If you have received your June/July issue of TBM magazine there is an article written by Marv Clyncke that tells about a friend of his that shot a moose in Colorado using a 40 pound Damon Howatt recurve and a Thunderhead 125. I really enjoyed that article and it should put a damper on all the doubters that have been saying 40 pounds is not enough for deer! And on top of that he used my favorite broadhead the Thunderhead 125. Which in my opinion is a superb broadhead no matter what type of bow you are shooting. Now I have opened a beer and made some popcorn. Those of you who disagree can start blasting me! :)

My good friend in central Texas don't have internet on his ranch so he doesn't know that his 35lb Wing is too weak for all of the deer, hogs and turkey he has killed over the last 50 years :)

You can bring in two dozen moose, all with complete penetration from a 40# bow, and there will be the stately contingency telling you it's still impossible. I think that horse should have dropped over long ago, he's sure been ridden enough.

All depends on who's doing the shooting.

Rick

The fact that this question repeatedly comes up still tells me that it’s probably not the best idea...not impossible...but probably not the best idea.

You may get lucky on a deer, but Moose are immune to arrows sent from a 40# bow.

I’m sure you can and there are a lot of people that will tell you it can be done, but you would be better served using a bow that is in the 50 plus pound range.

Yeah n I know a guy who killed his buck one year from over 80 yards. So no more of this 20 yards n under stuff, right? Cause he proved 8p yards is ethical?

It is all about shot placement.

Wife (God Bless Her) killed a deer with a 32# long bow, 1716 arrow with a Black Diamond hunting head.

I have taken deer with my 40# Northern Mist longbow using stone hunting heads.

Shot placement.

there was a Grizzly Bear shot and killed with a 22, so with your analogy would you hunbt Grizzly Bears with a 22,

All the outside the box analogies are not relevant. It should be self evident by now that arrow weight, good flight and a sharp COC broadhead means a lot more than the actual bow poundage. I had to drop to mid 40s bows and still get two holes. I have yet to shoot a moose or elk with my mid 40s bows but I have not a moment of hessitation that they are up to the task. Hell, I am confident I'm more lethal on animals now shooting mid 40s than I was shooting my #75 Asbell Bighorn with all the shooting issues that came with ME shooting #75. So, what if the guy that killed the moose was drawing 30 inches and launching his 550 grain arrow at the same speed as the self bow guy was sending his arrow down range with a bow #15 heavier bow at his 27 inch draw? The self bow guy would never have his "ethics" questioned because he was pulling #55. I really like what Caughtandhobble said above. Makes sense.

This horse has been ridden, died, beaten while dead, resurrected, ridden to death again, and then beaten to death while dead again! It doesn’t matter, there will always be the naysayers.

Traditional bow hunter magazine there’s a story of a guy killing a moose 40 poundsJune July recent issue

If it was the norm it never woulda made the magazine.

I bet if the owners of TBM thought killing a moose with a #40 bow was unethical in nature, it wouldn't have made the magazine either. They always seemed like very standup guys to me who have a solid eye on ethics. It must not have struck them as an "unethical" stunt.

I still don't know why all the fuss regarding folks shooting lighter poundage. If you choose to shoot heavier, great for you! I'm just glad you enjoy your bow and shooting it. I can't imagine looking upon someone who shoots lighter equipment with any level of contempt what so ever. I'm just glad they are enjoyiong their bows also. There is simply no "ethical" issue with shooting a moose with a #40 bow. I think our ranks can be very hard on our own at times.

Their is little doubt that at 20 yds.or less with a well placed 400 gr arrow with the right 40 lb bow (not all created equal) has the potential to expire a Moose, or an Elk. If it is a once in a life time hunt that I paid dearly for I would want a bow that could do the same at twice the distance. That would be a 60 or 65lb. bow with a 600, or 650 gr. arrow if the shot presented itself.Now I have opened up another can of worms, because their are many on here that will say that guys with that heavy of a bow could not hit the vitals at that range. I am one of them, so I just stay home.

We used to have guys on here asking for help almost every year from deer hits that didn't pen enough. that stopped when guys gave em heck for talking about wounded animals on the internet. Yes 40 works, most of the time. I like all the time myself. And on moose depends on the efficiency of the bow and size of the moose and whether or not he moves or gathers at the time the arrow hits him, not to mention the right arrow weight . Not to heavy or too light. but I've seen what 53lbs does to elk and moose. 53 is barely enough for moose sometimes So yes 40 might work well, but it also might not.

Yes

X2 RICK BARBEE

I guess it would depend on how high you dropped it from. And if it was 40 pounds of rock or 40 pounds of foam rubber

“ If it was the norm it never woulda made the magazine.”

Yup; Man Bites Dog!

But not-for-nothin’ there, BooBoo... the Thunderhead is NOT COC; it’s just a really good head, and if someone told me I could never use anything else, I’d be pretty OK with that.

Yep GF....shot a few deer with thunderheads myself back in the day.

Newest Traditional Bowhunter Mag has article were a gentleman killed a bull moose with a 40 lb. bow.

Len Cardinale killed his Grizzly with a 45lb. bow, and they are more impervious to arrows than moose are.

Folks have been doing it for years. Bows and arrows are less effective now than they used to be though and game animals are a lot tougher.

I blame the steroids.

Yep I used 160 t heads a couple years and one of my sons still uses 125's. The first year the 125s came out people ask about em so much I took a chance and ordered 200 boxes. Sold them all that summer and fall at the shop.

As long as #40 is legal who cares. If you go to Alaska it's #50 pound minimum.Every state is different.

Is forty pounds enough to ...........................

I beat that with 39 pounds, but I sure wouldn't chance it with a non-coc broadhead. The story will be in TBM in about 3 issues.

Bowmania

Hmmm. He was very lucky to find that moose. Shot it in the morning and didn't find it (still alive) until late in the afternoon, after just walking a trail that Marv suggested he walk. Wouldn't have known to do that without Marv's knowledge of the landscape and likely would have lost the moose, or at least not found it until the meat was unsalvageable. Yeah, he killed it with a 40# bow, but I don't consider it a strong case for using that weight bow on a moose. Too, the only reason he used it rather than his own heavier bow was because he was dealing with a severe bout of arthritis..

No... obviously most on here have not seen a dead moose up close and have never taken one apart . They have large thick ribs, thick hide, and hair and you are not going to shoot through them (ribs) with a 40 # bow every time . Why try when there's a good chance for wounding even on a good hit . 50 to 55 # minimum I would use a 55#.

Thank you Orion

In Tina Portmans article Connie stated that she shot between 48 and 50lbs.

You answered your own question.,Marv said his friend did it. :)

I'd rather a guy shoot an arrow from a 35 lb bow at full draw than a guy short drawing 4-5 inches with a 50 lb bow. Having said that it's possible and likely that the 35 lb bow was short drawn too. So it may not have been 35 lbs

Colorado allows hunting all big game with 35# bow.

I have a buddy with shoulder issues that killed one with a low 40# bow and likely not full drawn. Oddly, Marv was part of our pack out group on that one. Not the same moose from the article.

maybe it was a little moose,, or maybe he drew the bow to 30 inches,,,, maybe the bow was marked 40 but was really 45 and he drew it to 30 making it a 50# bow,, well maybe it was just 40 and killed the moose,,hmmmm

Probably can, but I'd have to be pretty hungry before I would try it.

