I am left handed and shoot to the right quite often. I am sure its in my form. I shoot a tradtech titan lll. I removed the grip and wrapped the handle with rubber tape. This makes the grip more narrow. Do you think I am torking the riser because the grip is more narrow, making the grip less for giving?

Hard to say since we can't see you shoot. Are you saying you are shooting to the left now, or you want to shoot to the left?

Why did you remove the grip to begin with?

If you look at the high end compounds, a lot of them have very slim grips on the theory that they reduce torque.. but those guys are pretty much all shooting overdraws which multiply the effect of any torque and most of us here have the contact point with the arrow directly over the deepest part of the grip.... which should be the axis around which any rotation due to torque would occur....

I don’t think it’s your grip; or I guess I should say that I don’t think it’s the grip on your bow. Might be HOW you grip it. If it were me, it would most likely be because my anchor point is too far out on the side of my face and my nock was not under my eyeball where it belongs. Because if you anchor anywhere but plumb below the pupil of your dominant eye, you have to triangulate every shot to some degree. If your anchor is consistent, at least that limits the variables that you have to solve for, but personally I prefer to know exactly where my arrow is pointed on every shot....

Also a lefty , I shoot to the right often and it invariably corrects when I am more conscious of my bow hand (right) follow through or by weakening the arrow spine.

TM -

I have no idea, and neither does anyone else responding here. Are you shooting 1" right @ 20 yards consistently, or 12" right. Are all the arrows going right of center, or 90%, 50%, 20%?

I will say that probably 98% of the time, unless you're in the 280+ range on the blue target, shooting off center means you're aiming off center.

Viper out.

It's most likely your bow arm shifting to the right upon release. Your bow arm controls your front sight, and it has to stay rock solid.

Are you being consistent on keeping your eye over the shaft?

Short draw. Hit your anchor and your

If you want to tighten a screw as tight as your muscles would allow, would you choose a screw driver with a one inch diameter handle or two inch. You can torque more with the two inch.

Same but opposite with a grip.

As Viper says we don't have an idea, but like everything else on here we can speculate and I'd speculate collapse. Makes the arrow stiffer and bounces off the shelf and goes right for a lefty.

BUT I don't have to speculate what causes collapse, so we don't speculate on everything, lol.

Bowmania

Put the grip back on and it will get better. .5x2=? You lose close to an inch of draw length in terms of how much the limbs open at full draw.

It will improve but going thru a slow cutting process with your desired components and a full length shaft is the best way to get a shaft down the line.

You can trim big silencers to also help matters. The bow will be quieter anyways once the shift is right. I shoot my course with bareshafts in the quiver and take whatever shot is in front of me when I get to it.

I shoot lefty also. Things that make me hot to the right:

My eye is not over the arrow--- you need to have not only the point aligned, but the nock. If the nock is to the left of the point you are aimed to the right, thats where your arrow will go.

My string arm elbow is not in line with my bow hand/ arrow. Focusing on form and back tension corrects this.

People are quick to blame too stiff of spine. That sure can do it, but my arrows are well tuned so spine isn't an issue. When my arrows hit other than down the line it is me--- lapse in focus or form.

op, type in. Back tension & trust

When I put a laser on the end of my arrow, I saw that they went exactly where they were pointed. My anchor 3 under is the top of the upper tooth two back from my canine. That moves the nock of the arrow for a right handed shooter farther out from the eye and means the arrow goes left.

Believe what Viper say.He knows his stuff. Forget the rest.

Ditto

I agree with bowmania, shoulder collapse.

Bowmania x3. It happens to me on occasion while i'm still strength training.

OP, should you return to this Thread, you may want to check out this interesting video which may solve your problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjW6_60Vvp8

“ People are quick to blame too stiff of spine. That sure can do it, but my arrows are well tuned so spine isn't an issue.”

At least that one is easy to diagnose… If you are missing with bare shafts, you have a tuning issue. If you’re missing with fletched arrows, then you have an aiming issue. If you’ve never shot bare shafts before, you don’t know; if you’re not interested in shooting bare shafts, then you may never figure yourself out…

I’m starting to think that bare shaft target work is to archers what the driving range is to a professional golfer...

I was fooled by fleched arrows for many years. I beat myself up. I was hell bent on improving myself. I kept saying if I consistently push a little harder the arrow goes where I want. The bareshft doesn't lie. Your bad form goes from 8 inch plus misses to 3 inch.

Here is the rub. The bareshaft will tell you if you need a different shaft as you go through the process. If you don't shoot consistently enough you can't tune a bareshaft and you should seek help.

Fletched feathers are in my opinion to blame for bad shooting habits being learned by shooting improperly tuned arrows.

Everyone should be able to shoot a 3d range using nothing but bareshafts.

