I walked in my office the other day and saw the buckskins that have been hanging in my office for many years now... a quiet reminder of a great man, the late Rev Stacy Groscup. As I looked at then I had mixed feelings - the grief I’ll always feel for him, sadness that he was gone but also happy that I had so many great years to absorb lessons and wisdom from my mentor. He was such a unique man. Like Teddy Roosevelt, he knew a little about everything. He had boundless energy even into his 80’s. I’ve written about him before and some here probably know his story.

He tossed the first aerial target I ever shot at. We hunted, shared the stage and practice range and would often talk for a few hours long distance on the phone. He was a Godly man and I could write so many examples of why he was a good role model.

I wanted to write about Stacy. That was on my mind tonight.

Frank

Sorry about the photo. I’ll try and get a better one to post.

I walk by those buckskins every day but sometimes it just gets me. I will miss my old mentor.

Frank, a lot of things hit us like that as we get older. It gets so that there are few left who remember what we remember. I miss my dad and father-in-law especially because I stored their memories as they told me stories about the culture they grew up in, the objects of those times and family history. Now, there's nobody to reminisce with.

It's a good thing God never changes and never leaves us. I take comfort and courage in rereading the thoughts he has given us in His word.

Beautiful post Frank and Jim. I agree 100%.

Stacy was a true positive.

When he first passed, Sept 20, 2005 it took awhile for me to accept... our heroes aren’t supposed to die. But it reinforced the old saying that we are only here for a little while. Instead of debating and discussing silly things, let’s focus on the big picture. How can we honor our fathers, mothers and mentors..and more importantly how can we be mentors to the next generation?!?

Let’s all be kinder to each other. Focus on the positive and let go of the negative. We are all here for a little while. Let’s spend that time doing big things. And things that matter.

I have had all this Nugent debate on my mind recently and wondered what Stacy would tell me. I know those that disagree about Nugent are vets and I’m very supportive and respective of people that wear our country’s uniform. So that was on my mind. Some people just like to argue, some like to sit and watch these debates unfold. So I wondered what Stacy would tell me. I think he would tell me that sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move along. Big picture no one really changes each other’s minds on social media - whether it’s politics or Nugent. Then I thought about Jesus. He often hung out with people that the very religious didn’t approve of. The poor. Tax collectors. Prostitutes. Not the cream of society. Jesus went where people needed love, patience and kindness. I’ve seen the good in Nugent. I see a man today that does good.

Then I reflected on my shows. When I do my shows I see the smiles on little faces. To me that’s the big picture. Yes it’s my job, but like many jobs being paid isn’t the only reward. It’s thinking that maybe one little one listens then they can grow up outdoors with their family, honoring God and living their best life. I was lucky to have wonderful parents and many good role models. Friends like Fred Bear, Dick Mauch, the Hoyt’s and others. And Stacy. Especially Stacy.

I do self promote. But guys there’s much more to my show than that. Thanks in part to Stacy’s influence. I miss you Stacy. Sti- Ute old friend.

Frank

Thank you Frank for your wealth of historical archery preservation.

I was blessed to have the opportunity to meet Stacy in 1990, at a "whitetail jamboree" in Burlington, N.J. Unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to watch him work his magic with a bow. I was manning the UBNJ booth and didn't want to leave it unattended. Gene Wensel had a booth right next to mine, so it was all good!

Frank, I remember reading an article about Rev. Stacy years ago. You were blessed to have him for a friend and mentor. It’s true what Jim said about thinking of these things more as we get older.

Let it go Big Bear. Here’s how we can solve the problem, just skip my threads. Simple. And I’ve always said I self promote. Countless times here. I’m sure you can find examples where I say that.

I am a friend of Nugent’s. I self promote. What I’ve said for ten years to the “become a sponsor debate” is that I don’t sell anything here members can buy. That’s the difference. And we have discussed that Pat and Phil have seen my show. The man you truly need to debate is Ted. Evidently it’s easier to type words here to me, than debate him.

