I've owned this 66"/40# Blacktail Elite for about 3 months now during which time I did my best to refine what arrow configuration worked out best where my focus wasn't about obtaining the utmost in speed and/or flattened trajectories but rather how smooth, quiet, forgiving and pleasant shooting I could get it which resulted in Beman ICS Bowhunter shafts cut 30"s long CON-EOC and tipped with 175gr points for a 440gr/11gpp arrow and now that I had that sorted out?...it was time to get busy making my 2 Doz arrows for this bow and the south Florida 3D season where this morning?...I had the 12gr Goldtip Accu-Lite threaded inserts installed in all bare shats and was ready to begin the process of "Clocking The Nocks"....(Meanwhile?...Coco was busy treeing a squirrel! LOL!)

The process I chose was a simple one where I shot 3 bare shafts at each of 6 different locations on my bales in the general vicinity of the green paint dots that are so fadded I could no longer make out and just sort of picked a spot and then chased that arrow nock wit the following two shots at each location.

Towards the end I found myself doing more "Re-shooting" than I did "Nock-Clocking" due to the fatigue of shooting and re-shooting the shafts that needed the nocks clocked which BTW?...only numbered about )6_ of the (18) bare shafts but the interesting part for me was this...

I've always thought of "Clocking-The-Nocks" as a way of fine tunig spine on a left/right/horizontal plane but running 175gr points at 19% FOC?...in some instances I witnessed nock high/low variences on a vertical plane (and it wasn't my grip) where a 90deg twist of the nock straigtened that out as well.

I'm shooting 3-Under Off-The-Shelf with a Yost Tab...

Nock’s Nock’s , I have some what the same feeling, But different arrows and bows. Jinkster, Have a Merry Christmas.

I'm content enough with the Clocked-Nocks results to begin fletching where I'll be using 3.5" Target Maxx LW Feathers (where I'll be leaving 6 fletched with my old 3X4" shields for the organizations that are hinky enough to mandate such in Trad Recurve Class) but I think the 3.5 Target Maxx feathers will both...

1. Stabilize my arrows faster and?..

2. Offer better base clearance.

I'm also liking the No-Drip viscosity of Gateways G1 Glue and that's it for now....my Bitzenburger awaits. ;)

Or you could have floated the shafts and then put the nocks on.

Bowmania

I don't know, Jinx. You seem to be making it unnecessarily complex. Why not find the stiffest orientation of the shaft and put on the nocks on before you fletch? Or, have you already done that and they still need additional tuning? Seems like turning the nocks could lead to fletching clearance problems.

I roll carbons, or any other arrow shaft for that matter, in my hand to find the stiffest spine orientation and nock accordingly before fletching. One end of the shaft on a hard surface and the shaft angled about 45 degrees, supported by my other hand near the end. Just roll it back and forth a little, and the stiffest orientation of the spine quickly becomes evident.

But, whatever floats your boat.

Orion, If the nocks are clocked before fletching that can't cause a clearance problem. Can it?

Bowmania, my friend, I would like to know more about floating shafts because it didn't work for me. The tiniest weight variance-a drop of glue- anodize -or wrap, will eventually rotate the shaft. Jinkster's way is in the shooting and that is what it is all about. I feel it is sorting spine location more than weight. Thoughts?

Archery is indeed in the details. I love to learn but freely admit I don't take the time for all the little things. I certainly would though if I was still competitive. I am a firm believer in bare shaft tuning and take time for it. I feel that those that think it is unnecessary are missing out.

Jinkster, Good bare shaft shooting. I love your tests, experiments,and tuning videos. Keep them coming.

Merry Christmas to all. >>>>-----> Ken

Bowmania:

"Or you could have floated the shafts and then put the nocks on."

I ahve to admit that "Floating The Shafts" is a cool idea and?...it's noy too late as I've yet to mount the first fletch however un my mind?...just because a shaft is heaviest at a given point makes it highly likely that "It May Be" BUT?...doesn't mandate that it is the stiffest radial location because it could be thicker and stiffer at both ends yet thinner and weaker in the middle yet still be..."The Heavy Side"...but not necessarily the stiffest side.

For ^^That^^ reason?...(*and the below reason too)...I prefer to stick with the application of actual in-flight bare shaft behavior and the results thereof rather than theories.

* I'm not sold on the doctrine that identifying the stiffest side of an arrow shaft and locating it against the strike-plate is a sound one and here's why....

While some shafting is very consistent in spine and others are not?...some of the variance can be attributable to how staight a shaft is or isn't and then take into consideration that despite which side is heaviest or not?...while the concave side of the arrows lack of straightness will serve to make it react dynamically weaker?...the convex side will serve as a "Preload" (of sorts) and make the shafts dynamic reaction stiffer...again?...despite whereever the shafts greatest amount of mass is radially located and beyond that?....

To my way of thinking?...arrow shafting that has a wide span of deflection variance is actually a benefit in that if the arrow is dead nuts .500 all around?...(while consistent)...the archers ability to fine tune is limited to arrow length and point weight whereas the deviations of the more economical shafting may actually have more to offer the archer who is willing to rotate their nocks and find that optimum dynamic spine within their $60 a dozen shafts but like Orion so eloquently put it?..

whatever floats your boat! LOL! :)

I start any tuning with carbons by putting them on my spine tester and finding the stiffest side. Seems to help speed up the process for me. So I guess that’s a form of “clocking the nock”? I bought some Victory shafts the other day that have that info right on the shaft. A novel idea. Jinks, could you tell me more about how that feather shape helps your arrow flight? I am almost considering going back to shooting NFAA field rounds where I have to shoot up to 80 yards. Thank you

So I have to ask the new guy question. Do you guys nock with the stiffest spine to the riser or verticle with the string?

