get the arrow hitting more to the left for a right hander. It has to do with the sponginess of the material and how it places the arrow in your vision. As you said it is not focusing so much on spine. Im probably not explaining it too well, but ive gotten 4 or 5" adjustment changes just by going with thicker softer materials.

A little thickness goes a long ways. Even using a smaller diameter arrow makes a difference for me.

The softer material can act as a plunger. I use a plunger on my RU bow. I can adjust the spring pressure and can move it in or out to tune. But I have a bow I shoot in modern longbow that can not have a plunger. I have been playing with the side plate on that bow. I have a very bad left shoulder and shoot only 30 lbs so I am limited on the arrow spines available that are the length I need for point on aiming.I can add plenty of weight to get the left right spot on, but changing the side plate thickness seems to do almost nothing for me. Anyhow, just playing around and asking questions from others with actual experience. I tired the bare shaft test a hour or so ago. Bare shafts are flying great, but changing side plate thickness made almost no difference in left/right.

SR -

Kinda depends on how psychotic you want to get - and yes, I'm being serious... Your LB can have plunger. While I'd never suggest anyone deliberately shoot cock feather in (unless they bought the wrong arrows and couldn't change them or get new ones), shooting cock feather in and choosing the right feather height and stiffness, can make the feather act as a plunger. Sure you'll get accelerated cock feather wear, and it's frankly way more trouble than it's worth, but it can "be made" to work.

Just sayin'

Viper out.

John, I too find very little difference with changes in side plate thickness. IMO, if you shoot gap with the arrow point on the vertical line of the target and the nock aligned below your eye you are "aiming the arrow" and it will fly down the line regardless of strike plate thickness. It may not fly well if the spine is off, but will generally go where it is pointed at the moment of release. Now if you aim the bow, and disregard or "don't see" the arrow then yes, I think side plate thickness will move your point of impact. No expert here, just my observations.

I got a new Condor longbow from Wild Horse Creek back in February. Great bow. But I kept shooting to the right with it. I messed with arrows and different point weights. I shoot wood arrows. Something about the bow and grip was different. I ended up putting a small strip of leather behind strike plate and bingo. I was dead on left and right. Something else I’ll mention. I don’t agree with the stiffer spine arrow shooting to the left as everybody says. I’ve noticed this for many years. Messing with this bow I took 8 arrows and removed the 145 grain points and put 125 grain points on 4 of them and 160’s on 4 of them. So putting a lighter point on should stiffen the arrow. The impact of the 125 moved further right and the 160’s moved to the left. Opposite reaction of what everybody says

Sipsey. You and I must have been typing at the same time after aromaker's response above. I didn't see yours before I responded.

Anyway, as Viper notes, feathers make a big difference. Also, it's been my experience that most bows will shoot a range of arrow spines quite well. I can overspine almost any of my bows by up to 15# and sometimes more than that and get good arrow flight.

SO, UNLESS THE ARROW YOU'RE SHOOTING IS ON THE MARGIN, SPINEWISE, FOR YOUR BOW, YOU LIKELY WOULD NOT SEE MUCH CHANGE IN ARROW IMPACT WITH A MODEST CHANGE IN SIDEPLATE THICKNESS.

I’ve got to agree with Mahantango. A fletched arrow that is reasonably well tuned will fly straight down the line it was on at release.... so all the in/out adjustments will mess with your tune, but shouldn’t change your POI unless/until your tune is well off of the mark.

Bare shaft should/would be a very different story.

I suppose you could make the case that a “pure instinct” aiming technique would be different, because the bow itself would be pointed right at the center of the bull regardless....

So let’s keep the math simple... If you move the point of a 30” arrow 1/4” to the left... 30” = 2.5 feet, so at 25 yards...

.25”/2.5 feet = 2.5” at 25 feet = 7 1/2” at 25 yards.

My experience is that every 1/16" difference in sideplate thickness is the equivalent of about 1 spine group.

The affect that this has on POI is based on lots of shooter dynamics.

Vipor, yes, the feather can have slightly the same effect as a plunger, I have done that sometimes in the past to get good flight or to change impact point slightly. When I stated longbow can't have plunger, I was referring to rules for modern longbow class.

I’ve been tuning my Gillo target bow and depending on the setup sometimes little difference with fletched arrows but bareshafts yes. I try to get bareshafts to group with my fletched arrows if possible, sometimes it’s a losing battle. But then moving just the fletched arrows can be accomplished with plunger tension.

“ I try to get bareshafts to group with my fletched arrows if possible, sometimes it’s a losing battle.”

That makes no sense. There is no such thing as a bow that can’t be tuned.

Every bow seems to be different. For some bows adding a single piece of rubber band for a pressure plate makes a big difference, for others adding a thick pressure plate does not. Those cut past center are effected least. In my expereince bows cut 1/8" out from center are easiest to tune and most consistant to shoot.

It can be a losing battle if arrow spine is too far off, no amount of tuning can make up for that. Amazing how much fletching makes up for bad tune.

If you are getting contact & wear when shooting cock fletch "in", then you aren't tuned.

It's as simple as that, but don't blame it on the fletch orientation.

Rick

Oh and Sipsey River, to answer your question:

While I can't give an exact amount of change at the target (that'll be different from one bow setup to the next),

I can see a difference in as little as 1/4 turn of the bolt on an adjustable strike plate. That ain't much in fractions of inches.

Rick

There are two factors involved when changing strike plate position.

One of them obviously is tuning.

Anyone know what the other is?

Rick

well after 3 shoulder surgerys and in dec had no 4 back surgery which was a fussion job sold boths bows, but kept quivers arrows and gloves. now have ordered new bearpaw quick stick hyrbid longbow not shot yet but love looks of it-- now it is has radiss shelf and cut to almost center i do not like their small thin rest want a bear rug that i have like a long rug to help keep arrow noise down, looking at the bear leather side plate, it is kind of thick i want something on side not sure what to do yet but enjoying the problem dr

I will go with the old experts who say we cannot tell you. Too many variables and too much subconscious compensation. Like so many fine points in archery you will have to work it out for your own self, by hand, eye and mind. - lbg

I'm shooting an A&H with a velcro side plate, fuzzy side. I can't recall exactly what arrow I was shooting but they were flying great. I'll be honest, as I sit here typing I can't remember if they were hitting right or left, but whatever, they weren't hitting where I was aiming.

Decided to build out the strike plate just to see what effect that would have. I cut a short piece of a Q-tip stem, put it behind the side plate, and, voila, those same arrows were hitting dead center.

So in my case, it definitely had an effect.

I never really thought about it before. After a few shots my mind makes the adjustment and I'm back on track again.

Bow, rest, arrow, whatever - make a change and shoot some arrows. They start going where I want pretty quick.

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