Good replies, This was all in fun I have always enjoyed these type of threads. Rick Barbee I have much respect for you. You are a very good shot with a heavy bow. And as you know it doesn't matter if a person is shooting a heavy bow, or a light weight bow. To be successful on animals It always depends on who is doing the shooting. Orion, The man that shot the moose said in the article that the moose moved forward about the time he released the arrow which caused the bad hit from the first arrow. The hit was a little high and to far back. That could happen to anyone shooting a lot more draw weight. A bad hit is a bad hit. And it is good that Marv knows the area well, And I commend the hunter to keep looking when it looked hopeless to find the moose. I am sure that has happened to most all of us. GF you are right. The Thunderhead is a very good head. And if I was told that is all I could use, I would be very ok with that!

If I can only shoot 40# someday and I have a moose tag, I won't hesitate a bit to add to the data set.

Could practice here, but not recommended!

No, 40# won't kill a moose...Has to be ATLEAST 41# or it's not even worth the risk..

A man has just got to know his limitation... Dirty Harry.

Yeah but you got to tell him to hold real still first.

I've never shot a moose but I would guess that anything could be killed if shot with enough arrows.

40 pound is enough for most everything. That's why I use 57#.

In the same line of thinking as....

a) .22 short will kill a deer (with a good head shot at close range)

b) somewhere there is a man that had sex with Rosie O'Donnell

There are much better options...

Not so much about moose, but the Eastern Woodland Indians made bows that were on the average of 35lbs. They existed for thousands of years and were prosperous, and that with flint head arrows.

The fact that something is physically possible doesn't make it exactly advisable for killing game animals.

I'm very sure a 40# bow will poke an arrow far enough into a moose to eventually bring him down. Both you and the moose might have to endure some suffering.

I'd say a 20 or 25 pound bow could get just enough penetration to kill a whitetail. Same deal.

You can possibly catch a hard-fighting 20 pound fish on 6# test line.

All 3 things will put you at the margins of suitability, but with enough skill and some luck you can do it. There's little room for error however. If you mess it up, the fish gets the better of it.

It can most defiantly be done. The right broadhead (3:1 single bevel) and a well tuned heavy arrow will get her done. Obviously shot placement is key, however a good arrow set up with right broadhead will account for a “not so perfect” shot.

~Wojo

KPC-

Triceratops are thin skinned and the ribs are both narrow and well spaced, so not reall a good example. I could probably throw a spoon through one.

Now, an ankylosaurus or stegosaurus- that’s difficult with light weight gear.

Just because something “can” does not mean that you “should.”

Can't figure why anyone would go moose hunting with a 40lb bow. There's lots of used good'uns out there for sale or up for auction which will match better for hunting something which has its rear hole higher than your car.

Remember coming up on a male moose next the road crossing some mountinas one summer night in New Hampshire. After seeing that monster in the dark and thinking what he could have done to my wife's Accord, I wouldn't use anything less than a cannon.

These relevant question is not "can it be done". It is "can it be done reliably?" The answer to the former is "sure"...the answer to the second is "hardly". I'll be the first to admit there is a trade-off between the better penetration that comes on a marginal hit from higher poundage and the ability to accurately deliver that arrow with poundage you struggle with. Only the individual hunter can make that call. The old adage about shooting the most poundage that you can handle accurately still holds. But when the adrenaline starts flowing the 50 lbs I shoot can fell like 65#. You have to live with the consequences. I don't care if it's a moose or much smaller game, nobody knows when you release that string the arrow is going to slip between the ribs on both sides, clear the scapula, etc. I don't give me a bunch of BS about practice. I know it's vital and so is woodsmanship, shot timing and selection. Bbut the best archers can't guarantee that animal won't react and move before the arrow arrives, resulting in a marginal hit. You can do everything exactly right and things "go south" in a heartbeat. I'd opt for every advantage I can get.

Ollie x2

What kind of guy tries to drive a big meal with a little hammer?

"Nail" rather

I never said I recommend a person use 40 pounds to hunt a moose. But if I had a permit to hunt a moose and had been putting in for 21 years and finally drew the tag. And I was unable to shoot anything but a 40 pound bow. That is what I would hunt with. If you read the story that is what happened to the man that killed the moose with a 40 pound bow. He was 77 years old at the time of the hunt and had been putting in for a moose tag for 21 years. And had a bad case of arthritis in his shoulders Is a successful, experienced bowhunter, and usually shoots a 50 pound bow. But do to the arthritis 40 pounds was the most he could pull. It is a good article. And I am happy for the man that he killed his moose.

“ Can't figure why anyone would go moose hunting with a 40lb bow. ”

The ONLY reason that makes any sense to me is that time & life take their toll on all of us, eventually. For every Larry Hatfield shooting #50 well into his 80s, there has to be at least one Regular Joe who is too Broke Down at 50 to draw weight equal to his own age.

If a youngster hasn’t grown to a size where #50 makes sense, then give him a few years. If a grown man with no physical issues can’t draw #50, maybe he should get himself into some kind of shape before taking on a Moose hunt. Ladies... There are enough women who have drawn more than most men ever do that it really makes me wonder... But the funny thing about most women is that they aren’t like Men; they’re more sensible and seem to have a lot less to prove, do it seems most of ‘em have a lot better judgement...

But if you DO have to go to a controversially light draw weight...

Go back and check the KE figures on Bowmania’s #39 Super Curve. There’s Input and there’s Output; we spend all of our time arguing Input when it’s Output that’s all that matters...

The reason or at least my reason to go moose hunting with a 40 (39) pound bow is that when I first applied I was shooting 68 pounds. Every spring it got to be a habit to apply, not really reasoning that through the next 20+ years I was dropping down in weight. One day you look on the internet and say, "holy crap I've got a moose tag and I can only shoot 35 pounds".

Due to the KE figures that GF mentions, I knew I could kill one with 39 LBS, because I killed on with 6 foot/pounds less KE. By the way it went about 60 yards.

Bowmania

Newfoundland & Labrador hunting regulations state that a bow must have a minimum weight of 44 pounds for big game hunting. I'd be surprised if most States and Provinces would not have similar regulations. I for one, have shot many moose with a bow and would not feel comfortable with less than 50 pounds draw weight. That's not to say it can be done, but why take a chance.

Rick

I am 72 and down to 35lbs. Even that is tough unless I take a few seconds break between shots. Although I don't hunt as much as I used to, I've no doubt I can get pass thru on a deer. In my whole life I've never killed a deer father than 15 yards and I know 35 is plenty inside that distance. Most of my kills have been less than 10 yards.

44#@28”, short drawn to 25”, I’m guessing got a good 35# of draw weight. 29”, 2016 aluminum arrow with 125 Eclipse 2-blade on aluminum adapter. Whole arrow weighed about 500 grains. 12 yd broadside, behind me shot, hence the short draw. Complete penetration sticking way out the far side. Chopped entry rib in half and damaged rib on exit a little. Ran about 60-70 yds and very dead on arrival. Armchair experts on the internet... sheesh!

When I worked at a tire store as a young man I had a man come in with a flat tire on his truck.

If I had not seen it myself when I opened the tire I would not have believed it.

A tablespoon had punctured through the center of the tire, directly through the steel belts on a ten ply tire, with the spoon part inside the tire.