I know that when I build fishing rods, I set the softest spine in the direction you would be fighting the fish so that the rod doesn't try to roll in your hand to get back to where the rod wants to sit. I do that the same way Orion checks his arrows.

It would seem to me the same dynamics would apply to the flex of an arrow off and around a riser, but have no experience testing so have no clue.

Stix:

"If you gotta get yourself into that level of tinkering, you might as well shoot a compound, then you can tinker with the sight, rest, and all the rest...."

The beautiful part of this is that?...

I don't "GOTTA"..it's an "I WANNA",,,and an "I GET TO!" :)

and here's a couple reasons why I do it...

1. (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) The sight of a pristinely tuned arrow in flight is the thing that dreams are made of for me and it doesn't matter what type of bow they came out of...it's a beautiful thing but I wanna vomit when I see arrows corkscrewing, fishtailing and porpoising their way to who knows where where jus that little bit of extra effort?...ad it's Welcome Too Utopia" and?...

2. I'm looking forward to attending some 900rds (and maybe even some Field/Hunter/Animal rds) with this rig where you shoot 30 arrows from each distance of 60yds/50yds/40yds and in that order and nothing is so disconcerting than to start out your morning at 60yds and watch arrows that are goingto reach an altitude of about 20' come out of your bow sideways as they begin their 60yds journey but when they fly clean and you can put'em all on paper shooting fingers off-the-shelf?...it blows folks mind that you're doing it without wheels, sights, levels, stabilizers and triggers! LOL!

that's why. ;)

"Clocking nocks" and "floating the arrow". What heck you guys talking about. Been at this for 60 years and never heard of this.

Put a nock on a feathered arrow and go out and shoot.

Admire the determination...but it seems a whole lot more complicated than it needs to be.

What you're doing is called nock tuning. Lots of guys have been doing it for years. But now some companies, on their higher end shafts, do the spine alignment for you and mark it. Victory Archery does it on their VAP shafts. I've ran shafts through a spine tester to find the stiff side of the shaft. Saves a lot of time from nock tuning. And floating carbon shafts isn't as easy as floating aluminum shafts.

I've shot VAP's and other "Spine Aligned" shafting but what I don't necessarily buy into is the idea that finding the stiffest side of each shaft and clocking it against the wall is the ends all be all of radial nock tuning and for a number of reasons such as...

1. Just because you found the stiffest side of every shaft doesn't mean all stiffest sides share the same deflection value and?...

2. What if your set-up actually preforms better and is more forgiving to shoot when the arrows/nocks are spun a bit to the weak side?

and I'm of te opinion that ^^THESE^^ are things that can only be ascertained through actual shooting test results and not by a bathtub full of water or a nemch monted spine tester...they need to be tested and tuned by the actual archer and bow they are being shot off of....simulations and calculations will rarely be a true representation of real world results.

Then again?...that's JMO.

I would venture there isn't 1 in a 1000 shooters on this website that going to such lengths will help, however if it makes you happy then no one should care one way or the other.

Whoa...hold up a second here...isn't this the same forum that taught me to know what a "Rift" is and how to identify it regarding wooden arrow grains?...and I wouldn't of ever dreamed folks making wood arrows actually use digital meters to detect the moisture content of said wooden arrows and Lord knows there's been reams typed and posted regarding the importance of concentric nock and point tapers and speaking of tapers?...the topic of whether or not tapered wood shafts fly better than parallel wood shafts and here?....

Here I spin a few nocks to dial in some real clean bare shaft flight before fletching my carbons and folks are painting me as overly obsessive? LOL!

I guess my actions didn't fit some folks narratives! LOL!

crazy...ain't it? LOL! ;)

What you're doing isn't gonna tune any better and maybe not as well as broadhead/field point tuning. But rifts can put an arrow in your wrist, crooked tapers means a crooked arrow at a criticle point, and if you make shafts or live in a damp climate moisture still in the shaft means an arrow that won't stay straight. Lol. Personally I just buy my wood already dry for longbows and aluminum which is foolproof for recurves. Lol, in other words I'm lazy and do only what's needed for perfect flite.

Jinks, do what works best to improve your shooting, and have fun!

Thanks 415! :)

Between work and the Holidays creeping up?...I'll probably be sticking feathers on these shafts (off & on/here & there) for the next 2 weeks so I saw no harm in taking 60-90 minutes this morning to male sure the nocks were positioned for optimum results cause I'll probably be shooting them for years to come.

God Willing. :)

Hang in there Jinks. You got this & nothing tunes better than the actual shooting. I admire your diligence.>>>---->Ken

"I wanna vomit when I see arrows corkscrewing, fishtailing and porpoising their way to who knows where"

Especially if it is my arrow, but I shoot with others that don't seem to mind, maddening for me.

Jinks, Do you turn both CW and CCW? What observations cause you to turn the nock and by how much?

Wild Bill:

"Jinks, Do you turn both CW and CCW?"

No...I only turn them CW (just as a matter of keeping track of things)

"What observations cause you to turn the nock and by how much?"

Observation wise there's 5 possibilities...

1. Nock Left 2. Nock Right 3. Nock High 4. Nock Low

and finally the desired...

5. Bullet straight and clean

Now if I shoot 3 bare shafts and twoi fly clean but the 3rd wagged it's tail nock left?...I'll pull it and shoot it again and if it does the same thing the second time?...then I'll turn the nock 90degs CW and shoot it again and repeat that process until it flies cleanly and please realize that by the time I arrived at ths point?...the arrow recipe is already dang close tuing wise and this just puts the finishing touches on things before sealing the deal with fletching.

I spine test and nock align, so they are all the same.

I spend a lot of time tuning, and strive for perfect arrow flight.

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