How to Get Good

The thread 'Release Drills or Practice' got me thinking. All these threads are about shooting to the best of our ability and shortening the learning curve, using easily repeatable form to do this. That thread had some criticism of blank bailing being boring. In addition, Viper said it should be done with a purpose. Those two statements go hand in hand. Frankly, I can't see blank bailing without a purpose and I guess if I could it would be boring. On the other hand, when it's 30 below with a 30 mile an hour wind, I can work on my form and that's a lot less boring then NOT shooting.

So if we're trying to shorten the learning curve, the fastest way that I can think of is good form (see above easily repeatable). How do we learn that? A sequence is one way. How do we learn a sequence? Well, the easiest way is to get rid of aiming. Blank bailing. If you have something set up in your basement, garage or a closet, you can blank bail when it's 30/30 or before bed or first thing in the AM. A lot less boring then NOT shooting.

Let me just interject here that if we didn't aim, there would be no such thing as TP. We could judge archery like diving instead of have the arrow score for us. LOL I have to entertain myself once in a while, thanks for putting up with me.

So, back to getting good. We spent all winter blank bailing. That form and sequence is now drilled into our head. The problem we now have to address is allowing the arrow to start scoring for us – ADD THE DREADED AIMING. AND THE BEST WAY to do this is by adding aiming small increments at a time – a bridge program. A bridge between not aiming to aiming.

Len Cardinale developed the program. The key is to take '40 nothing less than perfect shots'. We've been shooting all winter at 6 feet or 2 yards for form. Now we can move to 5 yards and take 40 shots. Not a stretch to think that all 40 might be perfect, we've only moved back 3 yards. BUT then we can move to 10 yards. Now, make 40 'NLTP' shots and you can move to 15. Hit 38 and flub 39, you're back at 1 and don't move back.

Let me add something here. At 5 yards we've introduced a target and although the idea is to shoot a bullseye, the '40 NLTP' shots are concerned with form not scoring. And in a practice session you don't have to devote the whole session to the bridge program. Give it an hour, half, 15 minutes and your on the road to good from and better shooting. Any kind of shooting is NOT boring.

Bowmania

You can get good without even drawing a bow. Using the imaginary bow and feeling instead repeating like a robot has its benefits. For me, personally, the single way to take out the aiming from the shot sequence is to focus on feel of the shot, not denying its existence. You take out the aiming and your mind will jump to Covid, "what is that noise?" etc.

We don’t have 30 below in South Texas so I substitute flight instead of bale. I have accomplished much with Draven’s method also.

Todd, if you flub the 39th shot at 15 yards do you start over at 15 yards or do you move up to 10 yards? Do you go back to blank bale to fix your problem before you start again at 15 yards?

Gents, the “40 good shots“ is just a way to make someone to shoot the same every shot like is the first one. It’s about discipline not about nailing the bullseye over and over - this is a potential result of disciplined shooting.

Barthur, You did 40 at 10, no need to go back. Do 40 at 15.

As I recall Rod Jenkins said it took him a year and a half to get to 40 yards. A lot depends on how honest you want to be. It's not easy and getting good is not easy.

I never got past 30, but I deal with 30/30 and now bad shoulders. Every spring I'd start all over. One of the years I got to 30 I was going sheep hunting. I was really good at 40 and pretty good at 50. I remember concentrating at the longer distances. I had to take a shot at 15, because of someone else being on the range and I wasn't that good. I mean pounding 35-40, I expected an X at 15. It was not, still a kill shot. But I found out you can't neglect anything.

It's not the only way to get good of course, but it's one of the best. And if you think of it, you can see why. Form is the answer.

For me, I actually think one of the best things I do is at least 3 shots when I got to bed in my mind. It's not affected by 30/30 and last night I shot a stone sheep. I can remember everything from nocking the arrow to waiting for a 1/4ing away shot. LOL.

Seriously most of the shots in my mind are what I'm working on with my shot. If it's blank bail, bridge program, or treesand, that's what I picture.

Bowmania

You get good by executing the same shot sequence (regardless of what that looks like) every time.

Too many folks spend too much time changing too many things to ever get as good as they could.

There was a local fellow at our archery club back in the 60's who kept changing his setup...nearly every week. He tweaked this and tweaked that and never could shoot more than about a 230 on the 300 round...shooting freestyle with a target bow. He was a great guy but just couldn't get his head around consistency in form first.

ok so you are only concerned with form. Am I reading that right? So wouldnt someone with bad form need some coaching on good form so the shooter doesnt move back too soon thinking he has good form. And at what point does the accuracy come in? In other words it is possible that a person could have good enough form to move back but still not hitting the bullseye. Great post btw

If shooting a traditional type of bow could make some money and put food on the table, won't be long before you'll see some great shooters out there. If gambling makes more, than there will be more of them than great bow shooters out there.