Anything is possible, just not likely or common or recommended. Good Day

Not legal here in Ontario. You need 50 lbs. minimum for moose or bear.

I've hunted moose all of my life, mostly with rifle and then compound. I've put down 8 moose and the groups I've hunted with have harvested 31 moose total. So, I've seen a few.

Now, for the last many years, I have hunted strictly with recurves and longbows. Forty pounds is possible but you'd have to be mighty close. Your broadhead had better be strong and very sharp. Moose ribs are incredibly thick, their hide is tough and also very thick. That said, nothing is impossible.

Getting close to moose is not as easy as what the magazines and youtubes suggest. Their senses are very good.

Hope you're enjoying your beer with this, Arrowflinger. Beats being cooped up, watching tv re-runs.

I say well done and more power to the guy who killed that moose dead as a door nail in the TBM story. At 76 years old, and having shoulder issues myself, I can understand his story. No criticism here.

I didn't mean to critisize but I've also killed moose bulls and know how tuff they can be so my posts are more about letting healthy hunters know it's not a good idea. My lowest weight kill was 53lbs but I wasn't happy with the results so I went up in weight right after that for all shooting. Personally I tell guys that if it's possible 50 should be bare minimum.

I would think that a person who has hunted his entire life, Slowly dropping draw weight as the years progressed, Would fully understand the limitations involved. So, marginal shots aren't really in the formula are they?

I love my traditional bows but I have a couple of Hoyt compounds I use in emergencies set at 50 pounds. I'm shooting between 40 and 44 pound bows but would use the compound for a large animal.

Lets see some more moose taken with tratitional bow pictures.

Huge old bull taken with a longbow...about 62#.

Someone jumps off a high dive into a glass of water and walks away. That doesn't mean it's recommended or routinely advised.

Minimum weight for Moose, here in Alaska is 50#, I think that's about right. Has it been done with less, yes, will it be done again, sure. Is it wise is my question.

Minimum weight for Moose, here in Alaska is 50#, I think that's about right. Has it been done with less, yes, will it be done again, sure. Is it wise is my question.

Kevin, Nice bull.

Bull above taken by my hunting partner.

That's a dandy bull there Kevin.

Mr. Dill seems to have that whole Moose thing pretty much down...

That is a huge moose there MR DILL nice job!!!!

Again, my partner killed that bull. I actually stalked in to 13 yards on him a couple days earlier but blew the opportunity. I was very happy that Bryan got him. Unfortunately a grizzly destroyed our entire cache of moose meat and we got to eat exactly nothing from this bull. So disappointing.

Now, THAT is a tragedy....

Man!

The grizzly wins.

FWIW, minimum archery draw weight for moose in my home state of Maine is 45#.

Ontario Regulations is 50lbs for moose....

Has anyone ever actually ask a Moose if they'd prefer a lung/heart shot with a 40 or 60 # bow?

One above post said grizzly is tougher than a moose to kill. I disagree moose ribs are way thicker than bear ribs. Neither are fun to trail if wounded one will chew on you and the other stomp you out. I dont think 40 is a really bad choice and will get it done nearly as often as 50-55 but 50-55 would be my choice. Good coc 2 blade with bleeders or without will go a long ways in helping penetration no matter the lbs.

45 lbs at what draw length. They leave that out a lot. 45 lbs written on the bow is one thing but drawing it to 45 lbs is another.

It amazes me the people that reply to threads and honestly haven't read it. They just like to spout off with there replies like they know what they are talking about. I am done with this one......

Okie dokie

This bull was killed with a 63# at 28" longbow and it was a full-draw shot from 6 steps. Penetration was complete with the arrow crashing through ribs on both sides and traveling into the brush behind him. And even with both lungs holed he covered about 300 yards on the run. I watched him go with steam blowing out both sides of his chest the entire way....then he spun in a circle and went down.

Nice bull.

Don't know but I may as well add my 2 cents worth Don,t have moose here in my country but word has it a lady in the north of Australia killed an Asian water buffalo with a #40 bow .probably a bit tougher than moose .Your American gun writer said a hit with a .22 is better than a miss from a .44 Elmer Keith I think it was.Good shot placement would do it.As said above it depends on whose shooting .Osr144

I have killed several hogs with a 44 lb recurve...so probably would.... think it can be done with close up well placed shot.

Beautiful bull Kevin.

OSR - that sounds more like Jack O’Connor… Elmer seemed to think that anything under .44 would bounce right off of anything bigger than a prairie dog ;)

Thanks. One thing I believe we should keep in mind:

When a state sets a minimum draw weight for hunting, we all know those weights are for the majority-type of bow in use.... and of course it's a compound bow. I'm definitely not saying the regs don't apply to stickbows, because they certainly do apply. I'm saying they write these regs primarily for wheelbows which absolutely do generate more energy and arrow velocity in equivalent weight arrows. My xyz-pound longbow doesn't deliver as much energy as an xyz-pound modern compound.

Kevin Dill,

Well I can tell you the laws here in Ohio were written BEFORE compounds existed. Granted we aren't talking Moose in this state but not all laws were written after compounds. DANNY

when I was in operations, over 50 years ago, we had a choice of being issued 45 caliber 1911's, or the new 9mm, since that ammo was more common where we would be operating, and the enemy carries it..................... We opted for the 45,,, enough said

Colors used to have a 40lb limit on most game and 50 for elk and moose. Pa has always had 35lbs, but they added 50 f and r elk 7 or 8 years ago. So yes some are dropped for compounds because that's 90 percent of bowhunters weapon and because it shoots 340fps at the weight most stickbow guys shoot 170.

That was my spell checks version of colorado. A friend just told me pa dropped their elk hunting min down to 45 because of compounds being so efficient.

Well DANNY I can assure you the only moose in Ohio are dead ones. The minimum legal poundage for deer is 40 pounds and if we ever grow moose here Ohio won’t likely let us hunt them with a 40 pound recurve....even though it’s technically capable of doing the job.

Yeah Jack O'Conner loved the 270 for all game so I can see him saying that.

A .270 is a hell of an effective rifle if you don’t cripple it with too light a bullet...

Amazing what can be done when you use the right tool for the job...

GF and GLF- Love my .270 with a 150gr, worked like magic on the bull elk I took. I've never hunted moose let alone shot one so I'll defer to those who have with a recurve or longbow....

I use my 270 winchester for coyotes mainly. Heavy enough bullet for the winter breeze and light enough for a flat trajectory. My health gets too bad that my reassurance I can still hunt. And for ohio and their straight walled cartridge law I got my marlin lever 26" Oct barrel in 45/70.

Yes, folks...just put down the mice and slowly back away from the keyboards, lol!

GF I stand to be corrected the memory Ain't as good as it used to be.Probably jack O connor but A well placed shot with a #40 bow sure beats a miss with a #100 bow and the same for fire arms too Osr144

Yes. You can get a used 12 ga. for under 40£.

Nope, 40 lbs isn't enough for a moose. Luckily our regulations in Ontario agree. If you've ever killed or processed a moose you would probably agree. Ribs are thick and the hide is very tough and thick. A well placed shot with a poor penetrating broadhead into a rib is very likely not going to result in an easy recovery if at all. Can it be done, sure but odds of poor or little penetration are very high.