As a Christian we are taught to forgive. May I ask how you feel about that ?

Why invade the threads and continue this debate that doesn’t change?

Frank

Its to bad that Big Bear derailed this thoughtful thread. This was already hashed & rehashed before. Some folks just always have to get the last word in. Hopefully this can get back on topic.

INVADE YOUR THREADS !!!!! WHO THE HECK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE

Uh oh

Stacy’s pipe, also a quiet reminder.

A man that saw good in all men. Stacy taught me that God doesn’t bring tragedy on anyone but promises a blessing if we are faithful. A man that lectured me when i needed it, a man that illustrated how to treat others. And a man that was kind and good. Like Jesus, he went about life doing good for others.

My goal in my shows is to sprinkle lessons learned from men life Stacy, Mauch, Fred and others in so that the younger generation can learn some of these lessons. Turn off the video games. Turn off the computer and tv and get outdoors with your family. Every show is a little More than an archery show- by design. I love my job. Having this opportunity means a great deal to me.

And by the way Phil, I noted the all caps. If you don’t know who I am by now I must not be self promoting very well. I’ll Try and do better. (Joking)

Frank

By the way, interesting story. Stacy and I once did over 25 shows in one three day weekend. They were mini shows. Anyway, in those days I shit bare fingered. My fingers throbbed after that weekend for a day or so. Stacy took a tab off a hook on his quiver and gave it to me. A flat simple leather homemade tab. I used that exact tab from 1990-2008. The leather wore out at the Wisconsin Deer Classic. Stacy has made some Additional tabs for me - and I had those. So I’m now on #2. Another Quiet reminder. I carry it in my wallet. Every time I put it on just before I walk out on stage I think of my old friend and smile.

It’s the little things.

Frank

Wow, sorry for the typo. My iPhone. So sorry. I “shot” bare fingered. Wow. That was a bad typo.

haha for a minute there i thought wow he's a tough guy!

Frank, I watched one of your shows on you tube last night, I saw you deliver a message to the folks and especially the youth. Good job on what your doing, keep up the good work. Enjoying the outdoors is something I shared with my parents and I still do to this day. Staying active in the outdoors will create bonds in relationships and memory's that will last a life time. Keep up the good work and stay close to Jesus.

Yep I feel your feelings ever so much this just stirred up feelings about my father and started me thinking about him.

It's funny how things work like this it stirs up feelings not all finished with that seem to stay with us for life.

God designed it this way don't you know. Frank you reach a lot of people just like Stacey had and you have been entrusted with that when he left.

Thats a tall order as you already know.

God sets us apart but brings us together in many ways unexplained at times.

Craig Sherwood has me do that event many years ago! Well, maybe 2004 or so. Sixteen years ago. I was supposed to come in 2003 and it was flooded out and you couldn’t get there - but I was able to go the following year and truly enjoyed it. What a historic event. Sherwood Schoch has helped with it for many years. It’s a legendary event. MR James of Bowhunter magazine fame was a speaker too. We shared the barn that night - I think it was a barn. Anyway, it was a great event. You are right.

I hope it continues to go for many years. I was also at Denton Hill in 2010 or so.

By the way, I’ll be at the Allegheny Outdoor Expo in Monroeville in February. Is that near you?

Frank

I think it's quite cool to share this electronic textual campfire with a real live genuine from the hip Trick Shooter. A few years ago he could have been on the road with Cody or Pawnee Bill.

Craig - There’s Sher and MR and myself at the event in Forksville. Stacy did it a number of times.

Frank

Maybe it's just dumb ole country logic, but I'd think as long as this debate has rolled through this website that if the guy who owns the site felt Frank needed to be a sponsor, he'd have told him!

Juspassin- You have a valid point. The owner of the site saw my show in Pa at the PY Convention and Phil saw the show in PA at Cabelas. We had a good lunch afterwards at Red Robin.