A real good friend, who passed two years ago, was a great gambler and golf player. He learneed to play golf from his father and uncle during the thirties when times were tough. After the war, he fed his family gambling on the golf course. Long time passed before he turned pro 'cause he could make more gambling than being a pro. He finally did and was in the top ten on the money list for years and won the Masters in '57 (came in second in '58). His physical ability was amazing 'cause he had an offer to play baseball with the Yankees when he was young too, but he became so consistent with his swing, he knew just how to change it as needed, for better or worse, to sucker another pigeon so he could feed his family. In these times, bet we'll see some great shooters out there if they need to be to feed their family.

Here's another dog story:

There was couple who took me in as a friend when I was young and introduced me to field archery. The wife, had just learned to shoot a few before from the husband, who coached me when I first learned to shoot. When I met them, she had just been on tv shooting into the holes of 45rpm records for a demonstration.

During local and regional events they took me to, she was often in severe abdomenal pain. Despite this, she took her physcial pain with her to CA and won the NFAA nationals, after only shooting a bow for a few years. Won it again soon after. She died when going to an event in NY, and her husband told me she had cancer but never told anyone. Not even him till the end. She was as consistent shooting four arrows into the center at the 80yd walk up as she was killing a swamp rabbit at the brush piles. Determination made her consistent in a very short amount of time. Lots of things make a person consistent, but determination sure helps speed up the process.

Great thread Todd. Bridge targets should be large for the distance.

Your brain is an amazing computer and it will center things up for you, good form and execution will result in small groups even on a big bullseye.

Doug Ford won the 57 masters beating Sam Snead

And Doug Ford finished 2nd to Arnold Palmer in 58. I was 2

Someone mentioned dogs. As any dog trainer will tell you the thre words are repetition, repetition, repetition. Sounds familiar. I don’t blank bail but I try and work form and shot sequence in my garage and could care less where arrow goes. Hard to miss target in 13 feet of my indoor range.

RonL

I don't disagree with the premise, but at some point you have to quit working on the process and start concentrating on the objective of hitting the target.

Frank that's the Bridge Program. Adds aiming small increments at a time. In fact 5 yard increments. I try to work on the process from January to now, turkey season. You don't need to be too good for a 10 yards shot. From now on it's aiming time.

Made me think of the old saying that, "aiming is only 10& of the shot". It's really true. Your average sequence has 10ish points to run through. KSL 11. Try to shoot with out aiming? Try to shoot without hooking. They ALL are important and you can't have a solid shot without each one.

Bowmania

I get it Todd.

But here is the thing that needs to be explained. What is a "perfect shot" that folks are trying to replicate 40 times?

If we are introducing aiming to the equation then it has to include not only consistent execution, but also x ring accuracy for it to be considered a "perfect" shot. That moves things to a whole different level.

Nope that's not the point of the bridge program. I've probably only made 5 maybe 10 perfect shots in my life time. Perfect? Look at an arrow in the X ring of a blue face. A perfect shot is pretty rare. You maybe in the X ring, but you'll see it's off center

If you add in perfect accuracy for the bridge program you'd need a hooter shooter to get off 5 yards. As I said above you work on the bridge program for part of your practice time. The form work. Even if I'm not working on a bridge program, I start practice with a BB and/or end it with BB. (unless it's close to hunting season)

"Perfect" is in the eye of the beholder. I'll bet for everyone, the 40 shots at 5 yards is not as perfect as the 40 shots at 20. Depends on how honest you want to be. A perfect shot exactly in the X ring, may not be a perfect shot form wise. We can make mistakes that turn out good. And on the other side of the fence, we can shoot a 4 ring that feels good.

Bowmania

And that's the point I was trying to get you to make.

"Perfect" shots don't look the same for everyone. If the arrow isn't in the x ring the shot isn't "perfect". The execution MAY have been (but not likely if someone else us judging you) but the result or reaching of the objective was less than perfect.

In my opinion there are no "perfect shots", there are just "shots you felt good about the way you executed them". The accent is on feeling not on the result. The result is consequence of that feeling. Yes, there are shots that felt good but the arrow is 3" away from X or shots that felt bad and the arrow is in the X. Archer's maturity should take these as they are: anomalies.

Maybe I've been shooting too long, but there is no way after 40 NLTP shots at 5 yds, I won't have enough intact arrows for the 10 yards attempt, unless I start aiming.

elkslayer4x5 if you shoot one arrow at a time you will break nothing. I believe that shooting at 5 yards teaches you nothing about your execution, it is just a small boost of confidence that what you did until now is not in vain.