Omg Bowguy is saying what I have been saying for years. No one ever listens to. Me. I watch guys shoot all the time and 90 percent of them do not get to full draw. And I could prove it with a chronograph. I hear about all of these laws about 35 lbs are legal, no wait 40 lbs. At what draw length? What if a hunter short draws? Is he illegal? It's a joke. The guy used a 40 lb bow to kill a moose and I will bet he did not get go full draw unless his draw was longer than the bow was marked.

Omg Bowguy is saying what I have been saying for years. No one ever listens to. Me. I watch guys shoot all the time and 90 percent of them do not get to full draw. And I could prove it with a chronograph. I hear about all of these laws about 35 lbs are legal, no wait 40 lbs. At what draw length? What if a hunter short draws? Is he illegal? It's a joke. The guy used a 40 lb bow to kill a moose and I will bet he did not get go full draw unless his draw was longer than the bow was marked.

"Nope, 40 lbs isn't enough for a moose." Well it was for 77 year old Russ who the article in TBM was about.

“ Well it was for 77 year old Russ who the article in TBM was about.”

Was it?

I haven’t seen the article, but I believe there was mentioned earlier in this thread that “Ol’ Russ” was able to recover his moose under circumstances which (were it not for his partner’s’ intimate knowledge of the area) would require an inestimable amount of Blind Luck in addition to the work and dedication that went into the recovery as it played out.

I guess my point is that “How low can you go” is never a wise approach to the matter at hand, which is the clean, ethical and sportsmanlike dispatch of an animal which will suffer a slow and painful demise if we screw it up. I’m fairly certain that the 77-year-old hunter in the story which triggered this thread was NOT looking at this as a question of how little poundage he could get away with, but how MUCH he can could use to the best of his ability... and you can’t ignore the fact that his best in this casevwas very nearly not good enough.

Did Bowmania slay a mighty beast with #39? Yes. Is he a vastly above average archer? That is certainly my understanding. Did he use a vastly above average set-up in terms of input/output ratios? Indisputably. Does he have above average hunting experience and judgment? Not unlikely. And did he send a second, perfectly tuned and penetration-optimized arrow right where it needed to go ASAP? That’s certainly my understanding.

So the question is really not “is #40 enough”, But “is 40 enough in the hands of an experienced expert when all goes according to plan”....

And JMO, if you are dependent on everything going precisely according to plan, that really cuts into your already-slim odds of filling a tag, because you can only afford to take the absolutely most favorable opportunities, should you happen to get one. And now we are no longer discussing the honestly Solid, High- Percentage opportunities that we all know that we are all responsible for looking for all of the time, but even better than that before we can rightfully consider loosing a shaft.

I guess it’s really fortunate that by the time most of us get to the point where we are substantially limited in the draw weight that we can handle, we should probably be to the point where we can honestly say that just to BE on that hunt is enough. If a making a kill is more important than getting it right under the truly extraordinary limitations imposed by a #40 stickbow, then by the time we’re old enough to be eligible for a Senior Citizen’s discount, maybe we should have the maturity to use a compound or even a crossbow under a medical waiver. M

Not saying that folks who are limited to light draw weight shouldn’t be hunting with their beloved trad gear; only saying that it takes a by-God GROWNUP to approach the task in a responsible way, whether we’re talking about draw weight or tuning or shot distance or using factory-sharpened blades in our broadheads if our sharpening skills aren’t necessarily up to snuff.

As Bowguy said: “Boys everyone doesn’t get to play all games no matter what society has been telling you. We need to respect our game and shoot a combination w some wiggle room.” You can no more expect an animal to die easy for you in light of your physical health than I could talk my way into playing in the NBA with a waiver that gives me my own hoop to shoot at, set at a height where I can dunk like the Big Boys.

Life is not “Fair”; it’s a COMPETITIVE EVENT in which the odds may be stacked in your favor or they may be so incredibly stacked against you that you’re wasting your time just showing up. You think the animals we hunt aren’t competing every moment of every day? They compete with each other for food, for water, for cover, for mates; and they compete in contests of speed, strength, endurance and the never-ending game of hide-and-seek. Their predators don’t cut them any slack for age or infirmity, and we shouldn’t expect them to do so for us. You want to kill one of ‘em on YOUR terms, use a rifle.

Yeah people say it's an overbooked thing but at our shoots no one shoots over 45 lbs top with a few 50's. But half at least release 6 to 9 inches before anchor.

Yes, he killed the moose. First arrow did not finish the job. Why? Poor shot placement? Poor penetration? No info given on where the moose was hit and how much penetration either arrow got. Some of you guys clearly don't believe there is a minimum draw weight at which point you have a responsibility to say "I can't handle a bow with enough energy so I will pass on the hunt." I would love to take a cape buffalo with bow but I know I can't handle the minimum weight required to try. I'm not going to try it and hope for the best just because someone somewhere killed one with a light weight bow.

So you always have one arrow kills? Good for you, not my experience in my 40+ years of hunting.

GF, you really should read the article in TBM. Then you will know that some of your speculations in the previous post are off target.

Ollie, Marv described the shot/hit in the article.

"At 18 yards he put an arrow into the bull. Russ said it lurched ahead just as he shot and he hit a little high behind the paunch area, but had good penetration."

Those circumstances and the resulting arrow hit could happen to anyone and have nothing to do with the archer's age or the weight of his bow. BTW, Russ normally shoots 50# but was only able to draw a 40# borrowed Howatt bow (extra credit coming there!) due to an arthritis flare up. AT 77, this was most likely Russ' last moose hunt unless he wills a raffle. To suggest that he should be happy just to BE there on this hunt and he really shouldn't be trying to kill an animal with the toy bow is a real insult.

There have been a lot of good posts and "moose information" on this thread. And there have been a lot of posts by those that always feel obligated to post something. I tend to listen to those that have the hunting experiences to back up their posts. I have only shot one moose and it wasn't a real big one. I shot through it and probably could have shot through it with the 40# Howatt Bandito that Russ used. Everything about them is big, and tough. We ask quite a bit more of our archery tackle on these bigger animals and you'd be better off shooting heavier weight bows, if you can, just in case things don't go as planned. When you are standing over a carcass with leg bones, shoulder blades, or ribs in your hands, you will understand.

Methinks you may want to work on your reading comprehension there, Lefty…

I have not read the article and I have made absolutely ZERO assumptions about the guy who took this shot. All I have been able to gather so far is that he was VERY DAMN LUCKY to recover his moose under the conditions. Period.

For context: I grew up in Colorado, but these days I live out in Connecticut, where we have a #40 minimum for the wimpy little whitetails that pass for deer around here. (I blame my wife. She had a good job with the paper in Summit County, but moved back here before I had a chance to meet her, so by the time I got to know her, it was either move out here or do without. And that would’ve been Stupid.)

Given what apparently went wrong here, it is fair to ask how much poundage would have been necessary to make a difference. But maybe it’s fair to ask whether (had he been equipped with a standard bow/arrow combination) the Hunter here might’ve held farther forward where the sudden lurching of the animal might’ve turned a paunch hit into maybe a solid shot to the liver, which could be far more decisive.

The point is, you can never know what might’ve happened any more than you can guess what WILL happen, and a little insurance in the form of a heavier rig is never a bad idea unless you can’t handle it.

And FWIW, “good penetration” on a hit AFT OF THE RIBCAGE isn’t saying very damn much.

GF, you never cease to amaze me.