This site is full of good people. Really good people. And even these that argue and debate me are probably good people but they are wasting time when they repeatedly bring the same debate thread to thread. What’s the purpose ?!? I’ve been here since 2005. I came here to post about Stacy’s passing and have been here ever since.

Anyway, take care and thanks for the post.

Frank

Craig I talk to Sher often. I’ll mention it. I nominated him for the Archery Hall of Fame. He’s very deserving. Great guy. Fred and Tom Jennings both thought highly of him. Sherwood helped usher in the popularity of the compound bow. He was a great shot with a recurve too ! And side note - also a close friend of Nugent’s.

Frank

If something left me feeling that conflicted everytime I walked by or looked at it I'd either sell it, give it away, or toss it in the dumpster. Life's too short, and there's too many other willing participants to torture yourself! Ya can't live in the past, even says not to in the Bible...so time to move on, perhaps. It's probably what your good friend Stacy would want if he was here to ask him..

Fred- that photo of Stacy is a good one. Taken right there on “Magic Mountain” as he called his home. His widow celebrates her 90th birthday today - and now his grand daughter has two boys that roam that magic mountain. That would give Stacy great pride to know the family he left is growing.

South Farm Im comforted having these quiet reminders of my late friends. They are tokens that speak to many good memories. But i think sometimes it is good to reflect on things - lessons learned from our mentors and family. The Masonic ring I wear that was Dick Mauch’s father’s ring is another quiet reminder. Dick was a wise and trusted advisor. Wise beyond his years.

Frank

My brother Spiro of eternal memory and I got to see Stacy's show at Denton. Spiro is gone too. Great show.

It gets a little easier to deal with his death but I don't think I will ever fully get over it.

Thanks for your frequent calls after he died.

Jawge

Jawge That’s what friends do pal. Remember when I bought the home in Texas I made certain it was Jawge approved so you and Joni would be comfortable for a visit. There’s no watah or LobStah but we got all the red meat and Mexican food you care to eat !!

Frank

Thanks, Frank. I know. :) Jawge

There’s good people here. Like any family we have some that stir the pot but I even think most of them are good people. Most anyway. Ha.

Thanks Jawge.

Frank

Around 1993, I had a booth at the Eastern Traditional shoot in PA. Stacy stopped by my booth on day. He was excited and wanted to show me something. He handed me a short Indian bow. With a big smile on his face he proudly announced that it was Ishi's bow, the same one that was pictured in Pope's book! I could hardly believe it, but Stacy assured me that it was authentic.

Now, Stacy was very popular among the archers at this shoot. A couple of them came over and spirited him away. Stacy said to me as he departed, "Hold on to that bow! I'll be right back."

Well, there I stood in sole possession of a prized bow right out of my favorite old book that was made by Ishi himself!

Time passed and Stacy was nowhere to be seen. I got very busy there in my booth, and not wanting to leave the treasured old bow out, I secured it out of sight.

After two or three hours, I was wondering what happened to Stacy. Shortly, here he came with consternation all over his worried face. He told me that he lost Ishi's bow and couldn't find it anywhere (he had forgotten that he left it with me). You should have seen the relief that came over him when I pulled the bow from its secured hiding place.

Skookum, great story. Sounds like some of my senior moments! Thanks for sharing that with us.

Great stories sometimes all you have left is memories. Kenny J

Fred We all worried when he took that bow to his shows. He would toss it on the ground with the Turkish bow and the others he always packed with him for the public to view, pick up and admire. All of us that traveled with him would worry about them but not Stacy. He always believed in the good of man and always was very calm about such things. I can hear his voice in the story you told. Thanks for sharing it. Wonderful ! Thank you.

I hope I meet you one of these days. I’d love to swap more stories about that great man. What’s ironic is that we found out late in life that Stacy’s father, also a preacher, had Baptized my father when he was born. Then they moved away and Stacy lived 3 hours from us after that. Our families weren’t connected for maybe 30 years. Then as a kid I would throw targets for him and he took me under his wing. He always told my parents he called me his second son. That was a big honor.

