So in the last few months of reading here I have gotten a feel that some of us over tune our arrows, that we are not going to know the difference of a little spine or weight change, and shooting form has more to do with it.

I combine this thought with a podcast I recently listened to, on tuning arrows.

The process was to shoot a fletched arrow through paper at 6 ft. and get knock and spine close.

Then back up to 10 yards and shoot a group of fletched arrows and check grouping, and slow motion videoing to watch paradox and shaft flight.

Third step was to strip fletching off one arrow and put a broad head on one arrow, and shoot them all at 20 yards looking for left to right variation.

I consider this pattern to be overkill myself but I am thinking of trying it with my current setup just to see how It works with my arrows.

I am confident of what will happen in the first two stages, but what results am I looking for in the final stage? I assume broadhead,bare and fletched to be grouped.

What if they are not? what is it telling me?

oz

You are looking for bareshaft and broadhead to have the same point of impact.

If they don't, then you have to sort out the conversation based on the position of the arrows to each other.

Over tuned? Is that like having too much money or too much fun? :^) What that would tell you is you missed something to start with. I don't have slow motion videoing capability. I am quite content to end up with broad head,bare shaft,& fletched grouping. >>>>-----> Ken

Well, I think that is over tuning. Why not just start with the broadhead and the fletched shaft?

I think the key for most is knowing what to do if the BH is left or right or up or down from the fletched shaft.

You can only tune as good as you can shoot. If you're splitting arrows while tuning that's a case of being a good shot and over tuning. LOL.

Bowmania

I agree, ultimately my goal is broadhead, fieldpoint, and bareshaft in same spot. I have tuned some rigs where broadhead and foeld point are right in the center, but bareshaft is waaay weak. Im not comfortable that this level of tuning gives me best penetration and forgiveness so i keep working w the bareshaft until its there too. Just what i do and not saying anyone else has to pursue it that far. I have been guilty of chasing a tune for too long of a time and my form breaks down. Solid form is imho the most critical element. Ive learned to put the bow up when i get tired.

yes u can only tune as good as you shoot,,,:)

If you're trying to tune for this hunting season, put your broadheads on and walk back tune, otherwise you may miss out on the season.

Makes me want to keep my 5.5 inch fletch

yes it amazes me the the details some get into with (trad bow) tuning. after 45 years of bow shooting I can see a good flying arrow & a poor flying one I use tie on jock set so that's easy to make minor adjustments I'm pretty set at the 150-175 point weight & I don't have a plethora of different spined shafts so I pick my shaft size point weight & usually between strike plate thickness adjustments nock set adjustments & a final broadhead & field point comparison. I do shoot bare shaft but am not limited to it with a trad bow. I bare shaft tune my compound more than trad bows but it has sights & a micro adjustment rest & I shoot big fixed blade 2 edge heads no problem from it

I love bare shaft tuning. Might take me days of shooting shafts before I'm finally satisfied. It's fun and feels great to have broadheads fly perfect.

As for tuning with a compound, many guys move the arrow rest and sights and call it good. But there is yoke tuning, tuning with the cable guard and then shimming the cams. Lots more work then tuning a stickbow.

I tune until I can't see, or hear any difference being made, then I'm done.

But, when I'm done:

I know my broadheads & field points will accurately shoot to the same spot.

I know they'll do it up close, or at long distance.

I know my arrows are flying straight, and will have the best impact energy for good penetration.

I know my arrows & fletching are not making contact anywhere with the bow once they leave the string.

And, I know I have the tune giving me the quietest shot I can get.

Sometimes it's a fairly short process to get there, and sometimes it takes a while. But, I get there, because I tune.

Rick

Yep, my vision is 20/20 I can see perfect arrow flight to the target, broadheads and all, we choose this type of hunting and shooting , that is to keep it simple, but I also understand, there’s a lot of newbies here, so choose ur shaft, choose ur brace , choose ur mocking point and have fun, stop over thinking things, with experience u will understand ......

yes sometimes it's absolutely amazing just how complicated shooting the simple stick & string bow (well) can be

To many experts out there! I figure it like this: if I can group my broadheads and field point together at 25 yards, then I’m good to go. It has always worked for me. I also take the time to shoot my broadhead at our club broadhead range.