As Matt added, being sure your arrows are well tuned ( once your form can produce true results) is key. I seldom practice without a bareshaft in the mix which quickly alerts me to changes in my equipment, form, or release. As Ken Beck said, that bareshaft is your coach.

Tuning is the end product of manipulating the dynamic reaction of an arrow shaft to shoot to a vertical line. How that is achieved can be through bare shaft tuning, or not. It makes -0- differences how you get there.

Bareshaft tuning is a viable method to determine correct spine, but it isn't the only method, or the best method for everyone. Spine is not nearly as precise a measurement as it is made out to be on here.

You as an individual have to decide the most appropriate method for you and your ability and concentrate on that.

If fletching has as much of a negative affect on spine as it is rumored to have when you bareshaft tune and add 12 or more inches of feather the whole process would go in the crapper.

Bareshaft tuning reveals and covets up far more flaws in form than it does in spine.

"Bareshaft tuning reveals and covers up far more flaws in form than it does in spine."

Another way of saying, "you can only tune as good as you can shoot".

Frank, if you bring up any method of tuning I can give you a very good reason why bare shaft planing works better.

Shooting the line - it doesn't tell you anything about nocking points.

The difference between other methods is like cutting two pieces of wood to length. On one piece of wood you used a paint brush to mark the length and the other you used a fine felt tipped marker.

Bowmania

Todd, nocking point position is the last thing I adjust. And bareshaft planing in and of itself doesn't tell you anything about string nock location either. It tells you about left right dynamic reaction. And the purpose of bareshaft tuning IS to shoot the line.

Sometimes we gotta' quit acting like this whole tuning for good arrow flight thing is a new process.

I totally agree fdp. Everyone should do what they think is best and resign themselves to their result. It doesn't get any better.

Either way, though… You learn something new and you’re bound to walk away from it a better shot. What’s not to like?

As far as being able to shoot an entire 3-D course with bare shafts… That seems a tall order when any reputable course should have targets out to 35 yards or so, and most people have trouble hitting the target at all with much consistency once they get past about half that. Or so you might believe from all of the snide remarks around here about the ability of the “average“ Trad-shooter...

Personally, I figure a person ought to be able to group bare shafts with fletched out about as far as they can actually GROUP.

Frank, the problem that you mentioned (and I don't agree) is arrows with different spine within what you tuned. If you try to shoot the line with arrows that you claim are off in spine, it won't work.

Whereas bare shaft planing is changing according to the group. Not the line.

I tune nocking point first, because it's so easy with impacts. You do it second and it can throw off your spine results. Jake Kaminski and Richard Cockrell suggest nock first.

Bowmania

With all due respect to the gentlemen from Wisconsin :) would you not want your point of impact to be close to or on the vertical line? If they don't (in the context of this discussion) would that not mean that there is a spine issue ?

My experience has been that if I start with the nock of the arrow 1/8" above 90 degrees I rarely ever have to move it. And I don't believe I ever had to move one far enough to affect overall tune.

But, the end product of getting arrows to group as well as we can shoot is essentially the objective, the process used to get there is secondary.

LOL...

I’m dealing with the same issue at work right now!

Good Boss says “get it done, and get it done right; how you do it is up to you“.

Bad Boss says “do it my way whether it makes sense or not and whether it works or not”.

And then they’ll rip you for it when the results stink.

So you do set the NP first. I agree, because if you don't, you impart more force to the arrow after it's set correctly, which makes all your work before null and void.

The end product is getting the arrow to group as well as possible, but I would hardly can the easiest process secondary.

Your arguement is very circular. Yes, (and I don't want to speak for very one in WI, because of the beer and cheese) you do want to have your arrow hit the verticle line, but you say you can't if the spine is off. AND I say if the spine is off, that's the reason we use groups.

You know I shoot ACC's. I don't shoot groups (or the line) and when I tune I spin the shafts and spine test them. They're all spine tested when I fletch them.

Bowmania

Well yes my argument is circular because the subject is circular. Achieving the objective is all that matters.

Putting the nock locator on the string is just an intuitive thing prior to shooting. And it really shouldn't require any thought beyond that.

LE Stemmler matched arrows by shooting them from a shooting machine at 100 yards. Arrows that grouped in the same spot stayed in a group together. That is tuning/sorting by impact, but the impacts aren't in the same place.

I'm not really debating the end result. But the simple fact is that many people aren't consistent enough or accurate enough for it to make any difference whether they tune with bare shafts or fletched. That being the case in many instances bare shaft tuning isn't the easiest method to achieve the desired result.

OP still haven't returned to this Thread. Hope he wasn't one of the many affected by the flood. Be safe Tradmike.

While exploring the dominant eye thing I shot consistently excellent (vertical) strings by closing my left eye before release. Releasing with both eyes open my elevation was better for obvious reasons but windage was worse.

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