Todd, I always appreciate your posts. Sure missing the Ojibwa Trad shoot this year. I really wanted to take my new Wapiti there. Bill

I appreciate Todds posts as well.

He and I just have discussions related to some of them.

Draven, just curious, why does shooting at 5 yards teach you nothing about exacution? I've been trying to get past 5 yards for the past couple of days but I've not done so yet. I do believe my excution is getting better.

If you read above, almost everybody is associating hitting the X with the perfect form. At 5 yards you will hit the X no matter how is your imperfect is your form.

If you read above, almost everybody is associating hitting the X with the perfect form. At 5 yards you will hit the X no matter how imperfect is your form.

I tried it today but after backing up from 5 to 10 and then 15 I was having trouble with good form after 120 shots with my 90 lb bow.

Not everybody. I don't unfortunately.

I've been trying like crazy to beat this target panic and develop proper form and release.Did the Casto regime,but still having problems.I can shoot with good form,proper release and follow through at ranges up to abut 15-17 yards all day long. problems show up at 20 yards and beyond. Just can't go through the matrix without letting go a little prematurely,sometimes without getting a solid anchor. Still trying to find what may work,but it's a struggle.

clicker

Yes,I tried a clicker and it helped. tried the limb mounted type and never seemed to get it adjusted just right. Also tried the hand held clicker and found it didn't work at all for me. I'd rather not go back to a clicker.

How long did you try these things. It takes 21 to 30 days to break a habit.

I once coached a guy who want to beat TP with a clicker. I saw him about two months later and asked him how it worked. He said it didn't. I asked him some questions and found out he gave up after a week.

I actually learnd more from that than he did.

If you haven't had any proper coaching it's very hard to set up a clicker properly. Loop the clicker string and feed it through the flemish string. The loop should be large so that when you get toward full draw the loop is getting pulled out.

Now have someone stand behind you and a couple of feet above you. Draw back slowly and have them tell you when your elbow is in line with the tip of the arrow. Then let down.

Now, take the tag end of the clicker line and put it throught the remaining smaller loop and pull it tight. Now, it will only click on the other side of alignment - the 'J', you have to go around the corner.

I once had a click set perfectly. At times I couldn't make it go off. After time I discovered, I had to have my grip and hook perfect to make it click. That was a little long. Still taught me something. Everyone should learn to use one. It's the best way to discover what a good release is if you don't have a formaster.

Bowmania

Im not sure hitting the "x"on a blue face on the crossbars is a true definition of a perfect shot.There have been shots Ive made on that target in the past that made me wonder how it got there,in my mind those definitely werent perfect shots I was just immersed in the aiming moment of the shot process.

The local shop here is of the opinion that hitting the"x"is great archery and if you miss the"x" it was a bad shot and you need to try again,this is being taught to young kids that this is archery!

Another great post Todd. It does come all together but you have to stay with it. It's easy to get frustrated and go back to your "old ways".

Hitting the X is the goal of archery or any other shooting sport. Whether its a blue face target, or the vitals of a game animal.

While I completely agree with the precept that a consistent, repeatable shot sequence is important, one should not lose sight of the objective.

Some folks I've met have gotten so caught up in the process of executing a "perfect" shot that they don't leave enough free bandwidth to focus on aiming for even the short period of time it takes to do.

Kind of a "modern" form of target panic.

If one never aspires to shoot further than 17.3 yards, they can get good quicker...at least good enough to hit a vital the size of a soccer ball. Some may want to get gooder than just good. :)

If one never aspires to shoot further than 17.3 yards, they can get good quicker...at least good enough to hit a vital the size of a soccer ball. Some may want to get gooder than just good. :)

Up until now I've never heard of the 40 NLTP. This is something I'm sure will help me... probably a lot! Good post!

Thanks Todd!

I shot the only buck I ever got with a bow.It was a real nice ten point and made the Pope and Young list back it 1967.At the time 126 and 4/8 total points were enough to make it. Point is,It was a standing shot and I paced it off at 17 yards.Maybe that is my limit. Today, I tried relaxing a little more by opening my mouth slightly (No clenched jaw) and pulling back on the corner of my mouth.Seemed to help bunches and didn't feel like a was rushing the shot at 20+ yards. Maybe I found something that works for me.I'd like to be able to have complete control and be able to let down any time in the whole process. Not quite there yet.

If you shoot at moving targets, you will forget about form - grip- stance and everything but the target, then you will get better much faster.

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