The reason I’m interested in bare-shafting is that I know for a fact that I can put big fletchings on a broadhead-tipped arrow and they’ll group with my FPs even when they’re #15 too stiff. So the hazard is not so much that you’ll miss, but that you’ll hit with your arrow flying off-line.

Does it REALLY matter?? I dunno. I do know that I got good-enough penetration on deer with 2018s when a 2016 was called for, but if I could get my arrows to pass clean through, I’d prefer that. If I could get the clean pass-though with a bigger, wider head, I’d like that even more.

But the best thing about bare-shafting is that I’m learning a LOT about what it takes to shoot with consistency, and that translates into accuracy. At 50 feet, maybe it’s no big deal, but now that I find I can shoot foam reasonably well from the compound-shooter stake, I’m starting to believe that I can bank on solid shooting from the Trad stake, and I find that I no longer feel like my hunting range needs to be strictly limited to the Kiddie stake. Frankly, it feels pretty damn good to believe in yourself at 35 instead of 17.5.

Not saying that’s my new Hunting Range; just noticing that it’s nice to not feel strictly limited to 18 yards.

Here's the deal.

We can talk about bare shafting versus not bare shafting from now till the end of time. The simple fact remains that bigger feathers or not, if you have arrows that clear the bow cleanly and quietly, and fly to the vertical line, thet aren't too stiff.

Perhaps they are too stiff to do that without feathers, but when you put the feathers on them you changed the dynamic spine and dynamic reaction.

No different then when you cut, or add weight to a bare shaft to get ti to fly to the vertical line. It's the same thing, (altering dynamic spine) using idfferent methods.

If you want to bareshaft that's peachy keen. And you should do that if it gives you added confidence or if you enjoy dinking around with that stuff. I get on binges occassionally when I do it as well.

But it isn't the do all end all for how to get a good flying arrow from a particular bow.

Probably the BIGGEST advantage to shooting baeshafts is that it forces the archer to concentrate on form a lot more than they have to with flethed arrows. But, as soon as you put the fletching on, the need to do all that concentrating is diminished considerably.

I find it slightly amusing that bareshafting receives as much air time as it does. It's as if it's a new concept. I KNOW I've been familiar with it and tinkered with it since sometime in the '90's.

After bareshaft tuning a lot of combinations I am pretty much a one arrow tuner.

I put a Bloodline SK99 string on my 1966 Kodiak assuming it would shoot 300 spine arrows fine. One 300 spine bareshaft and one 250 and I now hunt that bow with 250. Heading out to see if I can find a moose shortly.

My shooting is suffering from lack of shooting. I trust my equipment without question.

DDave

I agree 100% in long distance practice when I shot 60# recurves I regularly practiced at 40yds & I regularly shot my compound between 50&80 however iv never killed anything past 20 with a trad bow or 50 with a compound & only a few at that

I also agree with long ditnace practice. But if it isn't 60 yards or more I don't learn anymore than I do at 30 yards. Luckily I have a place where I can shoot that far.

To me the best tuning feedback avaialble is to go out in a field and shoot an arrow at a target as far as you have room to shoot. Watch the arrow and see how it flies. If it flies in a straight line (relative to the shooters ability) then you are tuned as well as you are ever going to get.

Guys -

I'd love to know how many people here shoot well enough to tune they way they describe? Seriously, sometimes "good enough" really is good enough.

I've said this before, for most trad bowhunters, if your arrows appear to fly straight and don't stick out of the target sideways, the odds are "fine tuning" ain't gonna make a bit of difference.

Viper out.

Fine tuning may not make a difference, but it might!! I can fletch with 2" Razor feathers and get perfect broadhead flight, or fletch with three q2i archery vanes, 1.88" and get perfect broadhead flight. I don't need big 5" feathers to control my arrows. Shooting bare shafts show me if I'm having form issues day to day. If you make a bad release, grip the bow wrong, short draw, bare shafts show it. Feathered shafts, not so much.

Buglmin, very well put!

It's a hobby in and of itself for some archers.

So here's the thing, why not jsut hunt and shoot without feathers?

I mean there ahve been many civilizations that have done that over the years, it is proven, it is traditional, and it would save money.