So you are now saying if the hunter were shooting a standard bow/arrow combination he may have aimed further forward and therefore may have made a better hit? Did I read that correctly?

Well, I have not heard that one before, but I am still learning. I don't know anyone that adjusts his/her windage hold based on having or not having a standard bow/arrow combination.

Lefty, good post above. Like I said earlier most of theses guys put in there 2 cents and they haven't even read all the threads, much less the article. GF is not making any sense at all. the man that killed the moose usually hunts with 50 pounds, But due to his age 77 and a bad bout with arthritis he used a borrowed 40 pound bow. And yes he was lucky to find the moose. And it is a good thing Marv knows the area as well as he does. But the hunter kept looking and found the moose. I think every bow hunter that shoots many animals makes a bad hit occasionally. But I think I will take GF's advice and start shooting a bow that is a few pounds heavier and it may help me to hold father forward and avoid any paunch hits. Now that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while!

Like Ed Koch used to say: I can explain it to you; I can’t understand it for you.

If hunting moose with a #40 bow, a thoughtful person might just hold back off of the meaty part of the shoulder so as to avoid slamming into a truly massive bone or having to poke through a very hefty slab of “beef”; shooting 50% more poundage, you might not be quite as concerned about having to punch through all of that.

Also, if shooting 50% higher poundage, one could move a substantially heavier arrow at a decidedly faster clip, which in this case could have noticeably reduced the distance covered by the moose while the arrow was in flight.

So between being able to hold farther forward than would be advisable with a truly lightweight bow and getting the arrow there substantially quicker, there is at least a solid chance that the hunter could have placed his shot less than a YARD aft of where most of us would probably have held in the first place, wouldn’t you think?

As for Kevin’s question.... Yep, that's a helluva bad spot to hit an animal, but there are two kidneys back there, as well as some VERY major plumbing just under the spine, should the penetration allow you to reach it. And no matter what you hit, 2 holes bleed more than one. Add to that the (well documented) tendency of animals to run harder with an arrow sticking out of them than they do if the arrow sails clear of the off side, and a clean pass-through beats the snot out of partial penetration on a host of levels.

No guarantees, but I’d take my chances driving 540 grains out of #62 over an arrow of ANY GPP YOU WANT coming off of #40. Any time an animal moves that much at the shot, you’re pretty well screwed and into damage control/salvage mode. And for that, I’ll take whatever little help I can get.

KPC too light of a bow for the animal being hunted can make it's own non lethal hits.

Having not read the article yet, I'll refrain from posting as if I had knowledge of it. Seems that would be a rather stupid thing for me to do. Don't you think?

Having killed elk and deer with my recurve over the years would use a 4o lb bow for moose , No. Askthe wensel brothers if they would. We all know the bow poundage they use for whitetails. using 40lbs is irresponsible. If all you can use is 40lb for moose time to put the bow down and use a rifle if you want ti stil hunt.

KPC Actually a shot in that area at ground level with enough power to pass through the animal or at least the midline by several inches will kill rather quickly as it will cross through the major artery and veins of the retroperitoneum space. In real life such an arrow kills very quickly and the blood trails is graphic. To increase the odd a large cutting width broadhead is a real a davantage. A 40 # bow is best suited for a dead cow than a living moose sized game.

It happened, but I don't believe we ought to think 40 will always do it.

I killed 900lb elk in CO with a 338 Magnum and did not get pass thru.

It might be useful before this whole thread goes further off in the bushes with all these comparisons of arrows and bullets to point out that they typically kill entirely differently. Arrows, (excepting spine/brain shots which are lucky accidents) kill by hemorrhaging and quite efficiently when passing through the heart/lung area. An exit wound is usually beneficial for a more profuse blood trail....the animal will typically have to be followed a short distance. Modern expanding bullets kill by shock...an exit wound is of no help, as that energy is designed to be expended internally. The deadliest bullet is the one you find completely expanded just under the skin on the opposite side from entry. Apples...oranges.

Given we're hunting with recurve or longbow: What is the lower end of recommended bow poundage for dependable pass-through penetration on something like a 175 pound deer?

Whatever that poundage, how much do you add to it for a 1000 - 1400 pound bull moose?

There's a big difference between good penetration and pass- through penetration. I've butchered a good many AK-YK bulls and have seen what various hits produce for penetration. If you're planning to get a pass-through (which I always am) on a big moose, you'll be hard-pressed to do it dependably with any stickbow less than 50 pounds...and your shot had better be on the letters.

I've lost count of how many moose I've had at 15 yards or less. I've had a number of AK-YK bulls at much shorter distances, and I've been within 4' (feet) of a mature bull and accompanying cow. Obviously they are huge brutes with thick bodies and stout ribs.

Personally, I think any animal deserves to be hunted with a bow/arrow likely to produce pass-through penetration on a broadside chest hit. Just 'getting an arrow in him' isn't enough for me. Using a bow of minimal or borderline poundage on huge animals might get the deed accomplished, but advocating for it as 'enough' or 'adequate' in the routine sense is misleading.

Kevin Dill, thank you for sharing your experience and opinions. It's great to hear from someone who has actually hunted and killed multiple moose.

This bull was killed with a broadside shot at 18 yards. The bow was a 63# at 28" longbow. I was standing upright and know I got at least 28" of draw. Shaft was an Easton Axis with 275 grains of head and adapter up front. I did NOT get a pass through. I hit the chest a bit forward (toward the V formed by the upper leg bone and scapula in the graphic above) having to penetrate some shoulder/leg muscle before getting into the chest. The broadhead transected the chest completely and impacted the off-side lower shoulder. The bull ran after hit...50 yards....stopped to look over his shoulder and abruptly collapsed. It took less than 15 seconds for him to drop. I figure the head severed either the ascending aorta or a major pulmonary vessel. It was over so fast he didn't even have a drop of blood in his nose.

Quite a few years back my rancher friend called and said he had a few mature Red Angus cows that he needed to put down for some reason. He knew I wanted to test out my archery gear. We estimated they were in the 1500-1600 # range, which puts them right up there with a good size Alaska/Yukon bull moose and certainly bigger than almost all Canadian or Shiras moose. I took all my bows of various weights, many arrow and broadhead combinations and fired away from about 15 yds. We propped the recently deceased on their backs with legs to the sky to get a good broadside profile. I’m no longer ignorant or a doubter about what a 40-45# traditional bow can do. Since then I’ve got complete penetration or pass throughs on 3 moose and 2 elk with less than 45# r/d longbow on broadside shots. Never mind the truckload of deer that have had pass throughs with this same bow. I’m not telling anyone else to go out and hunt with gear your not confident in, I’m just saying in response to the OP “Will 40# kill a moose?” The answers is an unequivocal YES!

Kevin Dill, and Tucker. Great photos thanks for your response!

Marv should have known better than to offer his friend a light bow for a moose

Yes! Might be easier if you use an arrow. >>>>-----> Ken

Kpc in that area you can hit some of the mesenteric major vessels, kidney and their vessels... etc...

“ Kpc in that area you can hit some of the mesenteric major vessels, kidney and their vessels... etc...”

You can also get stinking rich playing Powerball… Just sayin’...

I am not a believer in the concept that so many users of expandable heads seem to buy into, which is that hitting twice as much of the wrong stuff is necessarily any better than hitting all the wrong stuff... but at least if you get a complete pass- through you won’t have missed any of it for lack of penetration.