Thanks again for remembering a great man.

Frank

Fred There’s the ISHI bow

That’s me tossing targets for Stac as a kid.

With his wife when she gave me the buckskins.

This photo appeared in National magazines and was featured on an ad campaign “I’m the NRA”.

Wow Frank you know all the big shots.

My dad was a Mason. I am not sure if you can wear that ring. I could be wrong.

If he knows the secret handshake are you brothers? Lol

I figured they could hug it out

Perhaps my favorite photo of Stacy. Kindness and love of his fellow man. He was a great mentor and role model. I miss him very much.

Someday perhaps the buckskins can be displayed somewhere but for now I like them close to me as a reminder of him.

Thank all of you for your kind words on Stacy. If you met him once you’d never forget him. The world could use more men like that today.

As a college student Stacy did his doctorate work on the religion of the Native American. He lived with the Cherokee and they taught him many things, including the fact that they had similar Bible stories. Instead of Noah’s ark it was a great canoe. And they also never said good bye, preferring to say Sti-Ute instead. Which meant “be strong”. Be strong mentally, physically and spiritually.

Frank

Perhaps it is time to pass those items along to the Archery Hall of Fame so others can see them as well? His family could attend the event. I know it would be hard to part with it, I get it. You will figure it out someday.

All the best...

Someone asked me about how Stacy got into exhibition shooting. Here’s a quick version. While in seminary, he took a recurve bow and went squirrel hunting one Autumn day. As he walked back from the hunt with a mess of squirrels over his should bow in hand, a fellow student drove up. He asked where Stacy has been and saw the squirrels. He could not believe he took them with a bow. So he got out and there in the ditch was an old yellow Pennzoil can. The guy goes, if you can hit a squirrel you should be able to hit this. He tosses the can into mid air and Stacy nailed it. So the fella asks Stacy to come and put on an archery exhibition for his bible study group. Stacy did and that’s how it all began.

Then a few decades later when I turned 18 he tossed a Pepsi can you And challenged me to hit it. I did and that very day was my first show. That was 35 years ago. Time flies.

Frank

Loose arrow - Perhaps someday. For now they stay with me. All my things in my “collection” are really just things these friends have given me. I’ve never purchased vintage things or collector things. I have signed arrows from many of my friends - from Jim Easton, Earl and Ann Hoyt, etc. someday my sons will inherit it and they can decide where it goes and what happens to it. The buckskins are there as a reminder of a great man. Same with Dick’s Masonic ring, I wear it as a quiet reminder of a great man. Both he and Stacy were good mentors.

Frank

Fred, you should have told Stacy, "I'm sorry for your loss." You could have told him you saw a guy with MN plates leave with it and a turquoise Drake! That would have got the old Mason riled up! No, you had to do the right thing, lol!

Joe

"Strong" in Tsa-la-gi is u-la-ni-gi-da.

Great story Frank.

Babysaph This weekend in Charleston at the WV Hunting and Fishing Show. Show times are as follows :

And for the record, Stacy, Dick and I were Masonic brothers.

That’s all I’ll say about that.

I didn't know you were a Mason.,sorry.,

Babysaph That’s ok. It’s not a big deal, you would have no way of knowing. So don’t give it a second thought. Try and come to the show in Charleston this weekend if it’s close to you.

Frank

Well Frank,Its no secret to anybody that uses the search option on here,that the 2 of us have had a less than stellar relationship regarding your posts on this site in the past..I have come to a realization,along with a warning from Admin,that debate with you,just isnt something i care to continue with and i have refrained from doing so,for quite some time..There is one exception and it is one i have told Admin,i would not refrain from,if presented as such,in future threads and that is,"The Ishi Bow"....