Think you got it very well 4nolz.

Just a thought. For all that see the arrows flying true. Ever seen slow motion video of arrows shot? Can you see all that so called paradox at regular speed? Didn't think so. Can you see if the arrow is clearing the rest and side plate. How in the world can you see a little bit out of tune. I think all you can see is the arrow is not fish tailing or porpoising bad. If you can see it,it really is bad. You will never know a true tune by just watching your arrows fly. I agree though if it is good enough for you then it is good enough.Happy Thanksgiving to all. >>>>-----> Ken

I doubt anyone see’s their own set up in slow mo but when I shoot at 30, 40 yards and beyond just to watch the flight , and listen to the shaft flyin off shelf and lookin at the shelf and see no wear,,,,, yep I’m good, not to mention lots of experience with carbon arrows ,,, yep learned a lot about them ,, but can usually hit it bout perfect,, but that’s just (me) ,,, carry on ,, have fun ,, but most important,, KIS ,,, so as not to get frustrated,,, that’s why most leave this (sport) .......

Thanks for the cold shower Vipe...

2nd Viper .........

I have a friend who has targets at 20, 40 and 60 metres. When my arrows hit online at 40 metres I am good to go. And that is all about form.

I hunt moose at that range, nothing smaller.

DDave

I have done most of the methods by now. My simple method is to shoot a bare shaft with a Judo point at a 50 yard target, off in the field. You can easily see how the shaft comes out of the bow. Particularly with the video everyone has on hand these days. I always start about 3/4" above center.

A lot of people are making this too difficult, but they can have their reasons. Tuning for 5 inch parabolic helical, is different than some 2 inch fletches with a 3 inch broad head. You can take the 5" and cartwheel it by the point, and it will straighten out.

I have done most of the methods by now. My simple method is to shoot a bare shaft with a Judo point at a 50 yard target, off in the field. You can easily see how the shaft comes out of the bow. Particularly with the video everyone has on hand these days. I always start about 3/4" above center.

A lot of people are making this too difficult, but they can have their reasons. Tuning for 5 inch parabolic helical, is different than some 2 inch fletches with a 3 inch broad head. You can take the 5" and cartwheel it by the point, and it will straighten out.

Another simple method is to buy a bushel of broadheads, and just tune those and shot only broadheads out of that bow. Spend your extra archery dollars on targets and whatever else it takes to be a broadhead only shooter, or at least have a hunting bow set up for BHs that you shoot a lot.

The problem with the everything through a single hole approach if you don't shoot sights, is that it probably is not going to give you the optimal set-up with some of today's techniques: Are my bareshafts going to hit where my BHs do if I set the BHs for a 20 yard point on 3 fingers under? That might take a lot of work. :)

Thanks guys for all the input, I got what I was looking for, lots of opinions.

I have plenty of arrows that shoot well out of my bow. I have just recently switched to wood arrows. I used to shoot aluminum and had 12 years into adjusting and fine tuning an arrow set up that was good enough, after 10 year it was great.

I am now in that stage of setting up wood arrows for the same bow, I have a set that shoot good enough, quit well infact, but I am go"ing to keep fine tuning and messing with said arrow size and weight up front etc until I think I have an amazing combo.

Right now it is good enough and I am hunting with it.

BUT

we have a sign up in the weight room for all our athletes to see that says

"GOOD ENOUGH IS NEITHER"

Therefore when I have time and resources I will improve upon what is currently good enough.

I currently shoot a 60-65 lb lodgepole arrow 29" long with 125 grains up front. I can afford to lose some length and add weight, I currently 3 fletch with 4", what if I 4 fletch, what if I 2 fletch, how about 65-70 lb and longer shafts, these are the things I will mess with and see if I can come up with a combo I like better.

Like I said this if my first go with wood arrows, and I am loving it, and it is probably better than good enough, but I have time and shafts and a place to shoot so I am going to mess with it and make it the best I can for that bow.

All that said, I know I cannot shoot well enough to make a difference anyways, my form will always be the flaw. But if form is going to be the flaw I may as well eliminate all the other variables I can.

Thanks again, I cannot begin to tell you how much I have learned from this site in the last 12 years.

oz

I like your post Viper,, well said

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