@Tucker - Rick Barbee killed a very expensive beef bull with a rubber blunt. But I don’t think he’s ever recommended it to anyone.

Beyond that… There is a tremendous distinction between “recently deceased“ and “soon to be deceased“. The former are a hell of a lot easier to track.

And FWIW, anything short of an exit wound is NOT “Good Penetration”

IMHO

After all the replies, seems like a forty pounder will do it every day and twice on Sunday, but I wouldn't be out there shooting something taller than a 2,000 ox and as mean as a cape buffalo with that draw weight with my old recurves. Go back and review Kevin Dill's photo.

This thread needs some gasoline, I'm going to suggest some Ashby premium with 40#er additive. Don't matter what number is written on the bow, matters what the arrow tips the scale at and where that weight is mostly at.

Scroll down to see the 40#er keeping up with bows that have bigger numbers written on them.

But... a non lethal hit is by definition a...non lethal hit.

https://www.grizzlystik.com/PR/Ashby_2008_Part2.pdf

I've already read it, basically it says if you shot a moose with a 70 or 80 pound longbow and it got away it was because it was a bad shot.

If you shot it with a 40 pound longbow and it got away it was because it was a bad shot.

Qualifying that by saying a bad hit, things happen that turn good shots into bad hits sometime.

IMO- the key to putting moose down quickly is to puncture BOTH lungs. It doesn’t matter what poundage the bow is that launches the arrow carrying the sharp broadhead, just so long as it gets both lungs. Moose shot in only one lung can go a very long distance, take much longer to expire, and are sometimes difficult to locate. So, if a 40# bow can puncture both lungs it is no better or worse than a bow of much greater draw weight. If that 40# bow gives complete penetration or a pass through then there is certainly no difference in effective killing than if the moose was shot with a 100# bow. Dead is still dead.

IMO- the key to putting moose down quickly is to puncture BOTH lungs. It doesn’t matter what poundage the bow is that launches the arrow carrying the sharp broadhead, just so long as it gets both lungs. Moose shot in only one lung can go a very long distance, take much longer to expire, and are sometimes difficult to locate. So, if a 40# bow can puncture both lungs it is no better or worse than a bow of much greater draw weight. If that 40# bow gives complete penetration or a pass through then there is certainly no difference in effective killing than if the moose was shot with a 100# bow. Dead is still dead.

Ok guys Imma tell you a story about bow weight and people that think they know what it takes.,on one of my first trips to Africa in we were told about kinetic energy and what bow poundage we needed to hunt there. I thought yea yea yea as I had killed moose and elk and bears with my bows. I had a homemade 48 lb bow and an extra set of limbs of the same weight. So I am thinking how will theses people know what weight I am shooting? Well Lo and behold when we get there the first day they want to weigh our bows.,I panicked because I did not qualify. So I had an idea.,I waited until one of the guys in front of me had their 70'lb bow weighed. I then asked to borrow his bow to have it weighed when it was my turn.,I stepped right up and had the bow weighed thinking they would not remember this bow. It worked. My bow was weighed and now I am legal. Lol. I killed 7 animals with my 48 lb bow. Including an eland and kudu. And the guy that let me borrow his bow wounded a couple animals that were hit poorly with his 70 pounder . So take what you want from that., I still think it's about getting close and making a good shot and bow poundage simply can't do that for a hunter.,

It would be nice if you could see the ribs and aim bvb between them. But you can't and yes the points hitting both lungs. Not every 40 or 45lb bow will do that if you center a rib. Like I said my lowest weight was with 53lbs and yes I killed him but there wasn't much room to spare so I went heavier after that. When you're giving advice to someone you tell him the minimum that you believe will work every time and as you've seen most experienced moose hunters agree with 50 being bare minimum. JR your 48 is real close to that, but beats the heck outa 40 or 45. You hope for the best penetration but prepare for the worst.

Btw my 53lb indian wasn't one of the most efficient recurves, and probably the equivalent of 47-49lb modern bow. That's why I tell people 50.

For a minute I thought we were about to have another dead cow thread, lol.

Gary beat me to it. Records are made to be broken (longest running thread in LW history), but some cows are just best left dead. And they weren't shot with 40 lbs....sorry, that just slipped out!

Accuracy trumps all, but no matter where the arrow hits the animal there is no downside to greater velocity or energy. Okay...there is a downside to greater bow poundage which is a potential degradation in accuracy for those who can't manage it.

I avoid passing judgment on people for their informed choices. A 40 pound bow drawn to 40 pounds (and launching a good shaft / broadhead combo) will kill a moose without doubt. In my mind, the onus is on the hunter to only take close shots of under 20 yards and perfectly broadside positioning.

I will likely never think of 40 pounds as an optimum poundage for a moose bow, especially for the AK-YK sub-species. Rock- bottom minimum is how I would describe it.

And Kevin just explained it all. You must get close and make a good shot and more is definately better if a hunter can handle it.

IOW, more is better right up until it’s Not.

;)

To Tucker’s point....

If you get penetration into about the middle of the off lung, it should collapse; it does help to open a big enough hole to allow a good amount of air to flow in through the wound channel, and two holes do that better than one. No critter gets far with 2 collapsed lungs. No mammal, anyway...

Seems to me that (as always) this is one of those things that come down to risk management.

All else being equal, higher kinetic output is better than lower.

All else being equal, a well-tuned arrow is better than one that flies cocked off to one side.

All else being equal, a heavier arrow will out-penetrate a lighter one (assuming that part of the “all else“ package includes the arrow velocity).

And of course the list goes on and on and on....

Trouble is, there’s no free lunch. And “All Else“ is NEVER equal...

It’s a whole lot easier to get the right shot for a #40 bow when you live where the moose are and you have three or four weeks or maybe even a couple of months to hunt, so if you don’t get YOUR shot today, then no big deal. There will be other opportunities, whether this year or next. That doesn’t happen when there’s a 20 year wait due to incredibly long odds in the draw. That doesn’t happen when it’s a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Alaska or someplace similar. That doesn’t happen when you hunt in a state where it’s a once-in-a-lifetime tag. That doesn’t happen when the moose that offers you your shot opportunity happens to be a real monster, Or when it somebody offers you one of those fast-developing, not a lot of time to think about it type shots.

I don’t think anybody here has said that killing a moose with a lighter bow cannot be done; I think a lot of folks are just willing to point out that it’s not so easy as someone like Tucker might be able to make it look. One thing I’ve noticed is that people who tend to do things Right are the kind of people who can make it look awfully easy. And for them, maybe it really is?

It took me a long time to tumble to the fact that just because something comes easily to me does not mean that just anybody can do it. And of course, there’s always the fact that the very things that come “easily” are usually those things that we’ve been doing for so long that we’ve forgotten that we ever had to learn how in the first place.

And to be honest, I think that is one reason why the “Real Experts“ are often times the last people that a beginner should consider asking for advice. If the Expert in question is not also a teacher who has worked with a lot of beginners, there’s an incredibly good chance that their advice will be based upon a very long list of assumptions which simply do not apply to the average Joe.

So for a Beginner with very little (if any) experience to take the advice of an expert over that of someone with good general skills and only a small amount of specialized expertise on the matter... suffice to say that I think there are a lot of hidden pitfalls in that approach.