As i stated before,Im not Accusing Mr Groscup of any ill intentions or purposeful false representation but,i am saying he was mislead...That bow is NOT an Ishi Bow,to my knowledge and the subject is one i have experience and knowledge of..I feel it is a misrepresentation and quite Frankly,an irresponsible act,to present it as such on a public forum,without proper verification..If you could produce Verification from someone,with credible knowledge on the subject,i will personally retract my claim and issue a direct apology to you on this site,with a heading stating such..

Traxx Dr Dave Samuels can verify. Do you know of him? Also there are other people with knowledge. Stacy has passed away but I can tell you two things about Stacy. He was as honest as the day is long and he was also very highly regarded. I can tell you how it came into his possession. I don’t know names but Stacy could tell the whole story.

When Pope passed away he had a bunch of archery stuff in his garage. His wife gave it to a mutual friend that was also an archer. This friend’s widow gave that collection to Stacy upon his death. It included some of the original Pope arrows with fluted ends and the broadheads. I have one of these and it is verified to be legit.

Traxx, that’s all I know. Sorry. The history went when Stacy did, but again there are respected sources that can verify. Dr Dave being one of those.

No problem

Frank

I do not know Dr Dave Samuels..Could you point me in the direction of info regarding this man,that verifies him as someone,who has knowledge to be able to verify,that this bow was made by or a personal bow of Ishi??...In the past,i had the privilege of personally handling and examining bows accredited to Ishi,both pre and post life at the university..I can tell you,that none of those bows,were of the style or workmanship of the bow you have presented,nor of the same design,of the bows shown in Popes Book..Now,i will say,that there were some changes of Ishis bows,that i think were influenced by Pope,but the Design was pretty much the same,with the exception of bow length and wood used....I have never been made aware of any selfbow made by Ishi,especially one in which the knots were present and worked around on the back..There was one bow,that Pope Convinced Ishi to Test before the backing was applied and it was Broken..Other than that,i have to go with the notion of what Ishi himself is credited as stating as proper bow design and construction per his opinion and tradition which correlates to everything i have heard,read and witnessed for myself..Unfortunately,i have read Contradicting accounts concerning Ishi's Bows by Pope himself...I am once again,Not trying to accuse Mr Groscup of any intentional misrepresentation.I fear he was mislead by someone,who may have been mislead as well..Now,,If the claim was,this bow was made by Pope,in that time frame,,I would have no opposition to that notion..

Pope Also thought most of Ishis religious beliefs and superstitions were silly and to be discredited by "Civilized" society,as was evident in his performance of an autopsy and removal of organs for,Scientific purposes,knowing it was against his beliefs..

Thanks Frank,,keep doing what you are doing brother,, Jeff w

Traxx Here is a link to a 2008 interview I did with Dave:

https://bowhunting.net/2008/12/straight-talk-dr-dave-samuel/

He was also inducted into the Archery Hall of Fame. He has a PHD in Wildlife biology and has authored many articles, books and videos. I believe his other activists have been in Bowhunter education and organizations like PY.

I can not adequately explain the ISHI bow or how Stacy came to possess it but I can assure you it is the real deal. It is secure along with Stacy’s evolution of the bow collection.

A side note. Stacy was a Methodist minister. He had a lifelong interest in archery and would speak and teach many of archery in his time. One of the things he did was do an exhibition and teach the salesmen of Cadillac how to shoot archery. They came to the historic Greenbrier hotel once a year for a national sales meeting. One year the bows were late coming from Bear archery so Fred personally drove them down. There he met Stacy. Stacy was showing Fred a Turkish coathanger bow and telling him how well and fast a very short bow performed in the woods. Shortly after it helped inspire Fred to build which bow in his line ?!?

Also, the Cadillac salesmen has a contest after Stacy’s demo and teaching. They each got to try and shoot an Apple off of a mannequin’s head and whoever did it won the keys to that year’s newest model car.

I found it great that there was a Stacy/Fred connection.