I doubt a TBM article ever generated this much comment. Of course it is about "How much weight does it take to kill_____." Those always stir the pot. LOL

53#. My new bow will be that, or higher,based on this thread, and others. GF is right; a long season in game rich area isn't two or three weekends in a desert. I had a deer turn into me as I released. Fast action! Arrow went in neck, lodged up against spine, Zwickey 2b. Bow was 53#, and I bet I did not pull even 48 from my hunched,sitting position, at 11 or so yards. My usual 42#, probably worst outcome. Others say "things go wrong, so more helps." Agreed, especially for larger game. An older hunter picking perfect shots, sure, but for me, no.

A 40# can kill a moose, but it would not be my choice. About 20 years ago, I had what I thought was a good chest hit on a big bull I called in to about 25 yards. Using my 50# longbow, the arrow centered a rib with a loud crack, and only a few inches of penetration. Retrieved my 25” busted arrow{originally 28”) about a hundred yards later. Followed his tracks for about a mile but he was gone, no blood, and likely no worse for the wear but for a cracked rib and my broad head to decorate it. An inch either side of the rib, or a heavier bow and it may have been a dead moose. Perhaps it wasn’t the best shot placement, but I’ll take the extra margin of a heavier bow/arrow for moose.

Ask a Moose hunting guide... Curious to see what they say.

Greyfox I saw that happen on an Ontario moose years ago. My hunting partner shot one with a 40lb at his draw bw and center a rib he figured. When we found the broken off arrow there was about 4 inches of arrow missing. And no blood on the piece we found. It counted as a kill to the guide even tho he didn't find it so we went home empty handed . That was back during Ontarios stupid 1 moose to every two licensed hunters law.

Lets see some more pictures of moose killed with traditional bows.

I agree with Nemophilist.

Yea x3 for more pics

Or just kill this thread. Conclusion, need more than 40# to kill a moose.

Hey! Is it my turn to say that it’s a lot easier to find a picture of a dead moose then it is to find a picture of one that was wounded and got away?

If it’s any consolation I’m feeling a hell of a lot better about taking my #59 longbow to Newfoundland this fall!

On a really good day it will, but you owe it to the moose for that extra margin to give him and honorable and merciful death. He gives his life, and it should never be to suffer so that you can say that took it with as little as possible. How much value do you put on the moose's life, or your's for that matter?

I'm thinking most that have posted have neither hunted or taken a moose.

Thanks Tucker posting your moose statistics and photos and to Glynn for posting the Ashby report.

Well I may to rethink my poundage period. My horse said no on monday and beat the snot out me. I can barley walk or pick up a cup of hot tea.

We generally end up shooting smaller animals, usually the first legal animal we can find. This particular one was shot in September 2015 with a 61# BW PSA V. The moose ID me and turned as I shot, poor hit. I hit the animal high in the hind quarter and the arrow completely penetrated and came to rest up close to the spine taking out a bunch of blood vessels. I didn't go after him until next day. He traveled about 300 yards. I don't think I would have recovered this animal with a bow of lesser than 50#. Feel free to crap on me for the bad shot.

Rick

Squire, Thank you for being honest.

Squire, I appreciate the honesty and the real life scenario we can all contemplate before heading out after really large animals.

THATS EXACTULLY WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.thank you for that story

I have killed a few moose. The last one in Newfoundland. I have killed two Alaskan moose all with bows less than 50 lbs. The last moose I killed was serverely quartering away and the arrow went in behind the ribs. It buried to the fletch and he staggered off and laid down in tall stuff over my head. He went about 60 yards and I could see blood on the offside on trees. The guide was a rifle hunter and wanted me to get up on him and shoot him again. LOL. Bless his heart. We got up on a huge rock where we could see him and the guide wanted me to take his rifle and shoot him. I watched him for about 3 minutes until he put his head down. The guide wanted me to shoot him for good measure. I thought I was going to have to shoot the guide. LOL. I insisted we watch him for and hour. He did not move at all. The guide to this day does not believe a bow could kill a moose.

"LOL"

Where the pic of your moose BABYSAPH????

Wow, great to see all the guy's whose arrows bounced off the scapula write in and give us their blow by blow. What does a thread like this prove? You know virtually nobody will fess up. And many jurisdiction ban 40 pound bows, so you won't be getting any info from them. Why don't we have a picture thread where people hold their hands apart to indicate the largest salmon or bass they caught. No need to say which species, it doesn't make any difference.

--------------------------------------

But obviously you can do it. That was never the reason for using more than 40 pounds. Harry Elburg laid it out when he said he wanted to be able to blow through the scapula on a deer. If you watch the barebow tourneys they have on Youtube, you can see plenty of "world champions" miss the barn from 20 yards, indoor conditions, now and again, so no pretending people never miss or animals never move.

This place used to crow about how their gear was better than what the compound guys used, heavy arrows, and COC heads. Times change. Thank goodness that giving up 180 fps to the compound guys is no biggie.

If you used a bow less than #50 lbs in Alaska then you sir broke the law. We have a #50 lb minimum for moose here.

Simply to clarify:

My position is that bows of 40 pounds are at the extreme low end of the margin for animals like moose. Technically can do the job .... and so can a moped in certain conditions. I'm definitely NOT belittling anyone's choice of a bow, but there has to be a point where we acknowledge the boat isn't big enough for the water. If someone does it and succeeds that's good, but I don't think it's good enough (40 pounds) to suggest it works as a matter of routine for guys wondering what bow weight they need to kill a mature Alaska moose.

I killed my first bull on a Yukon hunt. The bow was a 56# at 28" recurve. I thought it was a little light, but definitely more than enough. The shot was broadside at 12 yards and I punched the ribs perfectly. The 2-blade barely cleared the hide on the off-side. The bull galloped right past my partner hiding behind a small spruce, actually spraying blood on him. Down and dead after a short 50 yard run.

Yes it will. #200

I know this- if I killed a moose with ANY stickbow- you’d better get used to seeing my picture with it.

Sawtooth X2

In a photo album in my bookcase.

And actually if truth be told Id recommend 70 lbs for starters .

Sadly, no pics.

See the vertical crease in the bull above? The vast majority of the lung space is forward of that vertical crease. This bull was on his way to me as I took pictures. I killed him a minute or so after the last picture. That big shoulder muscle doesn't invite a light arrow or low weight bow.

This one went down quickly. The shot was under 20 yards and the bow was my 63# at 28" longbow.

Kevin, I see what you mean. That's a lot of muscle mass to get through. Could you tell some information on the arrow you used ? Material, weight, and broadhead, etc. Thanks for posting.

Yes Bluesman

I've killed most of my bulls with carbon arrows. Nothing too fancy there...often Beman or Axis with a 175 gr Abowyer Wapiti head. I typically add 75 gr adapters to make a 250 gr total head. I've also killed them with Surewood (Douglas fir) shafts and the same head. I much prefer a STIFF arrow for larger game. My overall thought is to use a good stiff shaft which comes out of the bow straight and quick. Equip it with a strong broadhead unlikely to curl if it hits bone.

That's an excellent picture and explanation Kevin.

Will a 60# selfbow be ok?