——————

Elderly Well, All I can tell you is that Stacy felt an item like that belonged out where he could teach with it, explain history and let the public hold and see it. He had once donated some archeological items to the university near his home and all that stuff was put in a box and stored. Never displayed. After that Stacy always resisted donating to any museum. He had his own in his home and the bows went around the room in a cliques pattern telling the evolution of the bow. His son was in law enforcement and that collection is secure. Stacy was well aware of the value of the bow but he trusted people and the bow was always safely there after the show. Usually one of us (his son, son in law or me) watched over it closely.

Frank

http://archeryhalloffame.com/Groscup%20Stacy2.html

With all due respect to Dr Dave Samuels for his accomplishments and contributions,i dont believe they are qualifications,to verify this bow,as an Ishi manufactured Bow..I know Anthropologist that have studied Ishi and his culture,who are not archers and are not familiar with the fine details and intricacies of Ishis archery Tackle and could not accurately designate an item as such...One of them being a relative of mine and published on Native people in the region and he has consulted me on a couple occasions as to my opinion and debate regarding Artifacts and culture..This was quite the honor,considering the mans arrogance toward anyone,without a "degree",but he knows my families history and experience,connected to the subject..So,until you can obtain verification of this bow as authentic,by someone with the knowledge to do so,such as Mr Steve Allely or someone with the qualifications such as the late Dr Grayson,,im going to have to remain a Skeptic of the claim..

Fair enough Traxx. It’s legit but now that Stacy’s passed and the bow is securely put away, it’s a mute point. Stacy was as real as they come and had no reason to fabricate or make up the background on the bow. He would know and so would Dr Samuels and others that saw the bow.

Frank

How many times,do you feel the need to come to the defense of Stacy Groscup,as if i was accusing him of fabricating the claim,when i have stated multiple times,i am not..As i stated,i feel he was mislead..Was Mr Groscup an expert on the subject of Ishis Archery tackle?...I seriously doubt it and are those others?..I doubt it as well.I wonder,if they would put that expert verification in writing?.....Legit to whom???..Hypothetically speaking,,If you were to try and sell that bow as such,you would be severely disappointed at the value that would be placed on the bow,without verification by someone with expert knowledge on the subject..He said she said,word of mouth evidence,would not cut it,nor would the opinion of someone,who doesnt have extensive time and effort devoted to hands on research of the subject,and i dont mean just cracking a book or watching a documentary regarding the subject..But i digress...Good luck to you..

Stacy took many big game animals. We bear hunted together in Ontario once and unfortunately both came home empty handed. Stacy could tan hides, among other things. The guy could amaze you. He could call big moose in too.

Frank

Traxx You forget one thing. You are the only one voicing this objection. And you are the one that doubts that the bow is legit. Obviously you doubt Groscup because you raised this subject again. And since he’s gone and was like a second father to me yes I defend him.

And the thing is, it’s a mute point since Stacy is gone, ISHI, Pope and the other doctor are gone. I don’t require or desire to have you say, “Ok, it’s legit”. If you fee it isn’t, fine. It’s not nor will it ever be for sale. It’s safely put away. Stacy is gone.

Someone else on the thread commented on the ISHI bow. I mentioned it after that. We continue to waste time in this discussion. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

Frank

Traxx You forget one thing. You are the only one voicing this objection. And you are the one that doubts that the bow is legit. Obviously you doubt Groscup because you raised this subject again. And since he’s gone and was like a second father to me yes I defend him.

And the thing is, it’s a mute point since Stacy is gone, ISHI, Pope and the other doctor are gone. I don’t require or desire to have you say, “Ok, it’s legit”. If you fee it isn’t, fine. It’s not nor will it ever be for sale. It’s safely put away. Stacy is gone.

Someone else on the thread commented on the ISHI bow. I mentioned it after that. We continue to waste time in this discussion. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

Frank

I may be the only one voicing the objection,but not the only one thinking it....

And maybe,im the only one on this site,who possesses the passion to debate a claim i believe,is a misrepresentation of an artifact with such historical archery and cultural significance..

That would have been a debate/discussion more suitable for Stacy. He’s gone. The others that would have direct knowledge are also gone. We could debate all day but Stacy would be the one to settle it. He’s gone. The bow isn’t up for public viewing or for sale, it’s privately put away by the family.

Traxx, I’m afraid we have run out things to discuss about the ISHI bow.

Frank

Ill leave this with another hypothetical scenario,for you to evaluate,to better understand my position..Lets say,i made a claim,that i had in my possession,a Stacy Groscup bow that was one he used in his shows.I claimed it was given to me,by someone who claimed they were great friends of a friend of a friend of Stacy's and knew everything about him..You,having personal knowledge of him and his,was absolutely confident,that it was a misrepresentation.Would you not question that?....No need to reply,,just something for you to ponder on...

LACES OUT!!!

What has been verified is that along with the bow, the arrows were indeed Saxton Pope arrows. Footed shafts with the razor head on the arrow and the feathers and colors that match exactly the Pope arrows that have been photographed - that is a fact. Now if we go on the fact that the things that were with the bow all came from Saxton Pope, and this “stick of a bow “ was with that gear - in my mind it would stand to reason that it is a legit ISHI bow. But I was a child when much of this was discussed and Stacy would be the one that so oils need to explain and verify the bow as legit. Debating or discussing it with me has no merit because I don’t have all the info nor do I have the bow.

It is an ISHI bow. It came from the Pope estate. Perhaps ISHI made it for Pope. I have no idea. I’ve heard Stacy mention Theodora someone but again my memory of it isn’t the best because it’s been more than 30 years since he told me the details.

Frank

KC you been hangin with frisky eh lol

I concur Elderly...I wont even Start in on my thoughts concerning the Name Theodora being used in conjunction with the term Authenticity......

"As a college student Stacy did his doctorate work on the religion of the Native American. He lived with the Cherokee and they taught him many things, including the fact that they had similar Bible stories. Instead of Noah’s ark it was a great canoe. And they also never said good bye, preferring to say Sti-Ute instead. Which meant “be strong”. Be strong mentally, physically and spiritually. "

Nice story, but not accurate at all. "Stay strong" would be, "edoa ulanigida". Nearest word to that phrase is, "Siyu", pronounced "she-you" and simply means, "Hello". Sometimes things take on a life of their own and memories are not accurate.

As long as we are giving language lessons...I can help with Theodora which is Greek for gifts from God. In Greek "Theo" is God and "dora" are gifts.

Theodora was my Yiayia's name and is my daughter's middle name.

I let you figure out want Yiayia mean. :)

Jawge

Who cares if it is his real bow or not. I have one of Fred Bear's bows and arrows. Some don't believe it but I don't care. I know it was his.

The men among Ishi's people,were not known for Wearing Buckskins,as most visualize them among other nations...In cooler weather,a cape of furs were worn...2 capes such as this were taken by the survey party,more exactly,by the Appersons and were later bought back by Kroeber,on his return trip to Deer Creek canyon with Ishi..

Ishis thoughts on the matter of dress were,,that within the new culture he lived,no one else dressed as he did previously,so he dressed as was considered appropriate to the culture he now resided in..Shoes,were his last holdout and it wasnt long before he adapted to them..The only times he dressed in his traditional fashion,after capture and relocation was,when insisted upon by Kroeber for photo ops..

Well Babysaph,,Apparently i care as would a host of others,who have an obsession for the historical,cultural and anthropological significance of such..I feel,your claim of the Bear Bow,has a greater chance of validity as such,with many more people out there qualified to make that validation and with the increased probability of such an item being capable of being in circulation. ..If you so chose to, That would pump the brakes on any doubting Thomas's like myself,concerning the "Ishi" bow..LOL

A couple thoughts.