Wow! I never thought this thread would go on like this. LOL Actually I used the wrong title. I was joking when I ask is 40 pounds enough for moose because of all the light bow threads that have been on here. Actually I was commending Russ Mcgoodwin for being able to live out his dream hunt and kill a Shiras moose in his home state of Colorado after waiting over 20 years for a tag. And he did it at age 77. He normally hunts with a 50 pound bow but a bad case of Arthritis prevented him shooting that bow. And before anyone comes on here and says they wouldn't hunt moose if that is all they could shoot, you need to put yourself in his position. He is a life long trad bow hunter with a lot of experience. If you haven't read the article in the TBM magazine then you need to read it, it is in the latest issue of TBM. I for one certainly hope I am able to shoot and hunt when I'm 77 years old. The way these years go by It won't take long to get there! everyone have a great weekend.

Kevin, What was the total weight of your arrow ? Thanks.

No clue on arrow weight, except moderately heavy. I have never weighed a finished arrow in my life. I just know what kills with room to spare.

Yea Bluesman. Some on here don’t believe people kill things on here. Lol

How do we know pics aren’t photoshopped ???

I don’t know what the fuss is with #40 when Bluesman & friends are using fractions of a pound....

LOL

Looks like you guys have an idea what you’re up to.

And to go all the way back up to the OP here…

Anybody who is not happy for the hunter in the article has got to be a thoroughly unhappy & unpleasant person. That doesn’t mean that anyone should recommend that draw weight for that kind of a hunt.

And I honestly can’t believe that anybody is unclear on either of those two points. I’m just summarizing.

Don't know anything about killing moose, but, sure am enjoying the pics. Thanks

Nice pictures. I always enjoy looking at successful hunting pictures.

GF you obviously need to read the story before making any comments.

Bluesman thank you and Kevin Dill and the others for posting pics.

Nothing can kill this thread, including a 40# bow :)

“hope this helps the doubters and now lets see the low poundage moose kill photos” There aren’t going to be many because most guys are doubters on what the low poundage bows can do and don’t use them. Photos of dead moose are taken by those who kill them and most don’t use low poundage bows. Moose are big animals with tough hides and bones. Use as much bow as you can and are confident with- just know that it doesn’t take a real he-man bow to kill them.

"will 40 #'s kill a moose"

if droped from high enough

Flinger -

“ Anybody who is not happy for the hunter in the article has got to be a thoroughly unhappy & unpleasant person. That doesn’t mean that anyone should recommend that draw weight for that kind of a hunt.”

I will stand by that whether I have read the article or not. Matter o’ fact, pretty sure you just proved my point for me.

But you’re free to tell me where you think I’ve got it wrong...

You know the argument is really this... arguement 1 " I shoot light weight and it works for me so everyone needs to shoot light weight or they are crazy!"

Argument 2 "I shoot heavy weight and it works for me so everyone needs to shoot heavy weight or they are unethical!"

Light weight to some is not light weight to others. Heavy weight to some is not heavy weight to others. Yes, some people should be shooting less weight. Yes, some people could be shooting more weight.

All things must be considered when deciding if you are truly comfortable with what you are using except what someone else thinks of you. Now if you don't have any experience with the question, I get that looking for advice is a good way to go about making a decision. Just not sure that i would look to the masses to help make such a decision.

Shirah's moose are not canadian moose and definately now Alaska/Yukon moose. Bears and deer are crepe paper targets and can be taken with a marshmellow and a flip... until they can't.

In any situation, know your limitations and try not to question them in the heat of the moment.

I shot a canadian moose with a 108 lb copound. Penetration was 4" at best... but with 200 lb, it still wouldn't have killed the moose. It was simply a poor hit although it had nothing to do with being over bowed. Hit it in the hump.

I shot another canadian moose with an 85lb longbow and 800g arrow in the crease. animal was moving and very much alert. Also at a bit more than desireable angle. Upon impact, I heard a resounding Crack like two 2 x 4's smashing together. Arrow only penetrated 7" maybe. Watched the animal trot away for over a mile, but he just kept going... maybe two miles. 200 lb might have made the difference, but then 40 would have been just as lethal as my 85 lb.

Shot my last Canadian moose with a 300 mag to the brain! it had both an entrance hole and an exit hole. Pretty sure I couldn't have done that with a bow and didn't bring a .22 with me. I love that moose and am very proud of it even though it was only a 25 yard shot at best and to this day have to fight off the urge to say, "but I used a gun". Chose the brain shot because I wanted too and I couldn't see the animal below his chin. Blood trail was sparse, but short!

In a perfect world, I wouldn't have just wasted the last 10 minutes of my life typing this as experiences are lost on deaf ears.

BigJim

“In a perfect world, I wouldn't have just wasted the last 10 minutes of my life typing this...”

But sometimes you have to get all of your thoughts out in order to get to the critical point. Which in this case, I think, you NAILED with this one:

“ All things must be considered when deciding if you are truly comfortable with what you are using except what someone else thinks of you. ”

I think Big Jim said it all. Wether or not your bow is heavy is up to you. After my shoulder surgery 25 lbs was heavy. Lol now it's more like 55. I'm going to hunt with 48 lbs and kill most anything I make a good shot on.

What is it about “most anything I make a good shot on” that’s not so reassuring?

I would bet most POOR PENETRATION problems or unrecovered animals from PERFECT hits....are anything but. Doing blood tracking and figuring out where they say they hit versus where it was actually hit when found with good dog proves that most hunters grossly over estimate their shot accuracy and impact points.

I think poor penetration is attributed to a few things...too light arrow for bow and distance.....not using cut on contact broadhead....poor arrow flight....poor release that induces poor arrow flight.....target panic that is not acknowledged where they pluck string terribly....and an alert/jumpy animal that is moving when hit.

At close range with property tuned arrow and scary sharp broadhead...I would not hesitate to hunt really big game with 40# bow. I am shooting a 41# Browning Safari II from 1966 that is in mint condition...and the authority it sends that arrow to my bag is impressive...my arrows are 550 grains. Doug Fir, 160 head, fletching.....

Again....most poor shots/recovery are attributed to a whole host of causes....the LEAST OF WHICH is bow poundage. The yahoo behind the bow is much more important to the success than the weight of the bow!!!!

keep em sharp,

ron herman

It is usually entertaining to say the least, when these conversations take place.. They always go to the extreme examples to both sides of the scale.. One thing for sure is you won't change anyone's mind who aren't really in this to listen.. One positive in this is, The bowhunter who has been doing this for decades on end, gradually dropping bow weight and tweaking equipment accordingly, never has, nor never will, really care what others think they know, what is best for them..

"I'll take a scary sharp head out of a 40 pound bow over a dull one and a 100 pound bow any day."

As will I. Upon reviewing this thread I see no indication that heavier bow poundage negates the need for a super-sharp broadhead, nor does it overcome the problems caused by a dull one. And I've seen more than one light-poundage bow-toter whose broadheads were neglected, or never correctly sharpened. To get the most out of any setup...no matter the bow...the broadhead obviously needs to be dangerously shaving-sharp.

it means that lower poundage bows will kill if put in the vitals and heavy bows will to kill if you do not get in the vitals. Just like Big Jim said above. My 48 pounds is heavy to me so I am good to.

The problem with the gun analogy is that it is no harder to pull the trigger on a 300 mag than a .22. But it is much harder for some to shoot 80 ibs. vs 45. Now if I could shoot a hundred pound bow and pulling it back felt like a 40 lb bow I would shoot the 100 lb bow.

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