First of all, the discussion of the validity of the bow would need to be judged by the actual owners and caretakers of the item. Second, if Groscup was given a bunch of items from Pope’s archery collection via a middle man (the Doctor’s widow) and the arrows and other items are legit, I would say that there’s a great chance the bow was also from Ishi’s hands. We can’t know and it isn’t really important at this point. Stacy is gone and the bow securely put away.

Third, Groscup was a great and kind man. Fred Bear helped make me a better archer and promoter, Groscup helped make me a better man. He was a Godly man. When he did his doctorate, he lived with the Cherokee. Since he’s not here anything I type is from memory, so it’s tough to defend what i don’t have all The facts on. He’s in the archery hall of fame and is recognized for 7 aspirin in a row without a miss. He passed away at age 84 in 2005, but he was on stage with me in 2003 and hit the baby aspirin 7th shot. He was amazing. I encourage you to find his abc secrets of the Bible on YouTube where he shoots the sling like David used for Goliath.

Since he’s gone, I respectfully ask you not say unkind things or make those type of negative comments about him. He was like a second father to me. Perhaps since I do shows I invite those comments. Perhaps Nugent also deserves critical comments. Groscup is different. I’ve never seen anyone that knew him that didn’t like and respect him. And there’s no reason to keep the back and forth going regarding the ISHI bow, between these comments and Groscup’s word I lean to what I know and trust.

Frank

How would anyone know if it was real or not except Ishi?

How would anyone know if it was real or not except Ishi?

Frank,,Im not sure what the issue is here..Is it that you refuse to hear others point of view and opinions and take those into consideration and understanding or is it that you cannot? Even when others present valid and legitimate points,it seems they fall on deaf ears,and you revert to your old shtick and sound like a broken record which often, has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand..It always seems to come back to YOU...You are quite Frankly Exhausting and i care for no further dialog..

I know a bit about bows, and I know a bit about Ishi's bows, and I know a bit about Stacy Groscup. After carefully examining the Ishi bow, and personally knowing the honesty and integrity of Stacy, I will have to conclude that the bow that I had in my temporary custody, that day in 1993, was Ishi's bow!

Why all the fuss?

babysaph....

There are some,who have spent countless effort in research and examination of tackle known without a doubt to be of Ishi's manufacture..His methods of manufacture, attitude and reasoning concerning It,have been well documented..There are some,who can account for every bow known to have been made by Ishi at the university and the ones that he possessed prior..There are even bows that have vanished from existence,that some have knowledge of Where they ended up.... 2 in particular,were burned up in structure fires..There have been several bows that have been reported to be Ishi bows in private collections or possession through the years and to those who posses the knowledge,it isnt difficult to determine if they are legit or not..None,of these bows have been verified as such to my knowledge..

Dam now you’ve stooped to picking on his friends clothes, I wouldn’t have expected that from a rootin tootin trick shootin pill crusher.

Stacy indeed was a man of character and unquestionable integrity. You were right sir.

Gentlemen, he passed away and with him went much of his knowledge, skills and info on much of his collection and his evolution of the bow display. I loved having him walk around the room telling about the items. I miss him.

It’s not up to me to prove anything, or explain anything about the ISHI bow. You can believe it or you can choose not to. It matters little to me. I am comfortable knowing a better man that Stacy would be hard to find and he would have wasted little time with this conversation. If he told me it was going to snow oats, I would believe it. He was one of the good guys.

Frank, does Stay's grand daughter still shoot any? I remember seeing pictures of them together, both in their buckskins.

Murray

She’s raising two fine sons and they roam “magic mountain” - Stacy’s nAme for their place. He would be happy knowing they are there. She is a great young lady and a great mom. She hunts and followed her grand dads footsteps staying active outdoors.

I’ll ask her if she’s been shooting much next time I speak with her. I saw a Photo of her with a deer so i know she still hunts.

Frank

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